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BIG, EARLY NEWS: Amazon buying LOTR to make a Series
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:59 pm    Post subject: BIG, EARLY NEWS: Amazon buying LOTR to make a Series Reply with quote

Variety.com wrote:
'Lord of the Rings': Amazon, Warner Bros. in Talks for Series Adaptation (EXCLUSIVE)

Warner Bros. Television and the estate of J.R.R. Tolkien are in talks with Amazon Studios to develop a series based on the late author's "The Lord of the Rings" novels. Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos is said by sources with knowledge of the situation to be personally involved in the negotiations, which are still in very early stages. No deal has been set. [link]

TheOneRing.net wrote:
As the Variety article implied, Jeff Bezos, CEO of Amazon, has been wanting to launch a major fantasy series along the lines of HBO's Game of Thrones. As it turns out, the project has been shopped not only to Amazon, but to Netflix and HBO as well. In an article that also came out yesterday, Nellie Andreeva at Deadline Hollywood has heard that HBO has dropped out of the running almost certainly because of the hefty price tag: upfront payments in the range of $200 - $250 million just for the rights to then produce a series that could cost up to $150 million per season. [link]

The common thinking already emerging about this is that Amazon is looking for a Game of Thrones, although that assessment has a number of problems.

But one possibility is that we might see a more episodic, and more complete, LOTR adaptation.

If only they had thought of the Chronicles instead!
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If this succeeds, maybe it will pave the way for adaptation of a Donaldson series. One can hope. Cross Fingers
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WTF?

Why make a series out of something that had a series of movies made relatively recently?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It all makes perfect sense
expressed in dollars and cents
pounds shillings and pence.


One thing I gather is that someone is shopping this around. Amazon, HBO, Netflix, and who knows who else were looking at it. In other words, it's being driven by the seller. And the market is drooling.

This tells me that they (all of a sudden?) have something that is highly desirable.

I speculate that what is going on here is someone figured out how to make LOTR the next GoT. Not in a vague more-fantasy-is-good way. But something concrete and credible. Someone has a treatise for a serial. It's been looked at. And it's very good.

So I am a little bit excited about this.

However, another thing to remember is that this is "based on" LOTR. That could mean anything. It need not be another adaptation of the books. It can be something more akin to Born of Hope and The Hunt for Gollum. But it cannot be anything in the Silmarillion -- the Estate seems to be in these talks, but I cannot imagine them parting with the rights. So it may be something like the Adventures of Young Aragorn in Rohan and Gondor.

I am sure that they can sex that up.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another thought: no one is quite sure why the Tolkien Estate is involved in these negotiations. After all, the Movie and TV rights are all in someone else's hands.

From what I know of Christopher Tolkien, he would never sell the rights to the Silmarillion or anything like that. He's famously obstinate, wants his family's legacy to be literature, not slot machines and bobble heads.

But it occurs to me that they may be negotiating exactly where is that boundary between The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings and the rest of the legendarium. For example, Numenor: how much of a story about Numenor could you tell with the rights to LOTR and only LOTR? Or the Noldor? Can you tell the story of Beren and Luthien? In whole or in part?

All of these things would be critical if you were trying to expand the story beyond LOTR, whether as a new standalone story or an expanded adaptation of the book.

Despite my desire to see something good made into a show, I also have a bit of empathy for Christopher's plight. So I am not sure where I land here.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since seeing your post, I've read that the rights might not actually include the rights to all of the characters..

https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/3/16605272/lord-of-the-rings-jrr-tolkien-game-of-thrones-amazon-studios

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Verge wrote:
Amazon isn't the only looking into the rights, according to Deadline, which reports that the Tolkien Estate is looking to sell the television rights to the iconic fantasy series to the tune of $200-250 million, and has approached Netflix and HBO as well. There appears to be some strings attached: the rights might not encompass all of the characters in the story. HBO has reportedly passed on the project.

There's an easy conclusion to draw from this, if it's accurate. Tolkien Estates doesn't own the television rights to the Lord of the Rings. So that cannot be what it is selling. Therefore, it's selling something which is related to, but isn't, LOTR. Such a property would might have some of the same characters that are in LOTR, like Galadriel, Gandalf, or Aragorn. But it would not have characters that are solely in LOTR, like Frodo or Samwise. Hence, "not encompass all of the characters".

Still, it's easier for me to believe that this is just incorrect reporting. Tolkien Estates wouldn't sell anything, for any amount of money, as far as I understand.

One possibility I suppose is that part of the 62 million pound settlement with Warner Bros allows the Tolkien Estates some say over who and how Warner Bros sells the television rights that it has. Articles do say that Tolkien Estates -and- Warner Bros are selling the rights.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Avatar wrote:
WTF?

Why make a series out of something that had a series of movies made relatively recently?

--A
Preproduction for the LOTR movies began 20 years ago. In other words, nearly the same amount of time has passed since the beginning of LOTR movies as passed between Tolkien's death and the beginning of the LOTR movies (24 years)! An entire generation of people born after that time are now in (or nearing) adulthood.

