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DT7: The Dark Tower

 
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:56 pm    Post subject: DT7: The Dark Tower Reply with quote

Over 300 pages in, and I'm struggling to keep going. Not much has happened after Father C's final scene in the restaurant. I was extremely disappointed to learn that Flagg's entire purpose in this series was to be spider food. Why the hell was he even a character??? He did nothing after setting Roland on this path by seducing Roland's mom.

They have just ended their 100 page break in the cave listening to audio tapes. Apparently, that was an important thing to do at the end of the world. I think it was just to catch the readers up on Ted's story. Whatever.

I'm holding out hope for a good ending, but the beginning of the end is a snoozefest.
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Meaning is created internally by each individual in each specific life: any attempt at *meaning* which relies on some kind of external superstructure (God, Satan, the Creator, the Worm, whatever) for its substance misses the point (I mean the point of my story). -SRD

Remain faithful to the earth, my brothers, with the power of your virtue. Let your gift-giving love and your knowledge serve the meaning of the earth ... Do not let them fly away from earthly things and beat with their wings against eternal walls. Alas, there has always been so much virtue that has flown away. Lead back to the earth the virtue that flew away, as I do-back to the body, back to life, that it may give the earth a meaning, a human meaning. -Nietzsche
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't read it since it was released (and that should tell you something), but that's how I remember it too. It seemed really contrived. As I remember it, there is one unbelievably well-written and emotional moment in that book, and a whole lotta "meh".
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flagg's death (and revealed story arc) was a hell of a disappointment.

I actually enjoyed the book more the second time I read it.

But I always wonder what it would have been like if King hadn't had that accident. I think book 6 and 7 really suffered for it.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I listened to the entire series. Books on tape from Audible.

I got teary when we found out what happened to Oy ... Sad

All-in-all I enjoyed it. Smile
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh shit, something happens to Oy?!? Noooo .....


No seriously, I don't give a crap. Laughing Not a spoiler to me. [This isn't to demean your perspective, Creator. I'm just being silly. It's good to see some other people in this discussion. Thanks for participating.]

Now watch ... the Oy scene might be incredibly emotional and I'll have to admit I was an asshole for being dismissive. Laughing

Actually, I'd welcome that!
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Meaning is created internally by each individual in each specific life: any attempt at *meaning* which relies on some kind of external superstructure (God, Satan, the Creator, the Worm, whatever) for its substance misses the point (I mean the point of my story). -SRD

Remain faithful to the earth, my brothers, with the power of your virtue. Let your gift-giving love and your knowledge serve the meaning of the earth ... Do not let them fly away from earthly things and beat with their wings against eternal walls. Alas, there has always been so much virtue that has flown away. Lead back to the earth the virtue that flew away, as I do-back to the body, back to life, that it may give the earth a meaning, a human meaning. -Nietzsche
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No worries Smile
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This book is finally getting better ... after about 500 pages. The deaths of Jake and Eddie were sad, as one would expect. If King hadn't told us a couple of books ago that this was going to happen, it might have been even sadder. (It really bugs me that he does that.)

It's interesting that King considers Insomnia to be the book most closely related to DT (or at least his characters claim this). I would have said Salem's Lot, given Father Callahan's contribution to the story. I guess I'll see what he has in mind later on. Roland just received the book.
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Meaning is created internally by each individual in each specific life: any attempt at *meaning* which relies on some kind of external superstructure (God, Satan, the Creator, the Worm, whatever) for its substance misses the point (I mean the point of my story). -SRD

Remain faithful to the earth, my brothers, with the power of your virtue. Let your gift-giving love and your knowledge serve the meaning of the earth ... Do not let them fly away from earthly things and beat with their wings against eternal walls. Alas, there has always been so much virtue that has flown away. Lead back to the earth the virtue that flew away, as I do-back to the body, back to life, that it may give the earth a meaning, a human meaning. -Nietzsche
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarathustra wrote:
(It really bugs me that he does that.)


Yeah...it annoys the hell out of me too. But something even more annoying to me is coming up. Laughing

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^what he said^
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm getting real close to the end. I just started the last section, The Scarlet Fields of Can'-Ka No Rey. I'm starting to feel a little like Roland and Susannah, that it's too soon, don't want it to end. They've just decided to walk the last 100 miles to prepare themselves for the end of their journey. (Reminds me a little of the last trek in The Stand.)

I like this section of the book, R&S's last journey. The trek through the Badlands to the castle to the White Lands felt vaguely like the first book of this series, including magical foes and temptations.

I wonder if the Dandelo deus ex machina is what bothered you guys, of if there's something even worse coming (don't tell me). Why couldn't Eddie warn Suse more explicitly? Why an anagram? She didn't even need this warning, because she could hear Roland choking in the next room while King had her playing word games. Pointless. This is a worse case of manufactured ignorance than anything SRD ever wrote. Almost childish in its transparency.

