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Re-Reading MN: Spoilers.
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Cord Hurn
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Avatar wrote:
Well, the Perdon just arrived under attack of Imagery, and vowed to send his dead and wounded to lie at Joyse's feet, conveniently distracting Eremis from Terisa.

--A



That's good in a way, because at this point in the story there's something threatening about Eremis that's hard to assess. Somehow one just knows that Geraden has probably got good reason for not liking him.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But Teresa keeps fawning over him...

--A
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Avatar wrote:
But Teresa keeps fawning over him...

--A



True, and that can be one of the more difficult things to read about in the first book. She knows little about people, thanks to how she was raised under her father's iron control, and somehow buys into the idea Eremis tries to plant in her mind that only he can give her the self-validation she craves. Still, even in the earlier chapters she looks to Geraden for a truthful explanation about anything. It just seems like it takes her a long time make a stand--though when she does, it makes me read the story with increased enthusiasm.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed. Until she does, I keep fuming about her being such a...such a...hell, I don't even know what to call it. Very Happy

--A
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

She was deprived of attention her whole life. Geraden gave her attention, and so she liked him. But Eremis gave her exciting attention, and so it excited her. Eventually she learned. But first she was a noob.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not disagreeing with that. Very Happy Doesn't make her any more pleasant to read though. (I always disliked her early character way more than I ever did Linden. (In the first 2 Chrons anyway. Very Happy ) )

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a theory in psychology that people from abused background fall into recurrent abusive relationship throughout their life.

Terisa never got the love and interest every child needs from her parents. Eremis, the egocentric middleaged ladies' man with the cruel streak reminded her probably subconsciously of her father. It's no wonder his interest in her meant so much to her. Geraden was nice but she was disappointed before. That worker who taught her to play checkers was nice as well but left her when her father found out.

We see that she finally got over her father issues when she meets him again with Geraden in her former apartments. It was a long journey but her parents gave her a lot to deal with
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know, SS. I mean, it's a valid theory. But if you applied it here, Terisa would have gravitated to the guy who ignored her the most. Yes?
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds legit to me...what she lacked was validation, and Eremis offered it in spades.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It can't be an exact match, Wayfriend. Nothing would happen if he was an exact replica of her father.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, okay. But this would not have been the first case of a woman (or a man) being interested in someone very much like their father (or mother), if that had been your suggestion.

Eremis does have other features that would remind Terisa of her father. He's older, well off, urbane, does important things with important people, likes his women. He even doesn't seem to care much about what Terisa wants, and expects her to be obedient to his whim. So he would be a father figure, improved by providing attention.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Well, okay. But this would not have been the first case of a woman (or a man) being interested in someone very much like their father (or mother), if that had been your suggestion.

Eremis does have other features that would remind Terisa of her father. He's older, well off, urbane, does important things with important people, likes his women. He even doesn't seem to care much about what Terisa wants, and expects her to be obedient to his whim. So he would be a father figure, improved by providing attention.


Exactly.

Also, I got the impression her father had a nasty streak. Nothing on the level of Eremis but there were hints. The man is not only powerful. He's also scary to his underlings. Terisa's mother pretends to be a wax doll. Her father doesn't beat her but maybe he did things to her mother.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shadowbinding shoe wrote:
Quote:
Well, okay. But this would not have been the first case of a woman (or a man) being interested in someone very much like their father (or mother), if that had been your suggestion.

Eremis does have other features that would remind Terisa of her father. He's older, well off, urbane, does important things with important people, likes his women. He even doesn't seem to care much about what Terisa wants, and expects her to be obedient to his whim. So he would be a father figure, improved by providing attention.


Exactly.

Also, I got the impression her father had a nasty streak. Nothing on the level of Eremis but there were hints. The man is not only powerful. He's also scary to his underlings. Terisa's mother pretends to be a wax doll. Her father doesn't beat her but maybe he did things to her mother.


Reading MN, I got the impression Terisa's father did something to break her mother's spirit, though perhaps she came into their marriage that way.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course, abuse doesn't have to be physical...

--A
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Avatar wrote:
Of course, abuse doesn't have to be physical...

