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Where in the hell did they find that?
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:59 pm    Post subject: Where in the hell did they find that? Reply with quote

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/money-for-police-cannot-be-pegged-to-cooperation-with-ice-judge-rules/ar-AAvP5YR?ocid=ientp

So let me get this straight;

If I agree to give someone money, with the stipulation that they have to wear black athletic shoes.....

according to this judge, I can't refuse give the person money because they refuse to cooperate with the stipulations I imposed.

Why does this seem to be wrong. Heck I remember that the Fed made the whole country raise the drinking age to 21 or face the withholding of Fed dollars for road building.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok give them a penny and say you defer them to a bank.
And you want interest on the penny.

Besides.. the judge was in California... Should have recused
because of possible bias.
Precedence has been set by the Feds on other issues.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Won't stand up to appeal. Many, many courts have ruled that the government can withhold money (drinking age, speed limit, etc), and that immigration policy is a federal, not a state issue.

Freaking California.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Judicial activism. Laughing Of course, I am not personally a fan of the whole concept of the Federal government using financial leverage in order to bully states into making 21 the legal drinking age, etc. Then again, all of these judges are making themselves look like fools because it is obviously a partisan attack against virtually every policy that Trump comes up with just because they loathe Trump.

Anyone with a braincell can see that the Federal government absolutely has the power to withhold funding for basically any reason whatsoever. If a local government wishes to ignore immigration laws and set up sanctuaries for illegal immigrants, then they should expect to see some ramifications from the Federal government. It isn't like the Federal government is FORCED to provide funding no matter what. It doesn't make any sense.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cail wrote:
Won't stand up to appeal. Many, many courts have ruled that the government can withhold money (drinking age, speed limit, etc), and that immigration policy is a federal, not a state issue.

Freaking California.


Yeah, I can see the SCOTUS overuling that one in a hurry.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting .. not so much the funding issue but the seperation of federal government and state government 🤷‍♀️

Seems crazy that cooperation between federal and state agencies would be viewed positively and encouraged.

Is it actually not that way in the US 🤷‍♀️

The funding issue is interesting .. its not unusual to apply conditions to grants etc.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

love this! I no longer have to go to work, but they still have to pay me!!!! Mr. Green
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skyweir wrote:
Interesting .. not so much the funding issue but the desperation of federal government and state government 🤷‍♀️

Seems crazy that cooperation between federal and state agencies would be viewed positively and encouraged.

Is it actually not that way in the US 🤷‍♀️

The funding issue is interesting .. its not unusual to apply conditions to grants etc.


In theory the individual states are separate entities from the Federal Government. In practice, since the American Civil War (or the War of Northern Aggression as we call it here in the South Big Grin ), the Federal Government essentially trumps (no pun intended) all state laws.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rawedge Rim wrote:
In practice, since the American Civil War (or the War of Northern Aggression as we call it here in the South Big Grin ),


Ahhh my people have spoken!! Smile Cheers
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rawedge Rim wrote:
Skyweir wrote:
Interesting .. not so much the funding issue but the desperation of federal government and state government 🤷‍♀️

Seems crazy that cooperation between federal and state agencies would be viewed positively and encouraged.

Is it actually not that way in the US 🤷‍♀️

The funding issue is interesting .. its not unusual to apply conditions to grants etc.


In theory the individual states are separate entities from the Federal Government. In practice, since the American Civil War (or the War of Northern Aggression as we call it here in the South Big Grin ), the Federal Government essentially trumps (no pun intended) all state laws.


Ahhhh yes ... thats how it normally works. However, despite having that federal gov trump card 😏 pun noted .. I would think cooperation would be encouraged and .. per the issue of federal grants, incentivised. 🤷‍♀️

I dont think despite this ruling .. it would survive higher court challenge.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rawedge Rim wrote:
Skyweir wrote:
Interesting .. not so much the funding issue but the desperation of federal government and state government 🤷‍♀️

Seems crazy that cooperation between federal and state agencies would be viewed positively and encouraged.

Is it actually not that way in the US 🤷‍♀️

The funding issue is interesting .. its not unusual to apply conditions to grants etc.


