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BIG, EARLY NEWS: Amazon buying LOTR to make a Series
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

High Lord Tolkien wrote:
So far I'm the closest. Very Happy
Are you sure about that? Very Happy

Quote:

APPENDIX A - THE NUMENOREN KINGS - ... Numenor and its line of kings that eventually lead to ruin and the scattering of the realms in exile might work as a multi-season series.


Seems a Numenor series could also be made.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So.....LOTR fan fic? Bah!

Might be good, but it's a bit depressing to see all the stuff of my youth plumbed for every last penny. But I would be excited about a Covenant film.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cagliostro wrote:
But I would be excited about a Covenant film.

We need to pitch it as "ur-Lord of the Ring: Game of Stones".
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't. Not unless it was a series of long films. Very Happy

Think the HBO series idea would probably be best...1 season per book would give you 10...

And GoT is basically over now...

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amazon is looking for it's version of GoT. Unfortunately, LotR will not be the solution. GoT has violence, sex and political intrigue. LOTR is geared to a much different audience and won't pick up the casual viewer that isn't already a fan of fantasy. GoT brought in non-fantasy fans and that's why it's become some a cultural phenomenon. LotR doesn't have a broad enough appeal to achieve that same effect.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

(Nice to see you around, Brinn.)

I agree with all that ... But as I said earlier, I think for the amount of money flying around, someone must have demonstrated a good, practical idea in all this. And the next sensation need not be in the same mold as the previous. Perhaps we shall be surprised.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I disagree, Brinn. You can get boobs in a fraction of a second on the Internet, if that's what you want. No one watches GoT for boobs. That's just bonus. Big Grin If you don't like magic and monsters, the show would be unwatchable. Now, granted, it has great characters and an intricate plot. If not for that, no amount of magic and monsters could capture a widespread audience. However, that just means it's *good* fantasy. If the LOTR series is also good (characters, plot), then it will gain a widespread audience. LOTR is one of the most widely read books in history. It already has a built in audience of millions. The movies made billions. [Someone did demonstrate a potential for financial success of this story in a visual medium: his name was Peter Jackson!] This is a no-brainer.

As SRD says, fantasy is the oldest form of storytelling. I think everyone has the potential to like it, when it's done well. The human spirit is geared toward these metaphors for reasons that are embedded in our DNA.

Besides, there is plenty of violence in LOTR. There is also lots of "political" intrigue. These can be played up, if necessary.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Filming in 2019, airing in 2020?

Quote:
... Amazon has revealed to them that shooting on the new Middle-earth series will begin in 2019, with the goal to begin airing the new first episodes in 2020. The 2020 goal is designed to fill the void Game of Thrones will leave after the final season airs, likely now to be in 2019.

... If accurate, this news suggests that Amazon may be further down the road than we thought in deciding on which story-line(s) from J.R.R. Tolkien's universe they'll follow in the first season. [Link]
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So wait, they're going to squeeze in another season of GoT? Or just delay the last one?

Anyway, maybe agree with Z about GoT still being for fantasy fans, (although, that said, the GF isn't much of one and still watches it), but the magic and monsters certainly weren't much in evidence in the first several seasons...was more like a mediaeval thing...knights in armour type stuff.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's been known for a while that the last season of GoT is pushed way out into Jan (I think) of 2019.

I think GoT is only incidentally fantasy. It's more of a period piece, really - political intrigue wrapped up in personal relationships. That it is in an imaginary world only frees it from being tied to the constraints of real history, allowing a new story to be created. (So in a way it is an alternate history.

You can argue that the same is true about LOTR. But LOTR emphasizes the fantasy elements and the world-building over the rest, while Got emphasizes the politics and the relationships over the rest.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The very first scene of the GoT is a White Walker. Everything after that is set against the backdrop of a faded magic/monsters that are now returning to the world. Even the absence of magic/monsters, in as much as it occurs, is used to emphasize how people have forgotten the magical aspects of their world, a kind of complacency that has lulled them into thinking that the threats of the past are gone, leaving them with more "important" things like political intrigue. But as the story progresses, this is shown to be foolishness, a distraction from what's truly important. Certain vital characters--like Dany--have their destinies entirely driven by this "return of magic" theme by giving birth to her 'children,' which then makes magic stronger for the entire world.

This entire series is a wakeup call for the fantastic, in direct opposition to those who doubt or dismiss it. The overarching plot is a fight against monsters that unites humanity over and above its petty tendencies for political intrigue. It brings out what is human about all of us--despite our familial or political differences--precisely in contrast to inhuman monsters (or corruption of humanity into monsters, since White Walkers came from humans).

