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and so how is this the "Boy Scouts"
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:42 pm    Post subject: and so how is this the "Boy Scouts" Reply with quote

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/boy-scouts-girls-allowed-to-join-cub-scouts-next-year/

Quote:
NEW YORK -- In its latest momentous policy shift, the Boy Scouts of America will admit girls into the Cub Scouts starting next year and establish a new program for older girls based on the Boy Scout curriculum that enables them to aspire to the coveted Eagle Scout rank.

Founded in 1910 and long considered a bastion of tradition, the Boy Scouts have undergone major changes in the past five years, agreeing to accept openly gay youth members and adult volunteers, as well as transgender boys.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure Baden-Powell would agree, but as an adult Scouter with a Wood Badge, I think the principles and practices of Scouting apply well enough to both genders. Whether a combined program (as has existed for a while for Venturing and is now planned for Cubbing) or separate program (as is proposed for the core age group) will work best is a question best answered empirically.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As an organization, the Boy Scouts of America is a relic of the past which is desperately trying to stay alive and keep up with the times. It probably has 10 to 15 years of life left before it finally dies.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are entitled to your opinion, Director, but my experience (having seen the arc of first-graders entering the program as Tiger Cubs and emerging as Eagle Scouts by the time the graduate from high school), I tend to disagree. Not all young men in the program do so well, and certainly there are other paths to developing personal self-sufficiency, character, and leadership, but Scouting ought not be dismissed as no longer relevant.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seem to recall that they're accepting atheists too these days. (What about the Girl Guides? weren't they supposed to be an equivalent?)

Doesn't bother me personally, but yes, sounds like a re-brand should be in the offing...just call it "Scouts."

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Savor Dam wrote:
You are entitled to your opinion, Director, but my experience (having seen the arc of first-graders entering the program as Tiger Cubs and emerging as Eagle Scouts by the time the graduate from high school), I tend to disagree. Not all young men in the program do so well, and certainly there are other paths to developing personal self-sufficiency, character, and leadership, but Scouting ought not be dismissed as no longer relevant.


True--I suppose I probably shouldn't disparage them that harshly. I have almost completely ignored them for my entire life, though--I never saw the point in it.
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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well the Boy Scouts did re-brand to Scouts BSA and now accept girls and LGBT into their ranks as leaders and members. They noted changing times and needing to expand a flagging membership.

Guess that wont be working out for them at least short term.

Mormons cut ties with Scouts ending 100 year alliance. This effectively removes almost half a million young people from Scouting.

Quote:
Church officials did not cite specific Scouts policy changes that spurred the split, but the two groups have increasingly clashed over values in recent years, particularly following the Boy Scouts move to include openly gay troop leaders. The announcement also came less than a week after the Boy Scouts announced it would be changing its flagship name to Scouts BSA, promoting its decision last year to welcome girls into the program for the first time.


Just my personal view, but if I had kids today they would not be in the Scouting program. The Scouts views are not longer aligned with mine. And that is speaking from a parent of an Eagle Scout.
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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah well that has a lot more to do with child abuses from leaders within their organisation .. so I see no moral compass coming from them.

Its just Scouts here. I joined Scouts in 1976 I think. Became a Venturer and Rover .. got my Queen Scout .. your Eagle Scout equivalent. I loved my experiences in Scouts . We got to do sooooo much more than Girl Scouts .. 🙄 I remember doing a sewing badge 🙄 With the Scouts we kayaked, certified, built shit, camped, climbed, abseiled, parasailed, did all sorts of great fun outdoors activities. I hope this institutions days arent numbered ..

I went on to working on my Duke of Edinburgh Award in Rovers. These milestones gave our activities focus.

I am glad for my time in Scouts.
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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skyweir wrote:
Yeah well that has a lot more to do with child abuses from leaders within their organisation .. so I see no moral compass coming from them.

Its just Scouts here. I joined Scouts in 1976 I think. Became a Venturer and Rover .. got my Queen Scout .. your Eagle Scout equivalent. I loved my experiences in Scouts . We got to do sooooo much more than Girl Scouts .. 🙄 I remember doing a sewing badge 🙄 With the Scouts we kayaked, certified, built shit, camped, climbed, abseiled, parasailed, did all sorts of great fun outdoors activities. I hope this institutions days arent numbered ..

I went on to working on my Duke of Edinburgh Award in Rovers. These milestones gave our activities focus.

I am glad for my time in Scouts.


What does child abuses within the Morman organization have to do with them deciding to take 450K kids out of BoyScouts? I get your moral compass thing, but that would have nothing to do with leaving BoyScouts.


Your Scouts is an organization that is from the grass roots a multi gender organization. the BOYscouts are obviously not. If the girls wanted to start their own scouting that included those things, they were certainly able to do so.