--A


It certainly doesn't. Indeed, I wouldn't be surprised if someone as emotionally cold as Terisa's father relied mainly on psychological abuse to get his way.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

after the blatant comparison Domne makes between her father and the Cadwal ruler, do you think a scene between Terisa and him would add anything to the story? Also, if Eremis won, would he become the Cadwal (et al) successor with Terisa as his primary mistress?
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shadowbinding shoe wrote:
after the blatant comparison Domne makes between her father and the Cadwal ruler, do you think a scene between Terisa and him would add anything to the story?


Do you mean, a scene between Terisa and Festten? That might have been interesting, especially a scene where he thinks he's captured her and she somehow uses Imagery to vanish in front of him. Festten would looked shocked to the point of nearly being apoplectic, and Gart would for once give a satisfied, "I told you so, you should have let me slay her" look at his High King. It wouldn't add a lot to the story, but it would be a touch of extra entertainment. Incidentally, I think of all Eremis' allies, High King Festten fears Terisa the most, as he sent Gart to kill her shortly after she arrived in Mordant while nothing was known of her except that Geraden found her by Imagery. He never wanted to take a chance on letting her live.

Quote:
Also, if Eremis won, would he become the Cadwal (et al) successor with Terisa as his primary mistress?


It's an idea he pitched to Terisa when she was locked in the dungeon, but she refused the offer, for "she would rather have to fight a man like the Castellan, who at least was loyal to his King, than be seduced by Master Eremis, who was false to everybody". If Eremis had Terisa as his primary mistress, it would be a title with no honor, as he'd likely keep her in chains.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Avatar wrote:
Things finally pick up in the lead-up to the Congery's translation of the champion.

The Tor arrives, poor bastard, the meeting between the Lords and Eremis and Kragen was great, and in the aftermath of the champions destruction, we get a glimpse into the tortured soul of Lebbick.

We also meet Artagel of course, and another dose of Gart and his Apts with him. (And we find out Nyle is in Orison, hiding from everybody...)

--A


I've just gotten to the point in the re-read where the champion had been translated, the rubble has fallen, and the Congery, Artagel, and the guards are trying to rescue Terisa and Geraden before they suffocate under the rubble. As Avatar has said, this is one of the first times we get a glimpse inside Lebbick's head.

In Chapter 14 of The Mirror Of Her Dreams was wrote:
Castellan Lebbick suspected that he was foundering inside. Of course, life in Orison had been going from bad to worse for some time now; but suddenly the purpose of his life had sprung leaks in all directions. Because of the Congery's gamble, he had several crises to deal with at once. But they were only symptoms; they weren't fundamental. As he strode to face them, he was smiling like a hawk; and only his wife--and perhaps King Joyse--had ever known him well enough to realize that this smile was a bad sign. To other people, he probably looked like he was in his element, eager for the conflicts or disasters that would provide an outlet and a justification for his rage. Only his wife and his oldest friend could have understood the particular ferocity of his grin.

Unfortunately his wife was dead--miserably dead, killed by a long, hacking illness that cut her life out as effectively as a knife in her lungs. Nearly a year had passed, and he still missed her so acutely that it seemed to make his guts tremble.

And King Joyse had cast him adrift.

He had refused to hear the Fayle. One way or another, he blocked every vital act, interfered with every hope.

The Castellan clenched his teeth tighter, stretched his smile thinner, and refused to think about it. King Joyse was his reason for living. The passions that had led to the founding of Mordant, the ideals that had inspired the creation of the Congery--these things were the blood in his veins, the air in his chest. He was the King's hands. The King had rescued him--

Now the King had refused to hear the Fayle. He had abandoned it all to die. Mordant and passion and purpose, abandoned it all to die miserably, hacking its life out while Castellan Lebbick cradled it in his arms and couldn't let go.


It hadn't occurred to me to be sympathetic with Lebbick at all until reading this the first time.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Avatar wrote:
In the last chapters of MoHD Terisa finally grows some backbone. Very Happy

The Congery tries Eremis and Geraden, and a new purpose is discovered for Nyle.

On to AMRT now...my favourite of the two.

--A


Yes, and once again Master Quillon proves his value as an undercover ally for Geraden and Terisa, though taking his advice to help Geraden gets her caught by Lebbick.

And I definitely agree with Avatar that AMRT is my favorite of the two MN books.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mostly because Terisa finally woke up. Very Happy

--A
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