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States Petitioning for Secession
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If at first you do not succeed, try again, try again, and try again for a third time. This will be their third attempt to get a resolution onto the California ballot, this time aiming to prompt California to begin a Constitutional Convention to rewrite the entire Constitution and make certain that States are given the right to leave the United States if they so desire.

You have seen those bratty children in grocery stores or malls. You know the ones I mean--the ones who throw a tantrum until they get what they want or, failing that, make certain that everyone around them is miserable. This is how I view the CalExit folks--"wah! we can't get our way so we want to take our marbles and go home! wah!".

The first thing that would happen if California did manage to secede is that Democrats would never win a Presidential election again--when 270 is needed to win losing 55 is an insurmountable obstacle. Of course, the number wouldn't be 270 any more but 215...still, all those blue votes lost would kill the Democrat Party.

I would actually donate time and money to help them leave, if that is what they really want. I would merely be doing be neighborly duty, after all.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They are at it again--there is another CalExit ballot proposal which has been approved by the State so they are out collecting signatures, hoping to get onto the ballot.

After reconsidering for a while, I totally support California seceding from the United States. Good riddance and don't let the door hit you on the ass on your way out. This would prompt a mass exit--other lesser blue States would secede with California, meaning they could form their own new nation which I will enjoy watching self-implode as they tax their citizens into oblivion.

Failing that, I also support California breaking into multiple States as this will end the automatic 55 Electoral Votes that Democrats currently enjoy.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
They are at it again--there is another CalExit ballot proposal which has been approved by the State so they are out collecting signatures, hoping to get onto the ballot.

After reconsidering for a while, I totally support California seceding from the United States. Good riddance and don't let the door hit you on the ass on your way out. This would prompt a mass exit--other lesser blue States would secede with California, meaning they could form their own new nation which I will enjoy watching self-implode as they tax their citizens into oblivion.

Failing that, I also support California breaking into multiple States as this will end the automatic 55 Electoral Votes that Democrats currently enjoy.


So how do you feel about the Texas movements? All the polls show Texas citizens support secession AT LEAST as much as Californians do...
Would you support their ballot measures?---OH, that's right, Texans can't create ballot measures...only the gov't can.
I suspect there are at least as many people who'd like to see Texas go as there are Cali-haters.
[[BTW, Cali went Republican for Pres for like 40 years or something. Last time for Bush 1, I believe. Texas went for Carter in 76, I think...
Cali switched to a non-partisan method of drawing districts...
Texas draws racist Rep. ones, on purpose.
Just sayin...

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vraith wrote:



Texas draws racist Rep. ones, on purpose.
Just sayin...
How are the districts racist?
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarathustra wrote:
Vraith wrote:



Texas draws racist Rep. ones, on purpose.
Just sayin...
How are the districts racist?

you could go look at the case heading to supreme court right now....
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vraith wrote:
Zarathustra wrote:
Vraith wrote:



Texas draws racist Rep. ones, on purpose.
Just sayin...
How are the districts racist?

you could go look at the case heading to supreme court right now....
Or you could explain your take on it.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read a few articles on the issue. I'm not really up on Texas politics. I see that a court ruled that their redistricting was intentionally racist. But the reasoning seems to follow the typical bizarro-world opposite thinking that the Left has about race. In my opinion, drawing up district lines along racial lines would be racist, but the Republicans did the opposite of this. Because of a growth in Hispanic numbers, Dems want new Hispanic districts added, places where they would be the majority and can vote in representatives who share their skin tone and/or culture. (Dems just assume rather condescendingly that people only vote for their own color??) But in order to do this, you have to use race as the criteria for drawing up the district boundaries. Reps didn't draw up the boundaries with the specific Dem objective of making Dem voters more powerful, so of course the Dems are bitching about it, and throwing around the charge of "racism" like usual ... even though they are the ones thinking in terms of race.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What Vraith fails to mention is another SCOTUS case in which Maryland Democrats redistricted the state, particularly the 6th District, to ensure that no Republicans would be elected. These districts were also drawn with race in mind.

