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How's everyone enjoying their "Global Warming"?
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How do you like the Global Warming so far?
This sucks like all get out!!!!!!!!!
48%
 48%  [ 13 ]
Mildly annoying
14%
 14%  [ 4 ]
Who cares, it's only weather
25%
 25%  [ 7 ]
This is kinda okay
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Man I love this S**t, bring it on!!!!!!!!
11%
 11%  [ 3 ]
Total Votes : 27

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sea level rise is due to thermal expansion of the water, not melting ice. This is a process that has been happening for 1000s of years since the end of the last ice age, and will take centuries more to have any significant impact. Limiting green house gasses will have virtually no effect on this in the short term. In the long term, 500 years from now we should be able to build some awesome dikes. Or some other solution. But it will continue to happen even if we get rid of fossil fuels completely. It's not our doing. It has been happening long before we started using fossil fuels.

Here's how you can tell how insignificant melting ice is: every summer in the northern hemispheres much (if not most) of the northern polar ice cap melts. Do the ocean levels rise every summer? Not really, not enough to make a difference.

The earth is in constant flux. Land rises and falls. All the land masses are floating on magma and being continuously recycled into the planet's mantle. Global warming is a scam to get money out of rich countries. That's it. The Paris Accord would have only a negligible, unnoticeable effect on temperature, at a cost of trillions to the global economy.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skyweir wrote:
PS did you highlight various sections of the article


No, part of the built in formatting I guess.

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
If you live near the water and the water is rising, then here is a free clue: try moving inland. Or live on a boat. I would gladly accept either option in that circumstance.


They don't have anywhere to go, and people don't want them: https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/12/hawaii-micronesia-migration-homeless-climate-change/

Zarathustra wrote:
The Paris Accord would have only a negligible, unnoticeable effect on temperature, at a cost of trillions to the global economy.


Pretty much agree there...been saying for years nothing we do is really going to make much difference.

Doesn't help the guys whose islands are disappearing though.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seeing as how not a single climate doomsayer's prediction has come true, I'm not terribly worried about whatever's happening.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Av, your article admitted that the sinking islands could be due to trade winds and erosion.

Regardless, it's lunacy to alter the global economy because a of a few uninhabited islands. The climate will change no matter what we do. The only way to be prepared for these changes is to have the money and energy to deal with it.

Anyone can stop using fossil fuels anytime you wish. But few of you do. Instead, you try to force others to make changes you are unwilling to make yourselves.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure, could be caused by a whole bunch of different things. Not saying that we should alter the global economy either. Some of those islands aren't uninhabited though. Point is just that changes in climate are going to affect people negatively. And in a lot of cases, the people without money are going to be the ones worst affected.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grrrr... I drafted a post with links and quotes but was deemed unacceptable to the dumb board lol 😂

That or the board got bored 🤷‍♀️ Who knows 😂

But have copied and paste it so I can go back to it when I have my computer .. in a whole weeks time

But yeah you all got served 😛
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paste it into here: http://utils.paranoiaworks.org/diacriticsremover/

Click "Remove Diacritics"

Copy it out, and paste it into the reply box.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarathustra wrote:
Sea level rise is due to thermal expansion of the water, not melting ice. This is a process that has been happening for 1000s of years since the end of the last ice age, and will take centuries more to have any significant impact.


Theyve been tracking melting ice caps now for decades. Its no longer scientifically debatable.

https://nsidc.org/cryosphere/glaciers/questions/climate.html

Quote:
Melting is natural and is counteracted by falling snow that turns to ice and restores the surface area of the glacier. However, with global warming occurring at an unnatural rate, glaciers are melting at a faster rate and not being restored. The only way to slow rapid glacial melting is to slow global warming.Apr 24, 2017


Z said
Z wrote:
Limiting green house gasses will have virtually no effect on this in the short term.


Not according to the science. You can read about it, google it ..


https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/global-warming/big-thaw/

Z said
Z wrote:
In the long term, 500 years from now we should be able to build some awesome dikes. Or some other solution. But it will continue to happen even if we get rid of fossil fuels completely. It's not our doing. It has been happening long before we started using fossil fuels.


And there are things we can do right now to arrest global warming .. according to the science there is still a window.

Read
http://www.thenewecologist.com/2016/02/prevent-glaciers-melting/

Z said
Z wrote:
The earth is in constant flux. Land rises and falls. All the land masses are floating on magma and being continuously recycled into the planet's mantle. Global warming is a scam to get money out of rich countries. That's it. The Paris Accord would have only a negligible, unnoticeable effect on temperature, at a cost of trillions to the global economy.


