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the Haruchai as Masters

 
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:07 am    Post subject: the Haruchai as Masters Reply with quote

We all know that the Haruchai are usually those who fight on TC's and Lords' side without question,because they've never been fit for leadership. In the last chronicles,however,they became the Masters in order to "prevent the Earthpower from being misused". I think there's more to it than they said,though. As they can't use the Earthpower,they might even be afraid of those who can. So if they can't use it,no-one will.
What do you think about it?
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Their mastery both contradicts and affirms the task that TC gives the Haruchai at the end of 'Those who part' chapeter 12 of WGW.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IN the first Chronicles...they saw how their vow could be Corrupted...and their vow was a thing of Earthpower.

IN the Second chrons...they saw how their strength could be manipulated by the Sunbane-a perversion of Earthpower.

I can't blame them for not wanting anyone to use any kind of Earthpower ever...they are not only scarred of what it might do to the Land...they are scarred of what it might do to themselves.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How can the Haruchai not believe in the Earths Power too be good since they are "supposed to remember everything". They have seen it, at some some certain cases from the first person. But then some of the Bguards have never made it back to tell the tale.
At the moment I am (re Runes of) a little bit p***** off with them.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

drew wrote:
IN the first Chronicles...they saw how their vow could be Corrupted...and their vow was a thing of Earthpower.

IN the Second chrons...they saw how their strength could be manipulated by the Sunbane-a perversion of Earthpower.

I can't blame them for not wanting anyone to use any kind of Earthpower ever...they are not only scarred of what it might do to the Land...they are scarred of what it might do to themselves.


By becoming masters they are what they despise...corrupt power.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vraith wrote:
drew wrote:
IN the first Chronicles...they saw how their vow could be Corrupted...and their vow was a thing of Earthpower.

IN the Second chrons...they saw how their strength could be manipulated by the Sunbane-a perversion of Earthpower.

I can't blame them for not wanting anyone to use any kind of Earthpower ever...they are not only scarred of what it might do to the Land...they are scarred of what it might do to themselves.


By becoming masters they are what they despise...corrupt power.


Nope still doesnt make sense, they remember!!! what the goodness is. Maybe I have to read again, well not until its all finished.
Thanks for the insights tho.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They have come to the conclusion that using Earthpower will lead to Corruption, regardless of how pure or noble the intentions might be.

Strangely enough, this means that they would oppose even Forestals, were they still to exist.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
They have come to the conclusion that using Earthpower will lead to Corruption, regardless of how pure or noble the intentions might be.

Strangely enough, this means that they would oppose even Forestals, were they still to exist.


On the first: exactly. They DO remember the "goodness," but in the context that no matter how "good," the end is corruption. And they fail to see that without that power wielded for good, the corruption happens anyway, and more easily. [without the Lords...even including Kevin...the entirety of the land would have been wasteland long ago].

On the second...perhaps, it's an interesting thought...but perhaps not, because like the Ranyhyn, the Forestals power is part of what they are in themselves, not a tool/lore they learn to wield. I think. Even Hile doesn't "learn" to be one so much as he is transformed into one.
Still....you could be right.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vraith wrote:
On the second...perhaps, it's an interesting thought...but perhaps not, because like the Ranyhyn, the Forestals power is part of what they are in themselves, not a tool/lore they learn to wield. I think. Even Hile doesn't "learn" to be one so much as he is transformed into one.


I see what you mean. Lords learn lore and through this wield power whereas Forestals are power. That makes all the difference.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:31 am    Post subject: the Haruchai as Masters Reply with quote

According to their brutal logic, they can accept ruin at the hands of Lord Foul, made easier by the people of the Land being bereft of Earthpower. What they can't accept is ruin at the hands of their friends, people of the land using Earthpower and then succumbing to despair. The former is defeat under a foe, and the latter is grief over a friend.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, the Haruchai are definitely not suited to rule. If this new series has shown me anything, it's that as a group they seem to be deaf to logic and arrogant in the extreme- after their lengthy catalog of failures in the past, they should know by now that they are the LAST people qualified to make these kinds of decisions for the people of the Land, if anyone has the right, which they don't. It's too bad the Land has no adage like "don't throw the baby out with the bathwater", because that's exactly what they're doing.

I love the Haruchai, they are fascinating and interesting to read about, but sometimes I want to shake them until their dispassionate teeth rattle. Stave is the one exception.

Geez, look at their attempts to beat anything with main physical force the first time they run into it...
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vraith wrote:
Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
They have come to the conclusion that using Earthpower will lead to Corruption, regardless of how pure or noble the intentions might be.