My district (the 6th) was very conservative, and had a Republican representative. The governor himself (O'Malley) publically stated that the legislature needed to re-draw that district so that he'd have another state Democrat in Congress. So that's exactly what they did.




Edited to add - Not much would make me happier than seeing California and Texas split up. That would be a great catalyst to breaking the country up.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just need to look at Al Green, Pete Sessions and Steve Alford

.. there a link to I think what V is referring to

http://www.governing.com/topics/politics/tns-texas-supreme-court-gerrymandering-redistricting.html
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cail wrote:
What Vraith fails to mention is another SCOTUS case


Didn't think it was relevant. There are other cases, too. But I'm pretty sure the Maryland one [and Wisconsin also] involve challenges to partisan gerrymandering, not racial. [[though the way the parties are constituted, there will often be at least some overlap---I'm pretty sure, though I haven't looked at it other than headlines, Georgia has a gerry-situation that is explicitly BOTH race and partisan issue]].

Funny, though [in previous]---when did you start being interested in my take?
Decent piece of why I mostly avoid this place lately is the attitude of
"If you don't link it, it ain't real." Smile
[[as if most of the people posting in here aren't are both smarter and more knowledgeable than the link/source.]]

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vraith wrote:
Cail wrote:
What Vraith fails to mention is another SCOTUS case


Didn't think it was relevant. There are other cases, too. But I'm pretty sure the Maryland one [and Wisconsin also] involve challenges to partisan gerrymandering, not racial. [[though the way the parties are constituted, there will often be at least some overlap---I'm pretty sure, though I haven't looked at it other than headlines, Georgia has a gerry-situation that is explicitly BOTH race and partisan issue]].

Funny, though [in previous]---when did you start being interested in my take?
Decent piece of why I mostly avoid this place lately is the attitude of
"If you don't link it, it ain't real." Smile
[[as if most of the people posting in here aren't are both smarter and more knowledgeable than the link/source.]]
If you don't link it, it's not real. It can be your opinion, but you (particularly you) had a very bad habit of insisting your opinion was fact, and balked at ever supporting your position. Which is why I ask for your take. I can read the facts elsewhere.

Maryland's gerrymandering is partisan, however it becomes somewhat racial when you look at how the districts were structured. Western Maryland, which is rural, conservative, farm country, is now in the same district as low-income, primarily Hispanic Rockville, which is a hundred miles away from the center of what used to be the district.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I told you (elsewhere) that Cail doesn't like Texas.

re: Texas secessionists....they aren't nearly as numerous as they used to be and any such efforts have never been more than some fringe group's pipe dream. The California secessionists are real and the California splitters are gathering signatures for State ballots right now (they want to split into 3 States).

California hasn't voted Republican since Reagan while Texas used to be solidly Democratic for decades (from 1874 until 1979 the Governor's Office had been occupied by a Democrat). I can't speak for California but I can tell you what--who--turned Texas Republican: Bill Clinton. NAFTA was a bad deal for us, he closed lots of military bases, and Mt. Carmel in Waco is the poster child example for Janet Reno's out-of-control DoJ during her tenure as Attorney General during Clinton's Administration.

If Republicans in the Texas Legislature--two Members of which I know *personally*--were so racist that they set about gerrymandering districts to water down non-white votes, then why were there at least two Congressional districts in the Rio Grande valley who had no Republicans whatsoever cast a vote in the most recent set of primaries? Wouldn't they have redrawn *all* the districts under the auspice of racial bias?

"Racist" is a meaningless term people apply these days in an attempt to smear something with which they disagree.

re: the SCOTUS case...of course Sotomayor doesn't want the Court to rule on the case--she knows that the ruling will not be one with which she agrees and once the Court issues a ruling the matter is settled.

