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The Last Great Prejudice
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peter
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

D'you know, I can't remember what prompted me on that day, at that time to make that post Linna, but it is a thing I have been conscious of for a long time, particularly due perhaps to my constant exposure to all of the printed media that passes through the shop. The vacuousness of celebrity culture, the constant focus of the papers and magazines, how beauty just seems to effortlessly rise to the top in our society and ugliness gravitates to the bottom - and all regardless of worth. And no-one ever seems to question it, and how we all by into it.

One of the small pleasures I get from my meeting of thousands of people over the course of a year in the shop is encountering one of the non-beautiful couples, the odd ones out, that come into the shop, blissfully unaware of uncaring of their unexalted position in the attractive stakes, who only have eyes for the beauty they see in each other and care nothing for the complexion of each other's skin. The world is theirs and their joy is a joy to behold.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

peter wrote:
D'you know, I can't remember what prompted me on that day, at that time to make that post Linna, but it is a thing I have been conscious of for a long time, particularly due perhaps to my constant exposure to all of the printed media that passes through the shop. The vacuousness of celebrity culture, the constant focus of the papers and magazines, how beauty just seems to effortlessly rise to the top in our society and ugliness gravitates to the bottom - and all regardless of worth. And no-one ever seems to question it, and how we all by into it.

One of the small pleasures I get from my meeting of thousands of people over the course of a year in the shop is encountering one of the non-beautiful couples, the odd ones out, that come into the shop, blissfully unaware of uncaring of their unexalted position in the attractive stakes, who only have eyes for the beauty they see in each other and care nothing for the complexion of each other's skin. The world is theirs and their joy is a joy to behold.

Well.....

To be joyfully contrary, though---heh...imagine that....the "beautiful people" don't rise without effort---some of them work very hard AND, more importantly, the OTHER people pick them up and put them there.
If I believe I'm beautiful, that and a dollar will get me a cheap ass McDonald's lunch. It's what everyone ELSE believes that gets me the good shit. THEY decide...not me.
If we're gonna stay with the surface/simplistic/reductionist stuff:
Don't be mad cuz the pretty ones have an easy road...be enraged cuz the ugly ones are also dumb and built it for them.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Linna Heartlistener wrote:


Also, something odd that my husband pointed out to me after, I think, reading some analysis... a lot of women's dressing habits, such as trying to dress "sexy" and such... are actually aimed at maintaining female friendships.
I was like, "What? Really?"
And then later, I brought up something related to that to a woman who's way more aware of social norms than I am, esp. regarding fashion.
Her reaction was like, "Aaaaah - high school was horrible! It was like there was this narrow range of what was okay to wear... and everything on one side you'd get criticized for looking bad, and if you go too far over in the other direction you get called slutty."



Back when I was six or so, I had a friend who had her own little makeup kit, and after applying the makeup, she would immediately scrub it off while reciting like a mantra, "You can't have beauty without pain, you can't have beauty without pain." I thought that was a bit messed up even back then - and while it clearly stuck in my mind, I hadn't thought about it in years. But now I wonder - she clearly got it from her mother, but did she pick it up by watching, or did her mother actually teach it to her?

I always thought boys had it easier - fewer cliques, less drama - and in a way that's true even as adults (don't get me started about the women at work), but there's still a whole level of expectations of conformity.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

peter wrote:
...constant exposure to all of the printed media that passes through the shop. The vacuousness of celebrity culture, the constant focus of the papers and magazines, how beauty just seems to effortlessly rise to the top in our society and ugliness gravitates to the bottom - and all regardless of worth. And no-one ever seems to question it, and how we all by into it.
I don't think that last sentence is right, though: I think you hear a lot of people questioning it, and from a variety of angles.

the way I strong reaction to thinking about 'the vacuousness of celebrity culture' is making me think, though..
I've been reviewing things I've said and thought about beauty, and noticing how unsympathetic I have been to people who chase after beauty or admit to following celebrities.

Oh, and I enjoyed your portrayal of a couple "blissfully unaware" of their lack of external beauty. Smile

Sorus wrote:
Back when I was six or so, I had a friend who had her own little makeup kit, and after applying the makeup, she would immediately scrub it off while reciting like a mantra, "You can't have beauty without pain, you can't have beauty without pain." I thought that was a bit messed up even back then - and while it clearly stuck in my mind, I hadn't thought about it in years..
Yeah, that would be unsettling.
When I was young, I very much wished that someone would tell me "all the secrets" that I needed to know for living my life.
(There HAD to be secrets that people knew and I didn't!)
I can see how that might have struck her as something that sounds "deep."
If someone says a thing is attainable, but has a high cost... well, way more believeable than the other way.