Outside of that, having a half million members (20% of your total) leave your organization overnight is going to hurt and perhaps be unrecoverable.
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"All of the above is my opinion and thus shouldnt need to be supported by anything other than more of my opinions. twocents "

We miss you Tracie but your Spirit will always shine brightly on the Watch
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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a sad day. Some people just aren't happy unless they're tearing something down.
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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have both a boy and a girl. They both did the Scouts thing.
My daughter quit early because young Girlscouts activities were all stupid girly stuff (her words basically). And enough with the god-damn cookie sales too! (there's even a badge for passing your cookie customer list off to another scout. lol )

My son quit shortly after crossing over from Cubs to Scouts. He had fun until his friends dropped out and then he lost interest.

I participated with him every week and helped out with almost everything and got to know the ins and outs pretty well.
"Knot tying is a perishable skill"; damn-it if that's not the truth!

Many Cub Scout leaders I saw were moms. So the fight for keeping girls separate from boys in Scouts always seemed funny to me.
Dens, Packs and Troops were always being consolidated because of smaller numbers every year. Scout numbers were reducing massively in my area, I'm assuming that's the case nationally too.

The idea of mixing boys and girls in Scouts sounds good to me. Learn how to work together at a young age, it's not like it's ever going to stop in life.
The "girls and boys like different things" argument is true but also bullshit. That's why there are different badges. Sometimes my son worked for a badge he didn't have any interest either, they deal with it.
Include some girl scout skills/badges too. They overlap quite a bit on most subjects.
The end goal for both girls and boys in Scouts should be to come out with exposure to a ton of life skills.

Now what gets tricky is the need to have both a male and female Scout leader (or chaperone) present at all times because sometimes things are going to happen. And I don't mean bad things but a hundred little things, like bed wetting, bathroom issues, minor injuries, sunburns, clothing mishaps....kids require special time and care with some weird shit when camping, skiing or driving long distances..... and parents might not like a male Leader changing the wet clothes or helping out in the bathroom with their female child for example.
To avoid those issues just requires good planning and scheduling.
Which, in my experience with the Scouts is always great.
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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I totally agree HLT .. that was my experience that it was great. We didnt have girls scouts badges .. we all went for the same badges.

I was sick of girls scouts for that very reason .. we just did lame shit that wasnt challenging or fun. Rolling Eyes

Its definitely not for everyone .. but what is 🤷‍♀️

Soulbiter perhaps it hasnt occurred in the US but here .. the Mormon church adopted scouting .. and appointed their own scout leaders. As a result of claims of child sexual abuses by certain leaders the church has struggled to retain legitimate hold on Baden Powells vision. But it is more widespread than just the Mormons adaptations

The Mormon church became very apt at containing the leadership issues they faced .. which was nor is of any service to the victims.

My experience with scouting was through the Scouting Association of Australia. And it was a great experience. Yes because we were a mixed group we had to have both male and female chaperones. Mormon church leaders only catered for boys and did not need both male and female chaperones. Perhaps there would have been less of an issue if they had .. or just supported the secular organisation that existed.
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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The BoyScouts as an organization have every right to change their charter in the manner they did. I will however not support the Scouts financially going forward as I have been prior to this. That is my right. I will find another youth organization to support with my dollars.

On the Mormon thing, I have no clue what the Mormons did or didn't do in the past or present, in the US or Aus. It has no bearing on the decision for them to stop supporting the BSA or my decision to stop supporting the BSA.
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"All of the above is my opinion and thus shouldnt need to be supported by anything other than more of my opinions. twocents "

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Boy Scouts has become outdated.
If you can't twitter, facebook or meme it is a non entity.
Boy Scouts stood for self determination, resilience, individualism through
consensus and cooperation.
Today those qualities and traits are not the norm.
It should be like old soldiers... to fade away.
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ur Dead wrote:
The Boy Scouts has become outdated.
If you can't twitter, facebook or meme it is a non entity.
Boy Scouts stood for self determination, resilience, individualism through
consensus and cooperation.
Today those qualities and traits are not the norm.
It should be like old soldiers... to fade away.


Wow how tragic ... to so flippantly set aside qualities of this caliber.. and the kinds of skills kids learn in Scouts. So strange that we as humans now deem activity outdated and of little value activities not associated with memes, tweets, social media 🤷‍♀️. Kids can experience and become proficient in both, if they want to.

People winge about the kids of today, that they feel entitled, are priveleged, dont have to work for what they have ... and yet activities that will teach kids the skills they need to do things for themselves, to be self reliant you poo poo 🤷‍♀️

SB yeah you do what you want .. dontesupport them or do. 🤷‍♀️ Scouting was great for me .. but we are all different 🤷‍♀️

Scouts offered me far more than Girl Guides ever did. Im glad they welcome girls in scouting in the US. Finally catching up with the rest of us .. and it hasnt been the death of scouting here .. nasty fuckers have been.
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have a dog in this fight, but through my job I have met with Scouting officials regarding their Explorer program. It's a good program where youth, of either gender who don't have to have been previously been involved in scouting, can join a post that is involved in showing what is done day to day at in various fields. Most of the posts, at least in this area, are for youth interested in law enforcement, but they have a large list of career paths that they would eventually like to form posts for.