Bottom line: Democrats in Texas don't want the maps redrawn based on their ideas. No, the *real* goal of the lawsuits is to try and force the situation where the DoJ or a Federal Court gets to approve (or pre-clear, as the case may be) district lines being redrawn. This takes the final choice out of the hands of Republicans. It isn't a case of the Democrats wanting a victory; rather, it is a case of them wanting to prevent the Republicans from having a victory. For Democrats, that is enough.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On your racist term comment .. it may well be your opinion that the term is being misused to curry a bias

Which yeah .. the term implies bias .. based a persons or a class of persons race .. 🤷‍♀️ but leaving that little Captain Obvious comment to one side .. cos yeah we all should get that.

This is exactly how a concept like racial discrimination is watered down and discriminatory behaviour becomes permissible in societies ..

Yes I get your point that some allegations of racial discrimination may be a manipulation of a set of circumstances for a benefit of one kind or another ..

Racisim however is demonstrable .. like any other term that has legal implications.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:02 am    Post subject: Calexit Reply with quote

Let California secede. Watch people from south of the border invade it. Watch them overthrow their political-elite overlords. Then the U.S. can invade it, kick out the illegal immigrants, the likes of Brown and the other 'know-better-than-you' types, and re-integrate it into the union.

Problem solved.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

👍 alrighty

Why the fuck not 🤷‍♀️ right 🤷‍♀️ Its all kinda ludicrous anyhoo
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The discussion is all moot, in any event. Neither the secession nor "Cali-split" options are going to pass, which means that their supporters will simply keep trying again in two years.

How many failures at the ballot box must a proposition receive before people quit trying it?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Cail"]
Vraith wrote:
but you (particularly you) had a very bad habit of insisting your opinion was fact, and balked at ever supporting your position.


I stopped even trying to link for a number of very good reasons. Including that having links didn't make a goddamn bit of difference. I'm pretty sure I've discussed most of the reasons elsewhere.
I know you don't believe them---oh well.
But I link all the time in the Loresraat---because over there it DOES make a damn difference.
Hell, even the CLOSE pays more attention to information drawn from links.
I'm no more insistent on the correctness of my opinion than you or Z or Hashi or most anyone else, though there is certainly---sometimes---a difference in tone/presentation.

So now I'm repeating myself and being as tedious in my way as this place generally is, boring myself. Back on out again, I guess.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No .. dont let Cail decide what you post or how .. fuck that .. we need your voice .. its an opinion board .. lol ..

And lets be brutally honest .. most links are cherry picked .. I have read a bunch and have found equal number that argue the opposite 🤷‍♀️

I value a variety of opinions not just threads designed to support only one line of thought. Lets kick some conservative uptight ass ..

I can guarantee they dont want that .. lol .. a balanced set of posts LOL 😂
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vraith wrote:
Cail wrote:
Vraith wrote:
but you (particularly you) had a very bad habit of insisting your opinion was fact, and balked at ever supporting your position.


I stopped even trying to link for a number of very good reasons. Including that having links didn't make a goddamn bit of difference. I'm pretty sure I've discussed most of the reasons elsewhere.
I know you don't believe them---oh well.
But I link all the time in the Loresraat---because over there it DOES make a damn difference.
Hell, even the CLOSE pays more attention to information drawn from links.
I'm no more insistent on the correctness of my opinion than you or Z or Hashi or most anyone else, though there is certainly---sometimes---a difference in tone/presentation.

So now I'm repeating myself and being as tedious in my way as this place generally is, boring myself. Back on out again, I guess.
Links make a difference; they give your posts legitimacy. I may disagree with your takeaway from the source, but at least your audience knows you're not just making things up. You made assertion after assertion of fact....And you were dead wrong on the facts in most cases. And because you refused to support your posts with any sort of evidence other than, "because I say so", I (and others, I'd imagine) stopped taking you seriously, and started treating you like a contrarian gadfly.

Post here, don't post here. Whatever. But if you're going to assert something as a fact, you'd better be prepared to support the fact. Otherwise you're just trolling.
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