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The Fool's Journey
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aliantha
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nah, you don't need a different deck, peter. Smile The traditional definitions for Tarot cards are based on imagery used in the Rider-Waite style deck. But there are a blue billion variations at this point, some of which hew pretty closely to the traditional definitions for each card, others that reinterpret the definitions, and still others that don't even use the same number of cards.

Even if you're using a traditional deck, you can find books whose definitions vary from the traditional ones. I have one book that gives good, bad, and neutral interpretations for each card. I used it for a long while, but have finally set it aside as it's pretty much useless for divination, and even for personal insight, as it kind of makes a difference whether you're supposed to be scolding yourself or cheering yourself on. Rolling Eyes

Anyway, if you're gaining insights from the Aztec-style deck you have, then you're good. Cool

Dura, it might help if you think of the Tarot as a way to tap into your subconscious. And your Chronicles-inspired list is awesome. Smile
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To say that I'm getting insights Ali would be taking things to far; I purchased the deck [IIRC] many moons ago, for what reasons I have no recall. The deck has sat in a drawer for years and never been used other than very occasionally to open and look at the pictures. I am however very interested in the Tarot in respect of it's origins and also how it fitted into the 'framework' of esoteric thought in pre-enlightenment times. It's links with the cabala, the hermetic tradition and astrology etc run deep and long in human history - a fact too often ignored or 'skimmed' in standard historical texts. It's hard to get a grip on these areas in the context of where we are today without becoming mired in the huge quantities of tripe in which the subject is awash [Wayfriend has directed me to a textbook which, if I can get it, should be the kind of work I'm after].
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a Tarot Spread called,

The Bridge of Dreams

It is based on an idea that dreams can be interpreted on three levels of depth.
The first level is where dreams are easily remembered. The second, where dream memories get fragmented, and become muddled and confused; like the shuffling off a deck of cards. The third and the deepest level is the realm of the unconscious, where dreams can't be accessed from memory.

There are 13 cards used in total: 9 interpret the dream - 3 form the bridge - 1 is the operator, (or question card).

The first card turned was the 3 of Flowers, (or Cups).
Three - A sacred number, the number of the Trinity, of heaven: the triangle that points us towards heaven, while it's base remains on the earth.
Cups - the unconscious, intuitive knowledge, beauty, symmetry, and mystery.





The next card to be turned was the Hierophant V, (rev).
[The reversed cards are shown right face up to make them easier to view.]
the Hierophant - is a spiritual or magical figure. He speaks with authority, but without forcing his knowledge on the listener, or compelling their obedience. He does not pretend the path described is always easy.

Next card on the bridge, the Moon XVIII (rev).
the Moon - mysterious and ambiguious, with diversions and obstacles. The middle card in the celestial trio.

The third and final card of the bridge, the Knave of Crosses (or Wands).
the Knave - the ideal of aesthetic beauty, the mistress of earth magic and mysteries, but inclined to be dreamy, lost in imagination and fantasy.
She represents new ideas and initiatives. But she can be wayward at times, filling us with brilliant, impracticable ideas.
Are her feet firmly on the ground? If not, does this matter?




Interpreting the cards thus far has caused me some insomnia ... the dream cards will be turned at a later date. When I've had a good night's sleep!!!

___________________________________________


To bring the post back on topic -

supposing the bridge is the one over the Mithil River, where Lena told Covenant all about her dreams of being a Lord in Revelstone? The Knave would then represent Lena, the Hierophant might represent Berek reborn, and the Moon ... full and bright, drifted into view from behind the mountains.
In this case, The Fool's Journey may very well be Lena's.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



The tarot dream therapy uncovered some good results. Something I can return to at a later time.

The middle three V cards were interesting, as was the Hanged Man.

The Wheel of Fortune card was drawn from the pack as a second operator: to readjust the rev cards and flip the triangle upright.
____________________________________________________

Back on topic.

If Lena were to be the Hermit, which hermit would she be? The Hermit of Morinmoss seems like the obvious choice!
In a dream landscape these adjustments are not only possible, but highly probable.

Consider Covenant's second journey into Morinmoss - he had a broken ankle, from when he tried and failed to protect Lena from Peitten.
LENA and ANKLE, use the same letters. Is this anagram coincidence?
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CANDLE is a good anagram too - LENA and LAND.

CANDLE FLAMES (wraiths)

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm afraid this is all beyond me, Rune. So that's why no comments on your readings.

Quote:
supposing the bridge is the one over the Mithil River, where Lena told Covenant all about her dreams of being a Lord in Revelstone? The Knave would then represent Lena, the Hierophant might represent Berek reborn, and the Moon ... full and bright, drifted into view from behind the mountains.
In this case, The Fool's Journey may very well be Lena's.

