Kevin's Watch Forum Index
 HomeHome   MemberlistMemberlist   RegisterRegister   SearchSearch   ProfileProfile   FAQFAQ   StatisticsStatistics  SudokuSudoku   Phoogle MapPhoogle Map 
 AlbumAlbum StoresStores   StoresItems Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Trump Attacks Syria
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Kevin's Watch Forum Index -> Hile Troy's Think-Tank
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Kizza
Pointer and Quaffer

Male
Joined: 11 May 2017
Posts: 132

Thanks: 4
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts

Location: South Australia
602 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Diamondraught


PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cail wrote:
Obama made a Red Line and then failed to back up his words. Obama allowed Iran to be a controlling party in the ME. Obama's foreign policy was horribly weak, and as a result we got devastation in Syria, and an out-of-control Iran. Had Obama shown any aptitude or understanding of geopolitical reality, we wouldn't have had the ISIS issue, and there'd be a lot fewer dead Syrians.


Oooh, right on. Obama had the chance to make sure that any bullies from a field of many who want to play rough will learn the meaning of US hegemony. You know that gets me thinking from a different perspective. Obama is easily the reason behind the poor performance of the ownership at the New York Jets...... He could well be holding up the cure for cancer too!

I am starting to feel so sorry for Donald. The self proclaimed genius voted in by the democratic process which Obama probably ruined for future generations.

Glasses down Bring back the UN..
_________________
She's mad, but she's magic.
There's no lie in her fire.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Cail
Purveyor of dick jokes

MaleRanyhyn
Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Posts: 37520

Thanks: 15
Thanked 109 Times in 100 Posts

Location: Hell of the Upside Down Sinners
17634 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH1 Haruchai1 2010 Watchies


PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kizza wrote:
Cail wrote:
Obama made a Red Line and then failed to back up his words. Obama allowed Iran to be a controlling party in the ME. Obama's foreign policy was horribly weak, and as a result we got devastation in Syria, and an out-of-control Iran. Had Obama shown any aptitude or understanding of geopolitical reality, we wouldn't have had the ISIS issue, and there'd be a lot fewer dead Syrians.


Oooh, right on. Obama had the chance to make sure that any bullies from a field of many who want to play rough will learn the meaning of US hegemony. You know that gets me thinking from a different perspective. Obama is easily the reason behind the poor performance of the ownership at the New York Jets...... He could well be holding up the cure for cancer too!

I am starting to feel so sorry for Donald. The self proclaimed genius voted in by the democratic process which Obama probably ruined for future generations.

Glasses down Bring back the UN..
No, that's not it at all, and certainly not what I've said. A humanitarian crisis was occurring in Syria, and Obama did nothing. He talked tough, but he caved and didn't follow through. I don't believe that military action was justified, but his "red line" was a joke, and it made him and the US look foolish.

The UN didn't do anything either.

I don't agree with what Trump did, however the case can be made that it's a foul necessity. The case has been made that the world failed miserably to intervene in the Holocaust, Cambodia, Rwanda, and other cases of mass killing/genocide. It's inconsistent to excuse the Syrians when we look at the failure to act on those tragedies. The fact that the US acted with France and England in this case destroys the, "US hegemony" argument, and makes this a different situation than Libya a few years ago.

For over a decade here, I've argued against the idea that the US should act unilaterally as the world cop. I still believe that.
_________________
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Again, the administration intentionally hoodwinks us by framing the debate as about fighting terrorism and not about withdrawing the rights granted us by the Constitution." - Unattributed under duress
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
Island of Baroque Weirdos
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
Kizza
Pointer and Quaffer

Male
Joined: 11 May 2017
Posts: 132

Thanks: 4
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts

Location: South Australia
602 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Diamondraught


PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As you've called it a foul necessity, and so may it be. Just don't see how it can be thrown at the feet of a bloke who hasn't been in office for over a year.

What if the world doesn't want the US as the world police?
Don't get me wrong, I love (damn near worship the NFL) many things the US is responsible for, but there are many that I would run a mile from.
It is true, I do not like the celebrity president. But worse, I don't like a bully with a loudmouth, table-banger at its head. The consequences are raising the profile of a potential 3rd WW, which no one could gladly want.
_________________
She's mad, but she's magic.
There's no lie in her fire.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Cail
Purveyor of dick jokes

MaleRanyhyn
Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Posts: 37520

Thanks: 15
Thanked 109 Times in 100 Posts

Location: Hell of the Upside Down Sinners
17634 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH1 Haruchai1 2010 Watchies


PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First, we're nowhere near WW3. That's just fear mongering.

Second, Obama's miserable foreign policy is a matter of record. Specifically, his failure to do anything regarding the mess in the ME. You may not want to see it, but it's fact that he left the ME in worse shape than he got it. It's easy to armchair quarterback with the benefit of hindsight, but there's 8 years of posts here that documented his mishandling of nearly everything. I didn't vote for Trump, but I have to give him credit for what it appears he's accomplished so far. NK and SK are talking. ISIS is effectively defeated. That's real progress.

