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Bodach glas?

 
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Dawngreeter
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:29 pm    Post subject: Bodach glas? Reply with quote

In LFB, when Osondrea was asking Birinair about how long it would take to make the Gildenlode keels & rudders for the Giants, Birinair said,
Quote:
"The lore remains. But not easily. The best we can do. Of course. And time - it will need time. Bodach glas, it will need time."

Bodach glas? Is that the equivelant of "egads" or "holy $*&$" ?
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well here I am responding to myself, I found this in the GI.

Quote:
Andrew, Rio, Brazil: Dr. Donaldson,

.....One last question. Was it Birinir who caused subsequent problems for the Giants when he called on the Bodach Glas, while replying to Foamfollower and Osondrea in LFB? (or is that a spoiler?).

Many thanks for your excellent work, long may you continue !



I've read a number of Lester del Rey short stories, but none of his novels. In my opinion--and this is just my opinion--he was an intelligent craftsman rather than an inspired artist. I have no idea what effect his own work may or may not have had on his receptiveness to "Covenant".

Whatever it was that poor Birinair did, he is in no way responsible for anything that subsequently happened to the Giants. (Incidentally, I seem to recall that "Bodach Glas" has a source in English literature; but I no longer remember what it is.)

(08/17/2006)


Hmm, slightly let-down with this answer as I was hoping for some uniquely exotic answer. Oh well.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've mentioned this before, but due to the messed up search function, I don't remember any more than that (is our search function google dependent or vice versa?). However, Donaldson answers a very short question about it in the Gradual Interview.

Yeah, it's definitely a unique exclamation. It also happens to share the same syllabic pattern as 'Jesus Christ.' I don't think the context jives with Wikipedia's statement that "it was used as a pejorative term to refer to peasants or farmers (bothach) by the warrior class amongst the Scots."
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did a quick search on it and it seems that it's Gaelic for "Grey man/ghoul"

Here's a quick description from one site I found, though I'm sure there are more -

Quote:
Bodach, Bodach Glas – A most decidedly malevolent brownie of the Scottish Highlands whose name means Old Man. He is notorious for entering human’s homes in the night and carrying off their children. In his more sinister aspect as the spirit known as Bodach Glas, the Dark Gray Man, he is a potent of a family member’s imminent death.


Found here.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

heres a tale of bodach glas

and I think it means Gray Messenger. or something along that line, iim trying to look it up to find an exact meaning. its Gaelic

OK..Bodach glas ...Glas Gaelic for Gray and Bodach from the Saxon Bode Means a Messenger,
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds to me like Birinair is calling himself an Old Man, saying he's already old and now he is needing more time to do this task. I don't remember if Birinair was old or not. It's been a few months since I read that book.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A necro-bump because I just re-read this passage and I questioned what it meant.

I like the idea of Birinair calling himself an old man, since it was clear that he was one.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the Gradual Interview was wrote:
Darrin Cole: No question just a reference for you.
BODACH
(budagh) The Celtic form of Bugbear, or Bug-A-Boo, literally, 'old man'. It was a Highland belief that the Bodach would creep down chimneys and steal naughty children, although in other parts it was considered to be a death-warning spirit. The Bodach Glas, or Dark Grey Man is a death token, of which Sir Walter Scott makes such effective use in WAVERLEY towards the end of Fergus MacIvor's history.
    Thank you! Now that you've refreshed my memory: yes, "Waverley" is exactly where I got "Bodach Glas". Since I had no reason to believe that I would ever be published, I was just having fun with literary in-jokes.

    (09/03/2006)
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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stephen Donaldson wrote:
Thank you! Now that you've refreshed my memory: yes, "Waverley" is exactly where I got "Bodach Glas". Since I had no reason to believe that I would ever be published, I was just having fun with literary in-jokes.

(09/03/2006)


Odd to have put so much time and effort into a non-starter. Methinks he lied Very Happy

I can imagine grumpy old Birinair being glad for the Giants and would fulfill the promise made to them, but that he was also disappointed important projects would have to wait. I'm thinking about the possible research and production of glass.

I made this suggestion about ten years ago, thinking along the lines of how the Lords might use the floor of polished stone deep in heart of Revelstone to melt and flatten amythest for example. Imagine what they could do with all those colours that flow within the various types of translucent stone.

It hadn't occured to me then, but this is the Land we're talking about. Making windows for Revelstone may even be a way to find one of Kevin's lost wards. The Fourth Ward perhaps, aka the fourth wall.
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems to me, after reading wayfriend's explanation of 'Bodach Glas' (well actually SRD's but you get the point) that the reference was simultaneously a comment about being old and foreshadowing for the demise of the Giants at Coercri (since the Old Man/grey ghoul is also an omen of death).
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see how Birinair could have had any forebodings about the death of the Giants, or himself for that matter. Thomas Covenant had yet to deliver his message to the Council of Lords.

I agree that 'Bodach Glas' does have an ominous undertone. The only other omen that springs to mind is the triple-winged hawk, shot down over Woodhelven. No doubt sent to mock the quest.
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lazy Luke wrote:
I don't see how Birinair could have had any forebodings about the death of the Giants


Unless by pure coincidence I suppose. It seems unlikely.
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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forestal wrote:
Lazy Luke wrote:
I don't see how Birinair could have had any forebodings about the death of the Giants


Unless by pure coincidence I suppose. It seems unlikely.


I don't know if the genre allows for coincedence. Maybe Dan Brown stories for example can use them to good effect. Might they not create clangers within chronologies. I'm no writer, so wouldn't know for sure.

However I do remember not being able to shake off the notion that Tull and Runnik weren't telling the whole truth with their fireside tales. They had their reasons of course, and I imagined it had something to do with finding a time tunnel.

Yeah I know it sounds crazy, but in the movie Interstellar it deals with a similar concept. Sending a robot into the event horizon of a black hole to transmit as much data as possible before it's lost, helping to solve the problem of gravity and give the movie it's positive conclusion and happy ending.
Tull and Runnik may have discovered something similar, providing them with a kind of Einstien-Rosen bridge between Seareach and Soaring Woodhelvin. No doubt created by Kevin.
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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lazy Luke wrote:
I don't see how Birinair could have had any forebodings about the death of the Giants, or himself for that matter. Thomas Covenant had yet to deliver his message to the Council of Lords.

I agree that 'Bodach Glas' does have an ominous undertone. The only other omen that springs to mind is the triple-winged hawk, shot down over Woodhelven. No doubt sent to mock the quest.


It could also been a wink and nod at us, as readers. Perhaps Birinair didn't mean it as an omen of death. They just happen to have a phrase that in our world can mean something else as well. We know something that the characters don't know that the author gave us as an easter egg.
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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nanothnir wrote:
It could also been a wink and nod at us, as readers. Perhaps Birinair didn't mean it as an omen of death. They just happen to have a phrase that in our world can mean something else as well. We know something that the characters don't know that the author gave us as an easter egg.


Oh yeah, I see. Shifty Well, it sure is fun to speculate.
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