Strangely enough, this means that they would oppose even Forestals, were they still to exist.


On the first: exactly. They DO remember the "goodness," but in the context that no matter how "good," the end is corruption. And they fail to see that without that power wielded for good, the corruption happens anyway, and more easily. [without the Lords...even including Kevin...the entirety of the land would have been wasteland long ago].

On the second...perhaps, it's an interesting thought...but perhaps not, because like the Ranyhyn, the Forestals power is part of what they are in themselves, not a tool/lore they learn to wield. I think. Even Hile doesn't "learn" to be one so much as he is transformed into one.
Still....you could be right.
No difference between the Forestals being Earthpower Incarnate and Anele's inbred Earthpower (Which comes from a Forestal bringing him back to life as a Fetus). And they don't like Anele roaming around free. So, if there were still Forestals, and the Haruchai could, I'd imagine they would try to imprison the Forestals as well.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sindatur wrote:
Vraith wrote:
Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
They have come to the conclusion that using Earthpower will lead to Corruption, regardless of how pure or noble the intentions might be.

Strangely enough, this means that they would oppose even Forestals, were they still to exist.


On the first: exactly. They DO remember the "goodness," but in the context that no matter how "good," the end is corruption. And they fail to see that without that power wielded for good, the corruption happens anyway, and more easily. [without the Lords...even including Kevin...the entirety of the land would have been wasteland long ago].

On the second...perhaps, it's an interesting thought...but perhaps not, because like the Ranyhyn, the Forestals power is part of what they are in themselves, not a tool/lore they learn to wield. I think. Even Hile doesn't "learn" to be one so much as he is transformed into one.
Still....you could be right.
No difference between the Forestals being Earthpower Incarnate and Anele's inbred Earthpower (Which comes from a Forestal bringing him back to life as a Fetus). And they don't like Anele roaming around free. So, if there were still Forestals, and the Haruchai could, I'd imagine they would try to imprison the Forestals as well.

That's a good point/strong argument...and I'm sure they would if the Forestals went wandering about trying to teach/recruit/fix things. But I think it makes a difference that Anele was "made" to it as a side effect...and it was a breaking of Law that enabled it.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:07 pm    Post subject: Re: the Haruchai as Masters Reply with quote

rbailey003 wrote:
According to their brutal logic, they can accept ruin at the hands of Lord Foul, made easier by the people of the Land being bereft of Earthpower. What they can't accept is ruin at the hands of their friends, people of the land using Earthpower and then succumbing to despair. The former is defeat under a foe, and the latter is grief over a friend.


Thanks rbailey003, this is a great insight! Good Post

The Haruchai understand and thus can manage power, even if it is to lose. What they can't understand and handle is the power of their passion. It masters them at every turn. Brilliant!

u.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vraith wrote:
sindatur wrote:
Vraith wrote:
Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
They have come to the conclusion that using Earthpower will lead to Corruption, regardless of how pure or noble the intentions might be.

Strangely enough, this means that they would oppose even Forestals, were they still to exist.


On the first: exactly. They DO remember the "goodness," but in the context that no matter how "good," the end is corruption. And they fail to see that without that power wielded for good, the corruption happens anyway, and more easily. [without the Lords...even including Kevin...the entirety of the land would have been wasteland long ago].

On the second...perhaps, it's an interesting thought...but perhaps not, because like the Ranyhyn, the Forestals power is part of what they are in themselves, not a tool/lore they learn to wield. I think. Even Hile doesn't "learn" to be one so much as he is transformed into one.
Still....you could be right.
No difference between the Forestals being Earthpower Incarnate and Anele's inbred Earthpower (Which comes from a Forestal bringing him back to life as a Fetus). And they don't like Anele roaming around free. So, if there were still Forestals, and the Haruchai could, I'd imagine they would try to imprison the Forestals as well.

That's a good point/strong argument...and I'm sure they would if the Forestals went wandering about trying to teach/recruit/fix things. But I think it makes a difference that Anele was "made" to it as a side effect...and it was a breaking of Law that enabled it.


Anele isn't attempting any kind of fixing, recruiting or teaching. He's just trying to find his Staff of Law. Although no breaking of Law directly connected Hile Troy too was made into a Forestal
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The way the Haruchai overreach in their conclusions mirrors the way they have continuously overreacted (such as their responding to Kevin's generosity by swearing the Vow). They never seem to truly know what they do when they make their extravagant decisions and judgments. Poor buggers. Crying or Very sad
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