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Lord Foul's Bane Chapters 5 & 6
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Zal Remmos
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 10:39 pm    Post subject: Planting Banes Reply with quote

pitchwife wrote:


I don't remember who was responsible for planting banes in the earth, I think it is mentioned in the tale of creation, wasn't it Foul?

-pitch


"Then he understood or remembered. Perhaps he found Despite itself beside him, misguiding his hand. Or perhaps he saw the harm in himself. It does not matter. He became outraged with grief and torn pride. In his fury he wrestled with Despite, either within him or without, and in his fury he cast the Despiser down, out of the infinity of the cosmos onto the Earth"

So I guess that means either Foul or the Creator himself did...
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My take about Atiaran was always that Trell was not her true love. He loved her and wanted to marry her but she wanted instead to become one of the lords and felt confined in Mithil Stonedown. I think she was on the way to achieving her goal when she had an affair with someone in the Loresraat. Whoever he was didn't want to marry her and so she became bitter with the whole Lords' institution and returned to her home and married Trell instead.

This give rise to the possibility that Lena is not Trell's daughter, paralleling Elena's life (with Triok as the stepfather this time). But of course it's not necessary for a story of the spurned Atiaran, it's just a possible extra layer.

I certainly don't believe the connection between Covenant and this family is incidental. They seem idyllic on the surface, but there's hidden depths here. Lena's immediate clinging to Covenant the passing outsider imply that her home life isn't as great as all that, and the darkness surrounding Trell's theurgies hint at the unhappiness and anger he hides in his heart.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Huh? I've never seen anything to suggest this interpretation... Everything I remember reading said that Atiaran just wasn't able to step into her power and because she didn't feel worthy, she gave up and came home.

I will agree that her true passion might have been to become a Lord (Lena of course feels the same way: "I don't want to marry a cattleherd, I want to experience bigger things") but nowhere do I see anything about affairs or unhappy home life. Lena "clings" to Covenant because he represents this bigger, more noble world.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, the fact that Attiaran managed to figure out how and then actually did summon someone from our world means to me that she was powerful enough.

Why did she leave the Loresraat? Why is she bitter and suspicious about them? I think there's a quote in Andalain (in LFB) where she says learning about LF frightened her too badly but does it adequately explain everything about her?
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Atirian left her studies because she felt inadequate to the task, she always lived with a certain amount of shame because of it, and while she loved Trell, his skill at his own craft, humbled her.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that Atiaran had ambitions larger than the Mithil, at least originally. But I don't think these ambitions extended to falsifying her relationship with her husband and family. She loved Trell. And Lena was hers.

She left the Loresraat because she got scared of her enemy. She probably loved the idea of learning Law and lore, but found that the darker aspects exceeded her capacities.

It didn't take *too* much power to summon someone. Remember, Triock and Foamfollower did it with a mere lomillialor rod.

Furthermore, I belive that Atiaran was tapping into the same power that later Trell and Mhoram discovered, the power that energized the Ritual of Desecration, the power of unrestrained passion brought on by her despair.

In The Illearth War was wrote:
"Later, I learned what had happened. A young student at the Loresraat had an inspiration about a piece of the Second Ward he was working on. All this was about five years ago. He thought he had figured out how to get help for the Land - how to summon you, actually. He wanted to try it, but the Lorewardens' refused to let him. Too dangerous. They took his idea to study, and sent to Revelstone for a Lord to help them decide how to test his theory.

"Well, he didn't want to wait. He left the Loresraat. and climbed a few miles up into the western hills of Trothgard until he thought he was far enough away to work in peace. Then he started the ritual. Somehow, the Lorewardens felt the power he was using, and went after him. But they were too late. He succeeded - in a manner of speaking. When he was done, I was lying there on the grass, and he - He had burned himself to death. Some of the Lorewardens think he caught the fire that should have killed me."

The similarities between Atiaran's form of suicide and the Ritual of Desecration are there to see.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shadowbinding shoe wrote:
Why did she leave the Loresraat? Why is she bitter and suspicious about them? I think there's a quote in Andalain (in LFB) where she says learning about LF frightened her too badly but does it adequately explain everything about her?

Guess I don't see it that way. Learning in detail about an immortal being whose power and malice are essentially limitless might scare any of us... It's like learning about yourself, wanting to grow and become a better person, but then discovering the shadow side of our ego. Most people have a lot of trouble facing that.

I see her bitterness as directed at herself, not the Loresraat.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Furthermore, I belive that Atiaran was tapping into the same power that later Trell and Mhoram discovered, the power that energized the Ritual of Desecration, the power of unrestrained passion brought on by her despair.


This is the point that I was going to make, but Wayfriend said it better.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't mean to imply that she didn't love Trell and Lena, but she and Lena were always so reverent towards Trell's skill that it makes me believe that to her, it must have, at least to some extent, caused the inadequacies she felt, to resurface.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Concerning this first appearance of Atiaran, I'm struck by the fact that she was already conflicted and tormented before Thomas Covenant ever came into her life.