Yes, we're old.

Laughing

Sad
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Rise and fall or Arnor would make for a good series.
Nothing to do with the Ring, just make it intrigue and battles.
Arnor breaking up into multiple kingdoms could take several seasons, Witch King as the super badguy, Elrond, Galadriel and Hobbits can make appearances.
Goblins, trolls, dwarves and even a maybe a few Ents too.
The Eriador region at that time is ripe for untold stories, imo.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw an idea years ago for a Numenor movie(s). It was a damn good idea.

I think this was it.

Also, I've found this in regards to the LOTR series:

Quote:

Sources stress that a deal for a Lord of the Rings TV series is far from official. Talks are said to be focusing on rights issues with the Tolkien estate; the project has yet to even go out to search for a writer.


I doubt they have suddenly read a treatise of the show. I think it's only "all of a sudden" because all the lawsuits with Tolkien estate have recently ended, and GOT is ending next year, so there will be no competition in this category.

The article also said this:

Quote:
That Amazon Studios has emerged as a potential home for the LOTR TV series comes as little surprise given the genre-focused programming push Bezos has mandated. The retail giant and streaming platform has been on the hot seat for its lack of a breakthrough hit, with Sharon Tal Yguado initially brought in earlier this year to oversee the development of genre fare.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL Time is a river of unending cruelty. Very Happy

Yeah, I could probably buy into something like the Numenor idea. Much better than trying to force some LotR series.

I'm actually encouraged by WF's thought about the character limitations.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, it's official.

Quote:
It's Official: 'Lord of the Rings' TV Series Gets Multiple-Season Commitment at Amazon
by Lesley Goldberg

It's official: Amazon Studios is going to make a Lord of the Rings TV series.

The retail giant and streaming outlet announced Monday that it has acquired global television rights to the Lord of the Rings franchise, based on the best-selling novels by J.R.R. Tolkien. Amazon has handed out a multiple-season commitment. The Amazon LOTR series will be produced in-house at Amazon Studios alongside the Tolkien Estate and Trust, publisher HarperCollins and Warner Bros. Entertainment's New Line Cinema. A writer has not yet been attached.

Amazon's LOTR series will be set in Middle-earth and explore new storylines preceding Tolkien's The Fellowship of the Ring. The deal includes a potential additional spinoff series.

"The Lord of the Rings is a cultural phenomenon that has captured the imagination of generations of fans through literature and the big screen," said Sharon Tal Yguado, Amazon's new head of scripted. "We are honored to be working with the Tolkien Estate and Trust, HarperCollins and New Line on this exciting collaboration for television and are thrilled to be taking The Lord of the Rings fans on a new epic journey in Middle Earth."

The news comes 10 days after word leaked that Amazon Studios was exploring a potential TV series based on the fantasy novels and subsequent feature film franchise, which was produced by New Line. The LOTR trilogy was named Amazon customers' favorite book of the millennium in 1999.

The news comes four months after Warner Bros. and the Tolkien estate settled an $80 million lawsuit after a five-year battle. That happened after Warners offshoot New Line Cinema and the Tolkien estate waged a courtroom battle over profit participation from the film franchise that consisted of The Fellowship of the Ring (2001), The Two Towers (2002) and The Return of the King (2003), as well as 2013 prequel The Hobbit. The property is a multibillion-dollar worldwide franchise.

"We are delighted that Amazon, with its longstanding commitment to literature, is the home of the first-ever multiseason television series for The Lord of the Rings," said Matt Galsor, a representative for the Tolkien Estate and Trust and HarperCollins. "Sharon and the team at Amazon Studios have exceptional ideas to bring to the screen previously unexplored stories based on J.R.R. Tolkien's original writings."

So, yes, it is the rights to The Lord of the Rings, not any other of Tolkien's work, but no, it is not adapting The Lord of the Rings itself, but is a prequel (and yet not The Hobbit).

The Tolkien Estate doesn't seem to have released any rights it yet holds. But they will be "involved", hopefully for scholarly knowledge, but possibly for optics only.

Possibilities that occur to me include the rise and fall of Gondor and Arnor, or the adventures of young Aragorn. But it could be The Maidens of Brandy Hall. It seems less likely to be about Numenor or the Silmarils, which, while technically "preceding" LOTR, are unlikely to be encompassed by the rights to LOTR. (And maybe that's why the Estate is involved - to ensure that Amazon stays within the bounds of the rights granted.)
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This seems like it's got the right idea.

TheOneRing.net wrote:
Content's of Amazon's 'Lord of the Rings' series not so mysterious after all

[...] So how is this TV series actually a "Lord of the Rings" series that happens before the books begin but also isn't "The Hobbit" but is based on the author's original writings?

You may already know.