The Mormons were involved in scouting for their own reasons. If they no longer exist, then they should go. It may hurt the Scouts in the short term but it will be better for them over time. Any business that is as dependent on one supplier, as what appeared to be the situation with the scouts, is not in a good position. If there are those who don't like the changes, they are free not to support them. Just as those who didn't support them before may now do so. My Eagle Scout friend thought that it was about time that they changed their rules.
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damelon wrote:
My Eagle Scout friend thought that it was about time that they changed their rules.


Differing views. My son is an Eagle Scout and he has a few friends from Scouting that are Eagle as well. This issue has shown up on FB in the last few weeks and 100% of them say they dislike this move by the Boy Scouts. This could backfire on the Scouts in a real bad way. Only time will tell.
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My 5 year old nephew Eli
Eli: Dammit!
His mom: Eli, that is not a nice word. We need to find another word to use.
Eli: I am a bad guy mom. I use bad words and fight with my lasers. Dammit!


"All of the above is my opinion and thus shouldnt need to be supported by anything other than more of my opinions. twocents "

We miss you Tracie but your Spirit will always shine brightly on the Watch
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoulBiter wrote:
Only time will tell.


That is true.
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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoulBiter wrote:
Damelon wrote:
My Eagle Scout friend thought that it was about time that they changed their rules.


Differing views. My son is an Eagle Scout and he has a few friends from Scouting that are Eagle as well. This issue has shown up on FB in the last few weeks and 100% of them say they dislike this move by the Boy Scouts. This could backfire on the Scouts in a real bad way. Only time will tell.


And Im an Eagle Scout equivalent ... tbh our Queen Scout program is much more rigorous 😏 and a female and think it's great Big Grin

Your claim that 100 percent of fb peeps are not in favour is no great claim to fame. FFS they are on FB .. mayhap theyre on fb 24 7 .. 🤷‍♀️ Has this alleged demographic had anything ever to do with Scouts 🤷‍♀️
My point though I am making it extremely flippantly is that this does not a credible survey make. Youve been on fb too long if you see this as indicative data that supports your claims.

And it doesnt even matter.

Including girls in the program will not be its undoing .. thats not what would curl Baden Powells goes .. its the incidents of peodophilia .. sexual predators that prey on a captive target of young boys. Thats been the problem for the Mormons as a class .. not just in the US .. here too.

No Im not suggesting all Mormons are peodophiles .. that would be as ridiculous as asserting because 100 percent of your friends oppose girls in Scouts means its a bad idea period. There are many great Mormons. My first Scout Leader was Mormon and we are still friends today.
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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skyweir wrote:


Your claim that 100 percent of fb peeps are not in favour is no great claim to fame. FFS they are on FB .. mayhap theyre on fb 24 7 .. 🤷‍♀️ Has this alleged demographic had anything ever to do with Scouts 🤷‍♀️


That is a pretty flippant response and one that reads in things that I never said or alleged. I said in my previous post that it was my sons friends who were also Eagle Scouts that he knows from scouting. Not some random FB posting. I don't know about your FB feed but I have very very few people as FB friends that I don't personally know.

Skyweir wrote:

And it doesnt even matter.

Including girls in the program will not be its undoing ..


Perhaps.... as I said. Time will tell.

Skyweir wrote:

thats not what would curl Baden Powells goes .. its the incidents of peodophilia .. sexual predators that prey on a captive target of young boys. Thats been the problem for the Mormons as a class .. not just in the US .. here too.

No Im not suggesting all Mormons are peodophiles .. that would be as ridiculous as asserting because 100 percent of your friends oppose girls in Scouts means its a bad idea period. There are many great Mormons. My first Scout Leader was Mormon and we are still friends today.


Wow... you are really grinding your axe on Mormons in this thread. I brought up that they are taking their 20% with them. Since then you keep bringing it up again and again as if that were the topic. My only point of bringing them up originally was to point out that no organization can easily deal with having an instantaneous 20% reduction in their membership.
Quote:
"On the Mormon thing, I have no clue what the Mormons did or didn't do in the past or present, in the US or Aus. It has no bearing on the decision for them to stop supporting the BSA or my decision to stop supporting the BSA."

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"He torments himself sufficiently."

My 5 year old nephew Eli
Eli: Dammit!
His mom: Eli, that is not a nice word. We need to find another word to use.
Eli: I am a bad guy mom. I use bad words and fight with my lasers. Dammit!


"All of the above is my opinion and thus shouldnt need to be supported by anything other than more of my opinions. twocents "

We miss you Tracie but your Spirit will always shine brightly on the Watch
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