This is definitely fantasy.
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Remain faithful to the earth, my brothers, with the power of your virtue. Let your gift-giving love and your knowledge serve the meaning of the earth ... Do not let them fly away from earthly things and beat with their wings against eternal walls. Alas, there has always been so much virtue that has flown away. Lead back to the earth the virtue that flew away, as I do-back to the body, back to life, that it may give the earth a meaning, a human meaning. -Nietzsche
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well sure, but they don't start rubbing your face in it until at least the dragons are big, and even then most "scenes" don't include a magical or fantastical element.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I admit that the magic gets more prevalent as the show proceeds. But I'm stunned that others don't think of this as fantasy. Perhaps it's because it feels so "realistic." Or at least gritty.

Major plots points are determined by magic (e.g. Dany's rise to power). Who wins a war is determined by magic (Stannis vs Renly). Four characters are resurrected from the dead (including Catelyn in the books). Westeros is divided by a giant magical wall, on the other side of which is an Army of the Dead, White Walkers, Children of the Forest, wargs, etc.

Major characters arcs depend crucially upon magic. Arya becomes a magical assassin. Bran becomes the Three Eyed Raven. Melissandrea is a magical priestess. John is the resurrected "prince who was promised." Dany would be nothing if her people hadn't witnessed her survive a fire (not to mention her dragons). Varys was scarred by a wizard making him who he is, a eunuch who is terrified of magic. Stannis is driven entirely by his belief in Melissandrea's magic (to the point of burning his own daughter). The Hound becomes convinced of magic by staring into the flames.
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Remain faithful to the earth, my brothers, with the power of your virtue. Let your gift-giving love and your knowledge serve the meaning of the earth ... Do not let them fly away from earthly things and beat with their wings against eternal walls. Alas, there has always been so much virtue that has flown away. Lead back to the earth the virtue that flew away, as I do-back to the body, back to life, that it may give the earth a meaning, a human meaning. -Nietzsche
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GRRM wrote:
I was also reading a lot of historical fiction. And the contrast between that and a lot of the fantasy at the time was dramatic because a lot of the fantasy of Tolkien imitators has a quasi-medieval setting, but it's like the Disneyland Middle Ages. You know, they've got tassels and they've got lords and stuff like that, but they don't really seem to grasp what it was like in the Middle Ages. And then you'd read the historical fiction which was much grittier and more realistic and really give you a sense of what it was like to live in castles or to be in a battle with swords and things like that. And I said what I want to do is combine some of the realism of historical fiction with some of the appeal of fantasy, the magic and the wonder that the best fantasy has.

As much as I love historical fiction, my problem with historical fiction is that you always know what's going to happen. You know, if you're reading about the War of the Roses, say, you know that the little princes are not going to come out of that tower. Fantasy, of course, doesn't have that constraint. You can still have that driving force, which I think is one of the things that people read books for, what's gonna happen next? I love this character, but god, is he gonna live, is he gonna die? I wanted that kind of suspense.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting. I'd say he successfully merged the two, historical fiction and fantasy.
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Remain faithful to the earth, my brothers, with the power of your virtue. Let your gift-giving love and your knowledge serve the meaning of the earth ... Do not let them fly away from earthly things and beat with their wings against eternal walls. Alas, there has always been so much virtue that has flown away. Lead back to the earth the virtue that flew away, as I do-back to the body, back to life, that it may give the earth a meaning, a human meaning. -Nietzsche
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure. I think the point is that it can be appealing to non-fantasy fans, (like the GF) because if you dip into it at any given point, chances are that it won't be something "fantastical" happening.

As a fan of both fantasy and historical fiction, it works on multiple levels for me. And I sorta like the subtlety of the magic stuff. Most of it is not done with any fanfare.

(Talking only about the books here, haven't been watching the series really.)

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That quote from GRRM that Wayfriend posted above nails it. One is gritty and realistic and the other is more fairy tale fantasy. I hope it's good but it will never be able to match the tone of GoT and many people who tune in thinking they are going to find the next GoT are going to be disappointed.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dunno, if they do something like Numenor, they could make it gritty... Very Happy

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am sure people tuned into season 1 of Game of Thrones expecting the Lord of the Rings. It turned out to be a different kind of thing, and the different kind of thing turned out to be a big hit.

I see no reason to believe this new series can't follow a similar path to a similar result.
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