Other than that, I'm actually enjoying the read, picking up my pace. I'll be sad when it's over.
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Meaning is created internally by each individual in each specific life: any attempt at *meaning* which relies on some kind of external superstructure (God, Satan, the Creator, the Worm, whatever) for its substance misses the point (I mean the point of my story). -SRD

Remain faithful to the earth, my brothers, with the power of your virtue. Let your gift-giving love and your knowledge serve the meaning of the earth ... Do not let them fly away from earthly things and beat with their wings against eternal walls. Alas, there has always been so much virtue that has flown away. Lead back to the earth the virtue that flew away, as I do-back to the body, back to life, that it may give the earth a meaning, a human meaning. -Nietzsche
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Creator wrote:
I got teary when we found out what happened to Oy ... Sad
Though I didn't get teary, it was indeed sad. I am happy to report I was wrong about that scene and shouldn't have been dismissive. Little Oy deserves better.
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Meaning is created internally by each individual in each specific life: any attempt at *meaning* which relies on some kind of external superstructure (God, Satan, the Creator, the Worm, whatever) for its substance misses the point (I mean the point of my story). -SRD

Remain faithful to the earth, my brothers, with the power of your virtue. Let your gift-giving love and your knowledge serve the meaning of the earth ... Do not let them fly away from earthly things and beat with their wings against eternal walls. Alas, there has always been so much virtue that has flown away. Lead back to the earth the virtue that flew away, as I do-back to the body, back to life, that it may give the earth a meaning, a human meaning. -Nietzsche
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Read on. Very Happy

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just finished. I haven't read others' opinions yet, but I get the sense that there is some disappointment regarding the ending. I liked it. "Ka is a wheel," after all. I feel like King has been telling us the ending for a long time. This is truly the Journey of All Journeys, where the destination isn't as important as how you get there. (Seriously, how Roland gets there determines whether he'll keep repeating.)

It reminds me a little of reincarnation, and that's the only part that bugs me. But other than that, it's true that life is cyclic. We don't get the opportunity to repeat everything ourselves, but our children do. They are the next cycle, the chance to 'get it right this time.' As a race, we go through the same universal struggles over and over again. Small differences (like picking up the horn this time) add up to make a world of difference.

King has definitely written worse endings. I'm at peace with this one.


[Edited to add: I just read the thread where everyone gives their impression of the end. I forgot to talk about Eddie/Suse/Jake. This part didn't faze me at all. I accepted it without question. "There are other worlds than these" has been part of the mythology since the beginning. Though King didn't make himself the Gan of this universe, he really is. This was his gift to these characters, kind of like the gift that the Lost characters gave themselves in creating the Sideways universe where they could meet one last time before passing into the Light. Sure, these characters are fictional, but King loved them enough to give them a happy ending ... which in way makes them more than merely fictional. We'd already crossed the boundary between reality/fiction a long time ago in this series. The fact that they were fictions was explicit in the work itself. This doesn't cheapen their deaths, their sacrifices--which were meaningless anyway, since they're not real. This celebrates the humanity that these bits of imagination can miraculously possess, the love we can feel for them despite their nonexistence. The key is to view their 'happy ending' as not a gift to the readers (which would be sappy, patronizing, etc.), but a gift to those characters themselves. That's how real they are to King, and (hopefully) to his readers. You want them to be happy even though they're not real.

The inclusion of King in his own story--turning a real person into a fictional character--is just the flipside of this. It's what makes the explication of their existence as fictional characters possible within the story. It's not a gimmick unto itself [e.g. "Hey, I'm the writer and I'm in my own story!"] but rather the only way to make the fictional nature of his characters--and their profoundly 'real' effect on us nonetheless--explicit. That couldn't have happened without King being mentioned in the story.

It's popular for people to express hate for "... and it was all a dream" type of endings, but if you think about it, this is that ACTUAL end of every single story ever told. They *are* all dreams. Why does that upset people? I think if we thought about that for a bit, it might lead to some profound answers ...]
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Meaning is created internally by each individual in each specific life: any attempt at *meaning* which relies on some kind of external superstructure (God, Satan, the Creator, the Worm, whatever) for its substance misses the point (I mean the point of my story). -SRD

Remain faithful to the earth, my brothers, with the power of your virtue. Let your gift-giving love and your knowledge serve the meaning of the earth ... Do not let them fly away from earthly things and beat with their wings against eternal walls. Alas, there has always been so much virtue that has flown away. Lead back to the earth the virtue that flew away, as I do-back to the body, back to life, that it may give the earth a meaning, a human meaning. -Nietzsche
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was good with the end (in the end) but it took me a while to reconcile it to myself.

The difference demonstrated in picking up the horn is how the upcoming film(s)(?) is justifying the changes they're making...Roland apparently starts the film with the horn. So it's like DT V2.

King in the story...I was fine with that. The GF hated it. She still hates it. Laughing She can barely mention King without complaining about it. Very Happy

It all worked for me (eventually), but I hated the Jake/Eddie/Suzannah thing. My view is sorta the opposite. The happy ending for them fictionalises things. It takes away from the reality of the story and characters for me in a way that King being in it didn't.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has your GF ever read Breakfast of Champions? King isn't the first author to insert himself into his fiction.

I read the movie thread. I think it's a good idea to have him with the horn and get a different ending. That will be awesome. I wonder how involved King is in the screenplay?
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Meaning is created internally by each individual in each specific life: any attempt at *meaning* which relies on some kind of external superstructure (God, Satan, the Creator, the Worm, whatever) for its substance misses the point (I mean the point of my story). -SRD

Remain faithful to the earth, my brothers, with the power of your virtue. Let your gift-giving love and your knowledge serve the meaning of the earth ... Do not let them fly away from earthly things and beat with their wings against eternal walls. Alas, there has always been so much virtue that has flown away. Lead back to the earth the virtue that flew away, as I do-back to the body, back to life, that it may give the earth a meaning, a human meaning. -Nietzsche
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I doubt it, although she enjoyed Slaughterhouse 5. (She only reads sci-fi if it's something I already have, and I don't have that one.) PK Dick sorta does it as well in a sense, (Radio Free Albemuth).

Not knowing anything much about the authors might make a difference though. In a way, King has a "real" existence that people are aware of, whereas many authors are almost as nebulous as their stories.

Dunno how I feel about the movie...on the one hand, feels almost like cheating. On the other, it makes the inevitable changes a bit more acceptable. But I'm not happy about who they cast for Roland.

--A
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