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DrPaul
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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A resurrected, undead Kevin with mastery of all seven wards would clean Mhoram's clock IMO.


That was also Mhoram's opinion. In Ch.26 of TIW, he explains to Hile Troy the reasons why he and Calindrill were unable to help her against Kevin in the fight that was still raging at that moment:

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Yes if we gained the High Lord, we would have nothing to offer her but the frail strength of two Lords. With the Staff of Law, she far surpasses us.
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Horrim Carabal
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrPaul wrote:
Quote:
A resurrected, undead Kevin with mastery of all seven wards would clean Mhoram's clock IMO.


That was also Mhoram's opinion. In Ch.26 of TIW, he explains to Hile Troy the reasons why he and Calindrill were unable to help her against Kevin in the fight that was still raging at that moment:

Quote:
Yes if we gained the High Lord, we would have nothing to offer her but the frail strength of two Lords. With the Staff of Law, she far surpasses us.


Exactly. I get that a large percentage of people on this site are deep into the Mhoram-worship...I've never really been a huge fan...but even they should realize that Kevin was ten times the High Lord Mhoram ever was. Power-wise, at least. In other ways Mhoram was clearly superior, I must admit.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrPaul wrote:
Quote:
A resurrected, undead Kevin with mastery of all seven wards would clean Mhoram's clock IMO.


That was also Mhoram's opinion. In Ch.26 of TIW, he explains to Hile Troy the reasons why he and Calindrill were unable to help her against Kevin in the fight that was still raging at that moment:

Quote:
Yes if we gained the High Lord, we would have nothing to offer her but the frail strength of two Lords. With the Staff of Law, she far surpasses us.


I compared Kevin's ghost to TPTP Mhoram. He definitely became stronger though it's true we don't know if that was strong enough to face Kevin.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mhoram was a dedicated and selfless hero. He may not have had a 10th of Kevin's power but if he failed in a contest between the two you wouldn't be able to say that it was because Mhoram's character was flawed. I'm not sure one could say the same about the reverse.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Horrim Carabal wrote:
In other ways Mhoram was clearly superior, I must admit.
Like in the "don't destroy the Land thinking that'll be a victory" department? Wink
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a big department!
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel that one of the "points" SRD makes with Kevin is that lore/magic/knowledge isn't sufficient against despair. Kevin has all the lore, and it's useless against Foul. Whereas by Mhoram's time the lore knowledge is much reduced among the lords, but they more than make up for that in other ways.

Kevin has to be superior on the power scale, or the whole thing falls flat.

It's like people who think more money would bring them happiness. It never does.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kevin had much more lore and power, but Mhoram turns out to have more wisdom and inner strength.

I also have a post bubbling up in my about why the New Lords developed the mindmeld, which the Old Lords did not have, and whether this was partly in response to the consequences of Kevin not sharing his despairing thoughts with anyone else before the RoD.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hang on. NO ONE in the Land can defeat Foul. That's the whole premise of the story.

Fault Kevin for other things. But not for being unable to defeat the Despiser. So there's no statement about the adequacy of lore here. Or of wisdom. Kevin damned himself by his choices, not by his eficacy.

Mhoram would have been defeated as well. But he would have lost with his integrity in tact.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayfriend wrote:
Hang on. NO ONE in the Land can defeat Foul. That's the whole premise of the story.

Fault Kevin for other things. But not for being unable to defeat the Despiser. So there's no statement about the adequacy of lore here. Or of wisdom. Kevin damned himself by his choices, not by his eficacy.

Mhoram would have been defeated as well. But he would have lost with his integrity in tact.


I agree that no one in the Land can defeat Foul, but Kevin was the apotheosis of that idea. Kevin is Casey at the bat. He's the biggest, most powerful, most lore-wise Lord ever. He probably commanded the greatest army of good the Land had ever seen. He's the pinnacle of what power a human High Lord can wield. That's why it's so crushing when we/he realized it wasn't enough.

No other High Lord (Mhoram, Elena, etc) can be more powerful than Kevin, because that would abrogate or somehow diminish the whole point of Kevin. You can't have another batter come up after Casey who is even better.
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