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How do the Giants hear the seven words?

 
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Forestal
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:48 pm    Post subject: How do the Giants hear the seven words? Reply with quote

As I understand it, due to their gift of tongues from the Elohim the Giants understand all spoken language. So when a Lord, or anyone else speaks the seven words of power, how does this manifest to a Giant? I don't recall this ever being discussed in any of the chronicles and if it is, I should like to know where so I can look at it.

For example, to visit an invocation that I was looking at earlier, if a Giant were present in Banas Nimoram, when the Unfettered One used some of the words to break up the Celebration of Spring, would they have heard the intention of the words? Or the literal translation of the words? Or some mixture of the two perhaps.
The Unfettered One wrote:
"Melenkurion Abatha! Binas mill Banas Nimoram Khabaal! Melenkurion abatha! Abatha Nimoram!"

A) You must live! Free yourselves from the dance and survive!
B) Bastion/Source endure! Mudpower invocation Heart of Andelain affirmation! Bastion/Source endure! Endure Heart/Andelain!"

(Mudpower since I'm pretty sure that the Unfettered One mis-spoke Binas in place of Minas, Earthpower.)

I'm inclined to believe that it's the intention of the words, rather than the literal definition, which might partially explain why the Giants didn't help the Lords understand Kevin's Wards - they simply were unable to translate, their gift of tongues removed the context of the words, and thus, their intended purpose could be confused or even misleading?
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Note that the Giants of the first Chronicles, the Unhomed, did not have the Gift of Tongues.

Second, consider how the Giants responded when they were finally able to understand the ur-viles in the Last Chronicles. They understood the bare words, but could not grasp the alien ideas that these words conveyed.

From this I conclude that the Giants might have understood the literal translations of the Words of Power, but would not have understood how they evoked power. That would require Lord-lore.

Lastly, you have to consider whether the Gift of Tongues extends to languages which no one speaks. Do they have magic translators in their brains? Or do they sense the meanings in the minds of the persons speaking?
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Probably a Babelfish grew in their ears when they received the Gift from the Elohim Razz
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

😂 ... yep Amy nailed it
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Note that the Giants of the first Chronicles, the Unhomed, did not have the Gift of Tongues.


Do we know this for certain? They translated the Wards for the New Lords.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not for certain.

Foamfollower understood the jheherrin, but only those words that were "in the speech of the old lords". If a gift of tongues was going to be mentioned, it would have been then.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps SRD had not fully conceptualized that aspect, and it was just a point of inconsistency as he expanded the World in preparation for the 2nd and 3rd Chrons? I don't think we'll know for sure unless we ask him. Smile
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We know that the Giants visited Elemesnedene one time and got the Gift, and another time found the recent remains of the Lost. But there's nothing I can find that puts these in chronological order. So we can't tell which came first.

And of course Donaldson hadn't even thought of it yet in the first Chronicles. Still, one may wonder.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:20 pm    Post subject: Re: How do the Giants hear the seven words? Reply with quote

Forestal wrote:
(Mudpower since I'm pretty sure that the Unfettered One mis-spoke Binas in place of Minas, Earthpower.)


Hadn't Lord Foul laughed at the clumsiness of how the 'words of power' were spoken. (In Kiril Threndor?)

Remember, Ramen Covert. Food was served to the company on banana leaves. In Foul's winter the only place for a banana tree would be in the heart of Andelain. Therefore, Banas should probably be pronounced Bananas

A sequential story arc may also be found all the way to the Colossus of the Fall. Where the grip of winter was broken for a few brief moments.
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aren't the Words of Power from the language of the Elohim? the Gift of Tongues would be especially suited to understand the Words.
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Elohim speak it, but it may not be their language.
In Fatal Revenant was wrote:
A moment later, the Theomach said. "This tongue is spoken nowhere, other than by one race that I scorn to name, for it is the language of the Earth's
making and substance rather than of the Earth's peoples.

Also, the "bells" of Elemesnedene also suggest this.

I can think of several likely reasons why this suggests it was not included in the Gift of Tongues.
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