Well the scam theory has got to be the most ridiculous thing Ive ever heard. Who benefits .. whats the motivation .. If its a scam why does the science tell us the planet is warming, ice caps and glaciers melting, islands disappearing How is it possibly a scam

from the article wrote:
Scientists point out that sea levels have risen and fallen substantially over Earth's 4.6-billion-year history. But the recent rate of global sea level rise has departed from the average rate of the past two to three thousand years and is rising more rapidly-about one-tenth of an inch a year


In Australia weve been surveying these changes for decades now as almost all inhabitants live in coastal cities and locations.

https://amp.livescience.com/40444-climate-change-will-not-spare-global-ocean.html
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No one denies that the planet is heating. It has been doing this ever since the end of the last ice age. That's not the scam.

The scam is that it's an emergency that can only be solved by making rich countries give poor countries their money, or slow down their economies while others do not, or throw trillions of dollars in subsidies toward "Big Green" (because everything scary must be labeled "Big x" LOL). There is a huge financial incentive for people pushing the failed and impractical "green" energy technologies. Those who advocate green energy simply ignore this financial incentive, because they support green energy. But make no mistake, the financial incentive is there and it's massive. They can't make a profit in the free market (because their technology is inefficient and impractical), so they want to force us to subsidize their greed with our tax dollars.

Scam.

The Paris Agreement was a worthless, ineffectual trillion(s) dollar scam.
Quote:

"Paris is being sold as the summit where we can help 'heal the planet' and 'save the world'. It is no such thing. If all nations keep all their promises, temperatures will be cut by just 0.05_C (0.09_F). Even if every government on the planet not only keeps every Paris promise, reduces all emissions by 2030, and shifts no emissions to other countries, but also keeps these emission reductions throughout the rest of the century, temperatures will be reduced by just 0.17_C (0.3_F) by the year 2100.


And from Wikipedia:

Quote:
A study published in the August 1, 2017, Nature found that all major industrialized nations are failing to meet the pledges they made in the Paris Agreement. In addition to failing to meet their reduction pledge amounts, the countries are not even enacting all the policies that they planned to do in order to meet their pledged reduction of CO2 output.[78]

In addition, an MIT News article written on April 22, 2016 discussed recent MIT studies on the true impact that the Paris Agreement had on global temperature increase. Using their Integrated Global System Modeling (IGSM) to predict temperature increase results in 2100, they used a wide range of scenarios that included no effort towards climate change past 2030, and full extension of the Paris Agreement past 2030. They concluded that the Paris Agreement would cause temperature decrease by about 0.6 to 1.1 degrees Celsius, with only a 0.1 C change in 2050 for all scenarios. They concluded that, although beneficial, there was strong evidence that the goal provided by the Paris Agreement could not be met in the future under the current circumstances.[79]


And another link about the negligible effect and vast cost of cutting fossil fuel use.

Now, on to glaciers. Why do people think that melting glaciers are a problem? Much of North America was under glaciers in the ice ages. If the Chicken Littles had been around at the end of the last ice age when those glaciers receded, I imagine they would have panicked just as they do now. Because change terrifies them. But the recession of those glaciers gave us America, not to mention much of Europe. Awesome. Glaciers suck. What a waste of land. Stop panicking. Change can be good.

Sky, from your own link:

Quote:

Scientists, still trying to piece together all of the data they are collecting, want to find out whether human-induced global warming is tipping the delicate balance of the world's glaciers.


Gee, I thought you said the science was unquestionable. So why do the scientists still have questions???

Again, from your other link:

Quote:
Scientists who assess the planet's health see indisputable evidence that Earth has been getting warmer, in some cases rapidly. Most believe that human activity, in particular the burning of fossil fuels and the resulting buildup of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, have influenced this warming trend.


"Most believe that ..." is not the same as saying the science is unquestionable. It's a belief. A working theory. They're still gathering evidence. Stop acting like it's a settled question.

The alarmists are always more certain than the scientists. Laughing
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarathustra wrote:
The scam is that it's an emergency that can only be solved by making rich countries give poor countries their money


This has always been my problem with the whole situation--it isn't an emergency. Despite this, all disaster scenarios are often presented as "by the end of the century" or some other time frame which is far enough in the future that current research and/or news stories will be long-forgotten by then. Why do they do this? It is so they can make a wild claim, insist that something be done right now, then if the prediction turns out not to be true in the future no one will know, or remember, or care.