In Chapter 6 of Lord Fouls Bane was wrote:
He found that another woman had joined Lena. As he returned, he heard Lena say, "He says he knows nothing of us." Then the other woman looked at him, and guessed immediately that she was Atiaran. The leaf pattern of the shoulders of her long brown robe seemed to be a kind of family emblem; he did not need such hints to see the long familiarity in the way the older woman touched Lena's shoulder, or the similarities in their posture. But where Lena was fresh and slim of line, full of unbroken newness, Atiaran appeared complex, almost self-contradictory. Her soft surface, her full figure, she carried as if it were a hindrance to the hard strength of experience within her, as if she lived with her body on the basis of an old and difficult truce. And her face bore the signs of that truce; her forehead seemed prematurely lined and her deep spacious eyes appeared to open inward on a weary battleground of doubts and uneasy reconciliations. Looking at her over the stone table, Covenant received a double impression of a frowning concern--the result of knowing and fearing more than other people realized--and an absent beauty that would rekindle in her face if only she would smile.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In Chapter 6 of Lord Foul's Bane was wrote:
After a brief hesitation, the older woman touched her heart and raised her hand toward Covenant as Trell had done. "Hail, guest, and welcome. I am Atiaran Trell-mate. I have spoken with Trell, and with Lena my daughter--you need no introduction to me, Thomas Covenant. Be comfortable in our home."

Remembering his manners--and his new determination--Covenant responded, "I'm honored."

Atiaran bowed slightly. "Accepting that which is offered honors the giver. And courtesy is always welcome." Then she seemed to hesitate again, uncertain of how to proceed. Covenant watched the return of old conflicts to her eyes, thinking that gaze would have an extraordinary power if it were not so inward. But she reached her decision soon, and said, "It is not the custom of our people to worry a guest with hard questions before eating. But the food is not ready"--she glanced at Lena--"and you are strange to me, Thomas Covenant, strange and disquieting. I would talk with you if I may, while Lena prepares what food we have. You seem to bear a need that should not wait."

Covenant shrugged noncommittally. He felt a twinge of anxiety at the thought of her questions, and braced himself to try to answer them without losing his new balance.

In the pause, Lena began moving around the room. She went to the shelves to get plates and bowls for the table, and prepared some dishes on a slab of stone heated from underneath by a tray of graveling. She turned her eyes toward Covenant often as she moved, but he did not always notice. Atiaran compelled his attention.

At first, she murmured uncertainly, "I hardly know where to begin. It has been so long, and I learned so little of what the Lords know. But what I have must be enough. No one here can take my place." She straightened her shoulders. "May I see your hands?"

Remembering Lena's initial reaction to him, Covenant held up his right hand.

Atiaran moved around the table until she was close enough to touch him, but did not. Instead, she searched his face. "Halfhand. It is as Trell said. And some say that Berek Earthfriend, Heartthew and Lord-Fatherer, will return to the Land when there is need. Do you know these things?"

Covenant answered gruffly, "No."

Still looking into his face, Atiaran said, "Your other hand?"

Puzzled, he raised his left. She dropped her eyes to it.

When she saw it, she gasped, then bit her lip and stepped back. For an instant, she seemed inexplicably terrified. But she mastered herself, and asked with only a low tremble in her voice, "What metal is that ring?"

"What? This?" Her reaction startled Covenant, and in his surprise he gaped at a complicated memory of Joan saying, With this ring I thee wed, and the old ocher-robed beggar replying, Be true, be true. Darkness threatened him. He heard himself answer as if he were someone else, someone who had nothing to do with leprosy and divorce, "It's white gold."

Atiaran groaned, clamped her hands over her temples as if she were in pain. But again she brought herself under control, and a bleak courage came into her eyes. "I alone," she said, "I alone in Mithil Stonedown know the meaning of this. Even Trell has not this knowledge. And I know too little. Answer, Thomas Covenant--is it true?"

I should've thrown it away, he muttered bitterly. A leper's got no right to be sentimental.


From the first time I met her in this scene, I found myself feeling that Atiaran seemed more real to me than anyone we have met in the Land so far, for her complex personality reminded me of people I've known in life. Drool Rockworm, Lord Foul, Lena, and Trell, at this point in the story seemed to have simple personalities compared to Atiaran:

Her soft surface, her full figure, she carried as if it were a hindrance to the hard strength of experience within her, as if she lived with her body on the basis of an old and difficult truce. And her face bore the signs of that truce; her forehead seemed prematurely lined and her deep spacious eyes appeared to open inward on a weary battleground of doubts and uneasy reconciliations.

Covenant watched the return of old conflicts to her eyes, thinking that gaze would have an extraordinary power if it were not so inward.

But again she brought herself under control, and a bleak courage came into her eyes.
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