Are you making correspondences based on the external attributes, or on the deeper meanings? Is Covenant really a Hierophant at this early time?

To me, Heirophant is a person who has discarded childish ideas that society is a joke or a rigged system, and comes to understand what's really important about it. He's passed the angry young man stage, and is ready to join the common effort as a contributing member.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayfriend wrote:
Are you making correspondences based on ___ external attributes,
... ?
Yes.

To be honest, I wasn't expecting a response. So my apologies if using your thread in this way has caused you any offence.
With respect, that's why I used the breakline.

___________________________________________

wayfriend wrote:


Quote:
supposing the bridge is the one over the Mithil River, where Lena told Covenant all about her dreams of being a Lord in Revelstone? The Knave would then represent Lena, the Hierophant might represent Berek reborn, and the Moon ... full and bright, drifted into view from behind the mountains.
In this case, The Fool's Journey may very well be Lena's.

Is Covenant really a Hierophant at this early time?


I thought up a spread based on the interpretation of dreams, laid out the cards, then gave my impression of the first four that were turned. The scene from Lord Foul's Bane, with Covenant and Lena crossing the Mithil bridge, was the impression that came to mind.
Therefore, yes the Hierophant has to be Covenant - or how Lena sees Covenant and her attitude towards him - as Berek Halfhand reborn.

Isn't it interesting how we use whatever means at our disposal to make sense of cryptic things. In all these years since first reading the chronicles I had never considered Lena as Covenant's rescuer, in the cave of the old brown women of Morinmoss. Thinking in terms of anagrams tells a differant and clearer story to what I had previously puzzled over.

In conclusion, this proves Covenant never actually raped Lena. It was really all a wet dream. Which makes The Illearth War kinda strange. Covenant always stressed the fact that Elena had never even existed. I believe him.
As I said - in a dream landscape these things are not only possible, but highly probable.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The thing about the Fool's Journey, as it seems to me, is that the major arcana are the same person, at different stages of growth and self-awareness.

Quote:
The Fool's Journey is a metaphor for the journey through life. Each major arcana card stands for a stage on that journey - an experience that a person must incorporate to realize his wholeness.

That's why I would see all cards in terms of Covenant (and not Lena or any other characters.)
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayfriend wrote:
The thing about the Fool's Journey, as it seems to me, is that the major arcana are the same person, at different stages of growth and self-awareness.

Quote:
The Fool's Journey is a metaphor for the journey through life. Each major arcana card stands for a stage on that journey - an experience that a person must incorporate to realize his wholeness.

That's why I would see all cards in terms of Covenant (and not Lena or any other characters.)


I wouldn't disagree with any of that. However, I'm not much of a traditionalist. (My choice of deck should reflect this.) I feel that fixed rules and set outcomes can only restrict the meaning in the cards. After all, "Arcana" does mean something that is hidden.

Instead of applying meaning to the cards, I try to let the cards reveal their meaning to me. To do this I first look for patterns, and common denominators; anything obvious and glaring, poetic. There may even be subtle narratives between the characters within the pictures.
Only then will I analyse the traditional meanings of the individual cards - and only then in order to aid with further interpretation.

A year or two ago I used a tarot website forum to help with learning how to read the cards. But my disregard for traditionalism - I wished to invent tarot games and tarot spells - had caused me no end of trouble. I got a few angry PM's, and if it hadn't been online I could swear I would've been tarred and feathered.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I deleted the last post made because it was trying to run before it could walk. There are still plenty of things to investigate before new tarot spreads are invented.

wayfriend wrote:
The thing about the Fool's Journey, as it seems to me, is that the major arcana are the same person, at different stages of growth and self-awareness.

Quote:
The Fool's Journey is a metaphor for the journey through life. Each major arcana card stands for a stage on that journey - an experience that a person must incorporate to realize his wholeness.

That's why I would see all cards in terms of Covenant (and not Lena or any other characters.)


Seeing all cards as only Covenant may be missing out on a much broader view and interpretation. I'm thinking of the Jungian psychology of archetypes and the anima/animus.

My own interests in this thread are along those lines involving an idea of a collective conscious as opposed to a Jungian collective unconscious. The difference, I believe, is a Donaldson psychology of understanding fundemental principles of mind-meld.

A good example is when considering subpersonalities as a function of inner voice. That voice is of course one's own mental chatter. But nurturing this concept could well be the bridging factor for a more deeper mental communication - the royal road to mind-melding!

(BTW, I like the SRD term mind-meld rather than telepathy. The latter sounding kinda creepy, don't you think!)
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rune wrote:
(BTW, I like the SRD term mind-meld rather than telepathy. The latter sounding kinda creepy, don't you think!)


I do as well, Rune, because "telepathy" sounds like unconsented invasion.
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