In theory the individual states are separate entities from the Federal Government. In practice, since the American Civil War (or the War of Northern Aggression as we call it here in the South Big Grin ), the Federal Government essentially trumps (no pun intended) all state laws.
Right, and withholding funding is typically how the Feds compel the states.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A judge occupying a higher bench can easily overturn this decision. Failing that, I would cut that grant money completely, then when police departments ask "why didn't we get any money?" I would tell them "go ask Mike Feuer out in Los Angeles".

This is just another case of "legislating from the bench"--judicial overreach is sometimes difficult to fight against, because it usually requires amending the law to circumvent a judge's ruling. Besides, there is no such thing as a "permanent" injunction.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.npr.org/2018/04/18/603525897/tennessee-strips-250-000-from-memphis-as-payback-for-removing-confederate-statue


works for me. should be a model of how to handle such things, sorta "Do what you want, but realise that there are consequences.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Winston from 1984 wrote:
Do you realize that the past, starting from yesterday, has been actually abolished? If it survives anywhere, it's in a few solid objects with no words attached to them, like that lump of glass there. Already we know almost literally nothing about the Revolution and the years before the Revolution. Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book has been rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street and building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And that process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right. I know, of course, that the past is falsified, but it would never be possible for me to prove it, even when I did the falsification myself. After the thing is done, no evidence ever remains.


Where will the revisionists turn when there are no more Confederate monuments to remove and/or destroy?

Yes, the foundation of the Confederacy was wrong but removing historical monuments in at attempt to create "safe spaces" where people don't have to face the past is worse....or, at the very least, equivalent--these people are creating mental slavery so they don't have to be reminded of physical slavery.

What is going to happen when these "let's remove the past" people, some of whom are quite savvy and devote their free time to pouring over every iota of historical records, start publicly calling out people who are alive now because one their distant ancestors who lived 170 years ago owned a slave? It is only a matter of time until this happens.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That might be a bit of an overreach .. I see that some aspects in history are offensive. But I agree we shouldnt pursue a whitewashing of history .. its not useful or productive.

However that does not mean that we should memorialise historical wrongs ... and I think thats what this is actually about.

Removing the memorials to people and events that impact on a humans present. Yea remove them .. the history still remains whether a memorial is taken down or not.

I mean you can look at it as a cost benefit analysis .. what are the costs of such an action and how does that rank against the benefits. 🤷‍♀️

I would be surprised if anyone wants to rewrite history itself .. that WOULD be harmful .. and we need that to prevail so we can learn from the mistakes of the past.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skyweir wrote:
Removing the memorials to people and events that impact on a humans present. Yea remove them .. the history still remains whether a memorial is taken down or not.


The problem is that history which is not visible via monuments, plaques, or statues which people can see, even if we disagree with whatever is being memorialized, becomes lost. Most people study history only when they are in a class and they have to pass it; once they are out of school they couldn't care less about what happened 25, 50, 100, or more years ago, even if that history is horrendous and should never be repeated.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well that is a sweeping generalisation. The fact that there are academics, historian, a wealth of recorded history .. is a counter to this .. so should anyone ever want to learn about their history.

With the advent of the internet, more and more knowledge is readily accessible. Universities still teach history, history itself will not dissipate because of a removal of a statue memorial.

And there is little someone who seeks to learn about history .. can learn from a statue .. theyd be better served going to a library in person or a digital one.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skyweir wrote:
Well that is a sweeping generalisation. The fact that there are academics, historian, a wealth of recorded history .. is a counter to this .. so should anyone ever want to learn about their history.


My point exactly--only very few people want to learn history.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its ok Hashi .. it really is


A monument is not going to TEACH history .. history is not going to be wiped out by the removal of a monument. History itself will remain in tact. Its not going anywhere .. whether folks are inclined to learn it or not.

It is taught in schools, universities, forms of it are available in television media, and it is accessible digitally.

Removing a monument will not change history.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

True enough as far as it goes. In fact, we could argue that monuments themselves present only a very distorted view thereof...

--A
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