There are other, more pressing, more disastrous, and more immediate problems on the international stage which definitely need to be addressed right now, such as the slave markets of refugees in places like Libya, where you can buy a refugee worker for about $400.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As is so often the case, it's more important to appear to be doing something, than actually doing something.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mayhap you have a point .. that some think that way .. some governments think that .. but its obviously an ineffective contribution 😂

Not sure how global warming is a scam geared to take resources from the rich to give to the poor .. as Robin Hoodian as that may sound 😏

Corporate manufacturing industries are encouraged to reduce emissions, some are even given fiscal incentives to make green changes. 🤷‍♀️ Still not seeing the scam 🤷‍♀️

Emissions reduction isnt really wealth vs non wealth .. dont the developing and underdeveloped nations of the world produce less emissions and general pollutants than the the developed nations anyway. 🤷‍♀️

Scratches head 🤔
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarathustra wrote:
Anyone can stop using fossil fuels anytime you wish. But few of you do. Instead, you try to force others to make changes you are unwilling to make yourselves.


Who are the you you are referring to 🤷‍♀️

And who is FORCING who to make what changes 🤷‍♀️

What are we .. or the you forcing us to do and who is not willing to make I assume .. environmentally responsible changes to our behaviour, our industries and manufacturing processes, farming practices and how we transport ourselves and others.

Most of the agricultural industry here use environmentally sustainable farming practices .. why would they do that ... because its more cost effective and some practices receive subsidies and tax breaks for doing so.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skyweir wrote:

Emissions reduction isnt really wealth vs non wealth .. dont the developing and underdeveloped nations of the world produce less emissions and general pollutants than the the developed nations anyway. 🤷‍♀️

Scratches head 🤔


Strangely enough, it is often the developing nations who produce more emissions because they are trying to get their economies up to speed. As is the case in already-developed countries, the corporations in those nations dump money on politicians to make sure than nasty old regulations regarding safety and emissions do not apply to them (or even exist, in some cases). Factories in those places can cut corners that a factory here could not.

The reason that it appears that climate agreements seem to be Robin Hood is because one of the big components of those agreements is how much money already-developed countries are required to cough up to fund whatever plan is being proposed.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good points well made.

Thought Id see if that is correct.

But it would seem it doesnt align with the research _ China and the US and Australia are way up the top as the world's largest polluters and contributing the most greenhouse gasses.



http://www.wri.org/blog/2017/04/interactive-chart-explains-worlds-top-10-emitters-and-how-theyve-changed

https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/10296/economics/top-co2-polluters-highest-per-capita/
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But why should anyone care about that? Or any of this? Why is this issue more important than other issues I have mentioned before?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well the whys are one question. I was addressing the question of the worst polluters 😏 to see if you developing nations were higher green house contributors and theyre not

Perhaps combined they may be 🤷‍♀️

I thought it useful to set the record straight.

So why do people care .. I guess some people think it might be good to reduce emissions where possible and practicable.

Also as I said in another post, environmentally responsible practices are most often cost effective and come with financial incentives. 🤷‍♀️ Win win in my book. But perhaps thats just in Australia. And a number of other similarly minded nations. After all we are big contributors to greenhouse gas emissions, are a wealthy nation so why not eh 🤷‍♀️
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skyweir wrote:
Well the whys are one question. I was addressing the question of the worst polluters 😏 to see if you developing nations were higher green house contributors and theyre not


Not a problem--I have been incorrect before and at some point I will be again.

Not all environmentally responsible practices are cost-effective--there is no way I could afford to put the solar panels on the house like I want to, not until the teens are out of college--so I have to keep using the energy plan where all my usage comes from renewable sources. (caveat: I am not an idiot--I know that the actual energy I use doesn't come directly from the renewable sources, only that my usage is part of the collective amount of energy generated from the renewable sources)

Some people definitely care because they believe that rising sea levels and/or changes in green belts will cause mass migrations and mass starvation. I will never ascribe to such doom-and-gloom scenarios. My primary problems with this topic have been 1) that too many people see only negative outcomes and 2) the negative outcomes are always at some unspecified point in the future without anyone giving a definitive timeline for them happening. If you don't know that x is going to happen by such-and-such date then how do you know it is going to happen at all? That is nothing more than a wild guess.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im living for today Hashi 😁 and thats in my view the best way to live. Live for today with an eye for tomorrow

I dont know what the future holds, science fact .. as opposed to science fictions .. thankfully provides the insight we would not ordinarily have.