Tolkien managed to get Harper Collins to publish the third part of his "The Lord of the Rings" book with a group of appendices, organized into sections A to F. When Tolkien famously sold the rights of his book(s) to United Artists in 1969, it was about what was between the covers - not the start and finish of the story - and that includes those sections on languages, writing and spelling, calendars and family trees.

But Appendix A and Appendix B aren't just lists or dates but flesh out what the press release promises, "storylines preceding Tolkien's The Fellowship of the Ring _ based on J.R.R. Tolkien's original writings."

So yes, the series will explore the past, perhaps the distant past before the story of the War of the Ring and yet, it will still be based on the contents between the covers in "The Lord of the Rings."

****** SPOILER WARNING ******

To save you from running to your copy of the books, here is a brief summary of the material that is legally available for production:

APPENDIX A - THE NUMENOREN KINGS - You "Silmarillion" supporters, sad because there is no chance of an adaptation of that book, can keep your candle burning. But it might only be a fools hope. The only content legally available is a recap of the Sil in LOTR. It doesn't have everything but it has some big stuff. We get three jewels, their theft by Morgoth, his fortress Thangorodrim, war against him from the baddest Elves, and Luthien Tinuviel and Beren getting a Silmaril from Morgoth's Iron Crown and more, but just a smattering from the massive scale story of the Elves and Men.

Numenor and its line of kings that eventually lead to ruin and the scattering of the realms in exile might work as a multi-season series. If you recall, Appenix A also has the kings of Arnor, Gondor the Dunedain - Aragorn's people - and the Stewards of Gondor.

Oh and the tale of Aragorn and Arwen.

The history of Rohan is there, as is some of the events leading up to the Dwarves' mission in "The Hobbit," films, touched on by them in the three-film adaptation.

So Elves and Men. And who can tell the story of the downfall of Men better than an immortal Elf? If I were Amazon, I would lock up Hugo Weaving to a multi-season contract ASAP.

APPENDIX B
Here we find a brief account of the battles in the north during the War of the Ring. It also mentions some wizards and how Gandalf received the Ring of Fire.

We also get some major events of the Second Age dealing with Numenor and the Rings of Power. This content was said to be gathered by none other than Merry, which could provide a narrator to hold the structure together. Is Billy Boyd busy?

Thinking this through, it seems probable that the new Amazon series will focus on the kingdom's of men and its success and eventual failures, mostly from Appendix A.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dominic Monaghan played Merry. The rest of the information is very intriguing..,I'd love to watch a series set in the First Age, the Second Age, or the early centuries of the Third Age.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So far I'm the closest. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

High Lord Tolkien wrote:
So far I'm the closest. Very Happy

We know it's you ... Jeff Bezos!!!
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some more answers surfaced today.

TheOneRing.net wrote:
In historic move, Christopher Tolkien resigns as director of Tolkien Estate [link]

Okay, that sheds a new light on recent events. CT held onto the rights to his father's works with an iron deathgrip. His retirement may presage a sea-change.

Quote:
Another important thing to note here, and another piece of the puzzle, is that the television rights to "The Hobbit" and "Lord of the Rings" were NOT sold when J.R.R. Tolkien sold the movie rights in 1969. Those rights were for motion pictures. TORn staffer and author Kristin Thompson informed our staff about this. She has first-hand documentation and as author of "The Frodo Franchise," knows this stuff as well as anybody. And obviously you can and should buy her book on Amazon.com. I believe another TORn news article is expected on just this point.

This explains why the estate was so involved in the Amazon deal; they were selling something. It also explains why Tolkien Enterprises was absent from the latest news.

Well, I was certainly not aware of that. (I assumed 'motion-picture rights' encompassed television as well as movies.) Indeed, this does explain a lot.

(BTW, Tolkien Enterprises is not the Tolkien Estate, it's the Zaentz company that owned the movie rights for the '79 movie, and so were massively involved in ownership issues for all of Jackson's movies.)

And it leaves open an exciting possibility: that the prequel might very well lead to a television adaptation of The Lord of the Rings itself! There's a certain sense to that ... the Jackson work is relatively recent, and well received, so a prequel TV series might be a good way to build up a desire for a new full-fledged adaptation a little further down the road.

Quote:
But the bigger ramifications of all this are far greater than a multi-season Amazon series. The new leadership of the estate seem much more willing to deal Tolkien properties than Christopher was and this confirms my well placed sources.

It certainly seems like Christopher's retirement (Aug 31) was the thing that most triggered this series of events.

And this means that anyone hopeful for Silmarillion material like Beren and Luthien, or Turin Turambar, or the Fall of Gondolin are not hoping fruitlessly.

I have to say, this is looking more and more exciting. (But, in another way, I'm a bit sad, as I respected and empathized with Christopher's intentions.)
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, feel the same way about that last bit.

Of course, as we all know, nothing lasts forever...

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to imagine that the Tolkien extended family is feeling like they deserve a share of those billions.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Probably at least partly right. Very Happy

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