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The Harrow

 
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Rau Le Creuset
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:46 am    Post subject: The Harrow Reply with quote

Hey guys, I'm writing this for the second time now because whenever I take to long to type things on this forum my computer seems to have a heart attack and the website freezes so... here we go again..

I'd like to talk about all the Insequent we've learned about and encountered in the chronicles so far and I guess I'd like to start with The Harrow.

Each Insequent chooses a name for him or herself, and these names most definitely have meaning. They seem to describe themselves and their designs.. and the word Harrow does have a few interesting meanings

1. A Harrow is a farm tool used to break up land for the farmers.
2. To Plunder or sack
3. To cause distress or torment

The Harrow's name describes him his powers and his designs perfectly. The Harrow's chosen area of study is the study of the viles and their Lore. Through this study The Harrow has learned to literally unmake these beings just like A harrow breaks land. His eyes are another great example. Through Linden SRD explains the power and control The Harrow's eyes have: "She could do nothing but observe her ruin until every particle of her being was devoured." The Harrow torments his victims, and through torment he seeks to claim Lindens instruments of power.

The designs of the Harrow almost entirely contradict his name though. The Harrow is trying to save the Earth by putting the worm of the worlds end into what is essentially limbo. Why this "almost" contradicts his name is because The Harrow doesn't do it because he is a good guy.. he does it because he wants to be named the greatest of his people.

The clothes of the insequent are also very representative of their person. The Harrow wears a fine Leather doublet inlayed with beads as black as his eyes.. and his belt buckle is in the shape of a plowshare (another instrument used to break land.). It seems as if the Harrow thinks very highly of himself and dresses accordingly, this shows through his arrogance. The beads on his doublet are not only for show as they also seem to be a catalyst for his lore.

I don't know if this happened to anyone else, but I was greatly surprised by the Harrow's death which is I think almost 2 quarters through AATE. I felt like I could almost trust the Harrow to accomplish his goal when he shook off the glamour of the lost deep.

Do you guys think the Harrow could have saved the Land despite his contradictory name and actions..? you know: can good be accomplished by evil means? The Insequent showed some faith in him.. they did send the Ardent to accompany and protect the Harrow.. as well as ward against him. The Elohim showed no faith in him.. but im over it. "we do not trust these elohim" Razz

Got anything else you'd like to say about the Harrow? Id love to hear any theories or ideas.. I'd really like to start discussing all these amazing characters.

Yeah sorry for my grammar and whateves this is gonna be my first big kinda post so..

forgive me Wink
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:03 am    Post subject: Re: The Harrow Reply with quote

Lord Rydell wrote:
Hey guys, I'm writing this for the second time now because whenever I take to long to type things on this forum my computer seems to have a heart attack and the website freezes so... here we go again..

This happens to a lot of us. The Watch's database (I think) is huge, which would make upgrading to a newer phpBB board difficult, to say the least. So, what many of us do is compose our posts in Word or Wordpad, and then paste it in to a reply box.

That way, if the post hiccups for some reason, the reply is still on the document to be reposted again.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Harrow was too overconfident to be successful in stopping the Worm; that is my feeling.

Certainly the Harrow's name fits as he wanted to plunder the ring and Staff from Linden.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not convinced that the Harrow wasn't exactly as capable as he claimed to be. He didn't strike me as unintelligent. And he admits that he had studied for a long time.

It's true that he was in over his head with the events in the Lost Deep. However, being involved in the rescue of Jeremiah was never part of his plans -- he intended to claim the ring and the Staff, deposit Linden at the end of the bridge, and be on his way.

Like many in the Chronicles, he had particular strengths. They were potent in certain circumstances, impotent in others. Left to his own devices, the Harrow seemed to plan his circumstances well, and gain much from his talent. He went wrong when he agreed to the Ardent's compromise - his greed for Linden's talismans led him to risk leaving the area of his strengths. There, Roger -- who otherwise the Harrow could withstand -- got the better of him.

So I believe that it might indeed have been possible for the Harrow to ensnare the Worm as he said that he could. He had had a long time, before we meet him, to theorize about what might be possible with ring and Staff. Still, the Rousing of the Worm might have been outside of all his plans, and he may have been as much outside of his expertise with the Worm as he was with the Lost Deep. I guess it depends on how much he anticipated the possibility of the Worm being a factor. I think, by the way he guarded information from Linden, that he may have indeed anticipated it, and in fact counted on it.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:07 pm    Post subject: The Harrow Reply with quote

the Harrow was a SUCK-er.

no, I actually liked the way SRD wrote the Harrow's character, same with Esmer; it's interesting (well, to me) that two of the characters that I found the most compelling in the LC's were men who were largely opposed to Linden's and co.'s plans .. most others all-but worshiped Linden ...

Contrast that with the first chrons, where Covenant himself was the antagonist in many, many instances; it made for a more compelling narrative imo, rather than a situation where everyone was just throwing their lot in with Linden against an array of largely-unseen enemies (including Covenant), the first chrons had Covenant himself questioning everything, sometimes with justification, other times not so much.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Esmer was compelling in how he was constantly divided within himself, I feel.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 9:16 am    Post subject: The Harrow Reply with quote

Cord Hurn wrote:
Esmer was compelling in how he was constantly divided within himself, I feel.


absolutely, but he also stood apart from the company, and was often positioned as the antagonist.

his divided nature was fascinating.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My two cents' worth on the Harrow.

I found him a pain in the arse. At the same time he was a significant element of the plot framework, developed through the first three books in The Last Chronicles, of different powers pursuing diverse agendas/interests of their own in a way that meant that too few of them were focusing on the (pardon the pun) overarching agenda of Lord Foul that was hostile to all their interests, or realising the ways in which their contention was enabling LF.

This points to the significance of Horrim Carabal's alliance with Covenant et al - the old Lurker has twigged to the fact that he is now surplus to LF's requirements and that his own continued existence requires him to make common cause with his former enemies who nonetheless share his interest in preserving and renewing the Earth.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrPaul wrote:
too few of them were focusing on the (pardon the pun) overarching agenda of Lord Foul that was hostile to all their interests, or realising the ways in which their contention was enabling LF.

(Pun appreciated.) Not sure how the Harrow's desires enabled Foul's plans.

At first, he wanted to take the Staff and the ring from Linden, and while he was at it digest her rage. He believed he was saving the world by doing this. And, in fact, had he succeeded, Linden would never have triggered the catastrophe Foul desired.

Later, after said catastrophe, he modified his plan a bit. He even added a plan to neutralize the worm. But essentially he still wanted those two things from Linden

Sure, he thwarted the Timewarden's plans. Foul and She would still be trapped, archetypal evil would still be a presence in the world.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayfriend wrote:
Still, the Rousing of the Worm might have been outside of all his plans, and he may have been as much outside of his expertise with the Worm as he was with the Lost Deep. I guess it depends on how much he anticipated the possibility of the Worm being a factor. I think, by the way he guarded information from Linden, that he may have indeed anticipated it, and in fact counted on it.


Could be. The Harrow remains in many ways a mystery.
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