Otoh, now I am reminded of other perspectives about beauty that I got to hear around that very age, 6 or 7.
Rod Serling, William Shakespeare, and some archaology/anthropology book I got my hands on.
Serling: "The Eye of the Beholder," one of a number of episodes of "The Twilight Zone" that haunted me - it was so confusing to me when I first saw it... but it made sure that "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" had meaning and was not going to seem like just a cliche.
Shakespeare: Hamlet's dialogue with Ophelia is a bit over-the-top in its cynicism: "...the power of beauty will sooner transform honesty from what it is to a bawd than the force of honesty can translate beauty into his likeness..." but man, the possibility that beauty could destroy honesty scared me good.
Archaology: Non-fiction book telling me that ancient Mayans hung a tiny ball between their childrens' eyes so they would stare at it and become cross-eyed... and had their babies lie in wooden frames to shape their noses so they would be flat. Because they thought crossed eyes and flat noses were beautiful. Such a foreign idea could not fail to fascinate me.

In spite of all that, when I was about 9, magazine ads for products that promised wonderful hair and a beautiful appearance exerted a powerful influence on my imagination.
However, I was convinced that such things would be expensive, and I knew my dad would not be okay with such a waste of money.
So I just imagined a list of which hair products I would try, and what colors of contact lenses... "sometime when I was older."
Within a year of that, I picked up a copy of "Bird Talk" magazine at a library book sale.
I quickly transferred my obsession for wanting to possess beauty to a long list of species of parrots I determined to own "when I grow up."

I was a weird child.
But I think... wow, those are some major influences that got me off that treadmill before it really got going. (That was a trip down memory lane!)
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You sound like a lovely child
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I very much like the notion of finding value in self-image. Investing it in worthwhile pursuits.

This can be done with beauty and without it. I think of Mother Theresa not a particularly fetching woman, but a woman possessed of such great beauty in her service to others.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do see what you have identified Peter - and I believe society is obsessed with a certain kind of imagery - it must not be obese, must not be wrinkly or not fit within certain parameters for beauty or attractiveness.

But these do change, and probably throughout history and across the globe:we see different attributes sought after.. big figured women, skinny women, big noses (Asian countries) small noses (western countries)
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know a lot of Polynesians who absolutely adore really big women. Then Japanese who don't so much. But its not just about gender either - in some cultures the same pressures exist for men as they do for women.

I don't think you have to be society's prescription of beautiful to bare a responsibility to do good works. All humans share in a responsibility to co-exist peacefully, possess a social conscience, pursue actions that will not cause harm to others, and even safeguard others.

I think there is more to be gained through kindness, unconditional love and integrity than plastic surgery in pursuit of a perceived beneficial individual standing.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My husband is a truly beautiful man, he has beautiful looks, but a far more beautiful heart and mind. He is old now and grey and wrinkled but I see the same beautiful man I fell in love with. Did I fall in love with his looks? No. How can that be true, surely a persons attractiveness played its part. Yes it does.

But when I was a young stupid girl I dated a guy who literally adored himself, checked himself out in every reflective surface, he hated his hair touched - cos he blew dry it and you might mess it up!! He was "vanity" incarnate. He became less attractive the more I got to know him.

He is actually repulsive to me LOL shudders .. girlfriends were shocked when I broke up with him. LOL He was shallow, self-absorbed and tbh stupid Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My point is - it is a thing - but its as you said Peter "vacuous" - you see it - most people do see it. The worth of a human is not in their wealth, their looks, their intellect even, it is demonstrated through their works.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like your focus on finding that value Linna
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry for posting like this but it seemed my entire post was not acceptable to the board
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Weird...but cutting it up into little bits worked?

You didn't change anything else?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope - just dissected it into little chunks LOL
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damn board. Rant

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hahahahaha .. it is a little sensitive .. as I have no IT bones in my body I can't imagine the whys .. but yeah .. can be irritating Ahh!

Some days it seems to like me being here - other days not so much Good and Evil

After attempting multiple times to post - I just think "fuck it" and go .. LOL

Then come back and hey presto - no problems!! hahahahahaha
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:37 am    Post subject: Re: The Last Great Prejudice Reply with quote

peter wrote:
Be anything you want in our PC liberal democracies; be disabled, be black, lesbian or gay - take your choice - but don't be ugly. If you are, if you have the misfortune not to have a perfectly symetrical face, the body of an adonis, teeth set by a spirit level - then don't expect to get promotion, don't look for tv or film work, don't expect the path of your life to be smoothed, no matter what area you look at. Your chances of sucess in life are significantly less, in competitions you will have to be extra good to be rated the same, in the courtroom the judge will not look at you as a 'special case'. You will need the mind of a Hawking to overcome the obstacle of your appearence, and one last thing......


.......... don't bother making any whining complaint about it because no one will care , and after all why should they - you're ugly!


While genetics can play a part and some people do get lucky; anyone can improve their appearance. Go to the gym; get a hair cut, dress well, put on make up, get surgery if you need to. Putting effort into your appearance goes a long way. Do you think beautiful people with great bodies just woke up like that?
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not unless theyre Beyonce 😏😎
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it must be even worse if you're someone who is expected to look flawless 100% of the time. Can't have a bad day or you'll end up splashed across the cover of every tabloid in existence. No thanks.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amen to that 😂
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