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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vraith wrote:

BTW...there is now empirical evidence that, roughly speaking...not only is Schrodinger's cat in some weird dual state, but just by WATCHING the box, you can STOP anything from happening...[kinda-sorta, I ain't gonna spoiler your brain thoughts].
A watched cat never lives/dies...[ya see how that weirds out "it isn't either UNTIL you look", right?]
so to speak.


Just link damn it. Razz It's not like anybody is arguing about it. Very Happy Anyway, makes sense. Isn't it a pretty standard assumption in quantum mechanics that simply observing something alters the thing that's being observed?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Avatar wrote:
Vraith wrote:

BTW...there is now empirical evidence that, roughly speaking...not only is Schrodinger's cat in some weird dual state, but just by WATCHING the box, you can STOP anything from happening...[kinda-sorta, I ain't gonna spoiler your brain thoughts].
A watched cat never lives/dies...[ya see how that weirds out "it isn't either UNTIL you look", right?]
so to speak.


Just link damn it. Razz It's not like anybody is arguing about it. Very Happy Anyway, makes sense. Isn't it a pretty standard assumption in quantum mechanics that simply observing something alters the thing that's being observed?

--A

Okay, fine. You're lazy and no fucking fun, though.
It's related to that observation thing...it's just one of the odder particulars.

[[and a little older than I thought---first published about 2 years ago]]


https://phys.org/news/2015-10-zeno-effect-verifiedatoms-wont.html
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am the laziest person I know. (Except maybe the GF...we'd argue about who was lazier, if we weren't so lazy.)

Thanks, interesting article. Very Happy

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mmm.. that was an interesting read

warning probably stupid question alert

... but werent the atoms affected by the light and other external influences and thats what made them unobservable .. not move.

If possible please keep response aimed at a simple mind lol 😂

Please forgive lack of punctuation it is intentional
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skyweir wrote:


... but werent the atoms affected by the light and other external influences and thats what made them unobservable .. not move.


No, if they were then the experiment wouldn't demonstrate anything.
The apparatus shielded the material from external influences.
The temperature put the material in the ground state, and the laser didn't have the energy to cause a change to that ground state.

It's sorta like this:
Imagine you're a cop with a laser speed gun.
While you're zapping away at traffic, you don't expect your gun to stop the cars you tag [[and then take off again as soon as you stop firing]]...they should just keep doing what cars do---killing cats, causing respiratory illness, heat waves, and everyone to think THEY're amazing navigators and talented drivers it's all the OTHER fucks that cause collisions and dangerous traffic.

At least that's what it looks like in that article...it's not exactly comprehensive.

Edited to add: I think I didn't make it clear with my example. In the case of this experiment/prediction, they did, in fact, expect the cars to change behavior...because it's quantum and weird, the prediction was precisely that such a nonsensical seeming thing would happen...and it did.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok .. but didnt the atoms not move when the introduced light to observe them
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skyweir wrote:
Ok .. but didnt the atoms not move when the introduced light to observe them

Yea...as predicted.
And the fact that the prediction was true/correct is precisely the WTF factor.
Everyone "knows" by now that the observer effect is real.
But does anyone at all know why it's real, how it works?
I don't think so...cuz they're fighting about it all the time.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vraith wrote:
Skyweir wrote:
Ok .. but didnt the atoms not move when the introduced light to observe them

Yea...as predicted.
And the fact that the prediction was true/correct is precisely the WTF factor.
Everyone "knows" by now that the observer effect is real.
But does anyone at all know why it's real, how it works?
I don't think so...cuz they're fighting about it all the time.


Certainly I haven't been able to figure out how it works, yet. 3 Monkeys
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

V,
I truly have no idea how that worked. Id love to understand it but .. dont.


So the researchers predicted that the atoms would stop moving when light was introduced and they were right.

I still dont understand why it was the ancillary action of observing the atoms, and not the principal action of the presence of light, that effected the atoms movement, that is the conclusion.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Observer Effect is real because atoms are shy creatures and don't like people looking at them all the time.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hahahaha 😂

Do they mind other beings looking at them or is it just a 😏 people 😏 voyeurphobic thing 🧐
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also if the observer effect is real, doesnt it presume that atoms possess an awareness.

Or even sentience or consciousness.

That seems incredible. I mean ok, maybe atoms possess a degree of consciousness... and it is that awareness that regulated their response .. ceasing movement ..

To me thats some WTF factor, yep WTF .. 😮

Kind of sounds a little like self fulfilling prediction. That the observers have assigned subjectivity element to the observer effect. Is that unreasonable.

I think Im hung up on the observer effect. Of course lacking understanding of the experiments lol 😂

I find it easier to understand the scenario if it was the introduction of light which caused the observer response, caused the atoms to stop moving. A response to the light not being observed.

Ok ok so the is it the light which represents observation. Would the result be the same or similar if the experiment somehow enabled atoms to be observed without light.

I.e give them fluorescent quality or could be viewed with sufficient non to low light spectral range techniques.
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