Yes individuals may not be capable of implementing cost effective measures ironically because the initial outlay may prove prohibitive. Definitely.

I refer to business incentives, I.e. sustainable farming practices, industries, transport modes I.e. public, private .. commercial rail, road, air and sea transport systems practices, that attract tax and other fiscal incentives.

Sadly individuals are less financially or in particular fiscally incentivised 🙁
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skyweir wrote:
...environmentally responsible practices are most often cost effective and come with financial incentives.


Efficiency is cheaper, and efficiency usually means cleaner (less waste). That's why all the major pollutants in the US were already declining prior to the government imposing emissions standards (even prior to the creation of the EPA), because rich industries developed better technology that wasted less and were thus cleaner. This is why I think the environment is best served by the free market and property rights, not government mandates.

However, this is a global warming thread. The "emissions" in this case are greenhouse gasses, mainly CO2. CO2 isn't a pollutant. Plants need it just like we need oxygen. If "green" energy were more cost effective, then there would be absolutely no debate. Everyone would just switch to the cheaper product. But wind and solar aren't cheaper. Nor are they consistent or scalable. They are also inefficient, because every wind/solar power generator must be backed up by a fossil fuel generator on standby, which is forced to operate at reduced efficiency due to constantly starting and stopping to make up the gaps in wind/solar energy (just like stop and go city driving vs highway).

Forcing people to use more expensive, less efficient, less reliable energy sources--and then forcing them to subsidize those industries with their tax dollars--is a scam. Literally. Not only is it a rip-off, but it won't work. You cannot meet the world's energy needs with "green" energy (not unless you're talking about nuclear, but greenies don't like that either).

Things that a) cost you money that you don't need to spend and b) don't work are by definitions scams.

But GW activists don't care about these facts, because all they care about is reducing CO2 at all costs. But those costs won't be paid only by the rich. All of humanity will pay the costs. It will hit the poor the hardest. The developing world needs energy to climb out of poverty, but the GW movement is hampering their access to energy.

America has already significantly reduced its CO2 production with the natural gas boom that is happening here. Most people haven't even heard about it, because it's being done with a fossil fuel--which goes against the GW alarmism.


Quote:
According to the Energy Information Administration (EIA), U.S. carbon dioxide emissions were 2.5 percent less in 2015 than in 2014. In fact, since 2007, when they peaked, carbon dioxide emissions in the United States have been reduced by 12.2 percent. According to the Washington Times, the United States has reduced its carbon dioxide emissions more than virtually any other nation in the world.[i] For comparison, the European Union, which has spent $1.2 trillion on support for wind, solar and bio-energy, increased its carbon dioxide emissions by 0.7 percent in 2015 over 2014 levels. The biggest increase was in Belgium, where carbon dioxide emissions increased by 4.7 percent.[ii]

The U.S. achievement is not due to the Obama administration policies that will end up costing Americans plenty in the future. In reality, it's thanks to the development of hydraulic fracturing, and its use in producing natural gas from shale formations, such as the Marcellus in Pennsylvania. Unfortunately, both Democratic candidates (Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders) are against hydraulic fracturing, despite the carbon dioxide reductions it has produced.

The European Union has formulated policies against the use of hydraulic fracturing, has provided substantial support for the development of intermittent wind and solar technologies and biofuels, and has incorporated carbon reduction programs to reduce carbon dioxide emissions. As a result, the average European pays 26.9 cents per kilowatt-hour for electricity-more than 2.5 times the average cost to a U.S. consumer. Denmark, which generates almost 40 percent of its generation from wind[iii], and Germany, which generates almost 33 percent from renewable energy[iv], have the highest electricity bills in Europe, paying about 39 cents per kilowatt-hour because of their support for "green energy." These policies have not provided them with the environmental benefits they expected. As a result, these countries are now backing away from green energy. Denmark, for example, is reducing its spending on research for "green energy" by 67 percent.[v]


link

So we pay less than half for our electricity than Europeans, while also reducing our CO2 emissions 12%. Theirs have only increased.

Green energy is dumb. It's a (you guessed it) scam.

[Someone fix the damn board! LOL]
_________________
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Remain faithful to the earth, my brothers, with the power of your virtue. Let your gift-giving love and your knowledge serve the meaning of the earth ... Do not let them fly away from earthly things and beat with their wings against eternal walls. Alas, there has always been so much virtue that has flown away. Lead back to the earth the virtue that flew away, as I do-back to the body, back to life, that it may give the earth a meaning, a human meaning. -Nietzsche
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