Kevin's Watch Forum Index
 HomeHome   MemberlistMemberlist   RegisterRegister   SearchSearch   ProfileProfile   FAQFAQ   StatisticsStatistics  SudokuSudoku   Phoogle MapPhoogle Map 
 AlbumAlbum StoresStores   StoresItems Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Fate of Lord Mhoram's Parents

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Kevin's Watch Forum Index -> The First and Second Chronicles of Thomas Covenant
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Nanothnir
Servant of the Land


Joined: 07 Jan 2018
Posts: 14

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts


105 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:37 pm    Post subject: Fate of Lord Mhoram's Parents Reply with quote

There was something in Lord Foul's Bane that confused me when I read it. It had to do with what happened to Mhoram's parents at the battle of Soaring Woodhelvin.

Before the battle, his parents went and laid down beside each other, and there was what appeared to be an argument between Mhoram and his parents. Then a short while later, they all took positions and the battle started. After the battle, it turned out his parents were dead before the battle began. They were used as bait.

So my question is, how did his parents die? Did they commit suicide together knowing there was no way they would survive anyway, or did they simply pass away? They seemed to be in good enough health to not be on the verge of death. I don't recall the books really clarifying this, and there was nothing that really suggested that they killed themselves.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Fist and Faith
Magister Vitae


Joined: 01 Dec 2002
Posts: 17773

Thanks: 94
Thanked 89 Times in 85 Posts


7391 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Foul Duck1 Lord Mhoram's Victory1 2011 Watchies


PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I kinda figured they gave their strength in some way that helped the others. Never spelled out, that's for sure.

Welcome to the Watch!
_________________
We are not required to save the world. We are required to stand up as truly as we can for what we love. -SRD
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger Phoogle Map
Skyweir
Lord of Light


Joined: 16 Mar 2002
Posts: 7177

Thanks: 11
Thanked 21 Times in 21 Posts

Location: Australia
3670 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Lord's Staff1 Furls Fire


PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome Nanothnir 🤚🏼 Great to have you among us.

Great question. I cant say I can recall precisely but didnt their combined magic pass to the Lords, via Mhoram. A sacrifice rather than a suicide. Life, magic and power released that resulted in their deaths.

When I get home tomorrow I will look it up, and lets talk more about that battle.
_________________
health and healing

'Smoke me a kipper .. I'll be back for breakfast!'
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
wayfriend
whilom witling

Male
Joined: 21 Apr 2004
Posts: 18509

Thanks: 11
Thanked 200 Times in 183 Posts

Location: The world of the Bowling Green Massacre
41834 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In Lord Foul's Bane was wrote:
Covenant was marginally aware that Lord Mhoram no longer attended Prothall and Llaura. He had joined Variol and Tamarantha, and appeared to be arguing with them. They lay side by side on their backs, holding hands, and he stood over them as if he were trying to ward off a shadow. But they were unmoved. Through his protests, Tamarantha said softly, "It is better thus, my son." And Variol murmured, "Poor Llaura. This is all we can do."

It seems to me that they simply lay down and then died. Perhaps they merely allowed their old frames to expire. Perhaps they had some lore which allowed them to expire by force of will. But there's no potion or anything like that mentioned. They just chose to die, and did.

It's a common conceit in literature, I feel, that a person who is very, very old can let themselves die whenever they choose to. As if their will to live was what held them together, and they could just decide to take it away.

Oddly, it seems like Mhoram understood what they intended to do, and objected to it. Did he recognize their intent? Or did they tell him as part of saying good-bye in some way? But he lost the argument ... how can you prevent someone from dying when they can die at will?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Skyweir
Lord of Light


Joined: 16 Mar 2002
Posts: 7177

Thanks: 11
Thanked 21 Times in 21 Posts

Location: Australia
3670 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Lord's Staff1 Furls Fire


PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats perfectly put wayfriend. A wilful death indeed. Was it just age, was there something more. I feel dissatisfied if there was no reason other than expiring. Why then. Maybe their only purpose was expiring lol 😂 but I kinda hope not. I would like to think it served some purpose.

I feel driven now to find a purpose. Mainly because of the timing.

But alas it wouldnt be the first time I was disappointed at finding no higher meaning to such seemingly senseless acts. Yes they were old but not in obvious or overt ill health. Was it their combined time. How was this determined.
_________________
health and healing

'Smoke me a kipper .. I'll be back for breakfast!'
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Nanothnir
Servant of the Land


Joined: 07 Jan 2018
Posts: 14

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts


105 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was the only thing in LFB that really bugged me. It almost feels like it was done as an afterthought in order to demonstrate how Covenant can sometimes be very selfish and demonstrate lack of compassion. After the battle, Covenant was furious because a bloodguard was slain trying to guard two corpses. As Mhoram was mourning their deaths and cremating the remains, you could almost feel that Mhoram wanted to strike Covenant after he said what he said and after he refused the staff. Then he turned around and did basically the same thing when he made fun of SHFF when he was using the fire as a camorra.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
wayfriend
whilom witling

Male
Joined: 21 Apr 2004
Posts: 18509

Thanks: 11
Thanked 200 Times in 183 Posts

Location: The world of the Bowling Green Massacre
41834 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The purpose behind Variol and Tamarantha's death is simple, and explained in the story.
In Lord Foul's Bane was wrote:
"Hold peace for all your grief. Variol and Tamarantha are ended. Who could deny them? They knew the time of their death. They read the close of their lives in the ashes of Soaring Woodhelven, and were glad to serve us with their last sleep. They chose to draw the attack upon themselves so that we might live. Who will say that the challenge which they met was not great? Remember the Oath, and hold Peace."

Of course Covenant came across as an a-hole. That was, as you said, quite intentional. But selfish? Maybe. He refused the staff that was offered, which is the opposite of selfish. Certainly though he didn't consider Mhoram's feelings: he did not accept the gift, and so did not honor the giver. And the burning, well, who could blame Covenant for not foreseeing that outcome. He was consumed by his own confusions and pains by the Battle of Soaring Woodhelven (He himself had killed five Cavewights, five-!), so who are we to judge? It's complex. And Donaldson, I think, did it justice in rendering the complexity well. It is one of the best scenes in the book.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Kevin's Watch Forum Index -> The First and Second Chronicles of Thomas Covenant All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by Earthpower © Kevin's Watch