Finally, I'm glad that the world doesn't want the US as it's cop. As a US taxpayer, I don't want us doing it either. If a candidate ran on an, "Island America" platform, I'd vote for them.
_________________
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Again, the administration intentionally hoodwinks us by framing the debate as about fighting terrorism and not about withdrawing the rights granted us by the Constitution." - Unattributed under duress
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
Island of Baroque Weirdos
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
Kizza
Pointer and Quaffer

Male
Joined: 11 May 2017
Posts: 132

Thanks: 4
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts

Location: South Australia
602 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Diamondraught


PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When the presidents of the US and Russia are laying threats on eachother, and mentioning shiny new missiles in the process along with swift retribution, then that is on the way to a world war enough for me.
One ship gets picked off and it will be on for young and old.
As for the last 8 years of president bashing, I haven't been here. But I didn't just fall out of a tree either.
_________________
She's mad, but she's magic.
There's no lie in her fire.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Cail
Purveyor of dick jokes

MaleRanyhyn
Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Posts: 37520

Thanks: 15
Thanked 109 Times in 100 Posts

Location: Hell of the Upside Down Sinners
17634 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH1 Haruchai1 2010 Watchies


PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We're nowhere near a shooting war with the Russians. Putin is old-school KGB, and he's posturing. He's used to dealing with a president that gave him the Crimea, not one that's not going to stand for that crap. Trump's flaws are many, but he's already shown himself to be far more adept at dealing with geopolitics than his predecessor.
_________________
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Again, the administration intentionally hoodwinks us by framing the debate as about fighting terrorism and not about withdrawing the rights granted us by the Constitution." - Unattributed under duress
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
Island of Baroque Weirdos
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
Kizza
Pointer and Quaffer

Male
Joined: 11 May 2017
Posts: 132

Thanks: 4
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts

Location: South Australia
602 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Diamondraught


PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And I genuinely hope it stays that way. Has The Simpsons done a war show yet?
_________________
She's mad, but she's magic.
There's no lie in her fire.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Skyweir
Lord of Light


Joined: 16 Mar 2002
Posts: 9297

Thanks: 12
Thanked 27 Times in 27 Posts

Location: Australia
7627 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Lord's Staff1 Oath of Peace1 Furls Fire


PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hahahaha LOL

Such a wealth of material with Trump at the helm Laughing
_________________
health and healing

'Smoke me a kipper .. I'll be back for breakfast!'
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Ur Dead
The Gap Into Spam

Male
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 1546

Thanks: 5
Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts


1745 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Translation1 Diamondraught1 Lord's Staff


PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kizza wrote:
Has The Simpsons done a war show yet?


Don't know but they predicted Trump would run and become President..
With that, I'm not going to join the church of Homer either.
(beer drink and head smacking daily)
_________________
What's this silver looking ring doing on my finger?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
Skyweir
Lord of Light


Joined: 16 Mar 2002
Posts: 9297

Thanks: 12
Thanked 27 Times in 27 Posts

Location: Australia
7627 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Lord's Staff1 Oath of Peace1 Furls Fire


PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mmm... duff ... drools 😋
_________________
health and healing

'Smoke me a kipper .. I'll be back for breakfast!'
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Zarathustra
Be True


Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 17010

Thanks: 36
Thanked 171 Times in 164 Posts


16531 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kizza wrote:
As you've called it a foul necessity, and so may it be. Just don't see how it can be thrown at the feet of a bloke who hasn't been in office for over a year.
Obama himself blamed the poor performance of the U.S. economy on his predecessor for 8 years. When did this new standard begin that past presidents have no impact on today's events?

Obama drew a "red line," then didn't follow through. You don't think that could embolden Assad to test our resolve?

I agree that the situation with Russia is precarious, but again, how did we get here? If we cower every time Putin says, "missile," it's no wonder that the bastard does whatever he wants.

Yes, we are a hegemony. You say it like it's an insult. Why would we be ashamed of being the most powerful and influential power on the planet?
_________________
Meaning is created internally by each individual in each specific life: any attempt at *meaning* which relies on some kind of external superstructure (God, Satan, the Creator, the Worm, whatever) for its substance misses the point (I mean the point of my story). -SRD

Remain faithful to the earth, my brothers, with the power of your virtue. Let your gift-giving love and your knowledge serve the meaning of the earth ... Do not let them fly away from earthly things and beat with their wings against eternal walls. Alas, there has always been so much virtue that has flown away. Lead back to the earth the virtue that flew away, as I do-back to the body, back to life, that it may give the earth a meaning, a human meaning. -Nietzsche
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Skyweir
Lord of Light


Joined: 16 Mar 2002
Posts: 9297

Thanks: 12
Thanked 27 Times in 27 Posts

Location: Australia
7627 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Lord's Staff1 Oath of Peace1 Furls Fire


PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ugh 🙄.. ok ok but its time to move on ..

The here and now .. theres so much happening now ..
_________________
health and healing

'Smoke me a kipper .. I'll be back for breakfast!'
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Zarathustra
Be True


Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 17010

Thanks: 36
Thanked 171 Times in 164 Posts


16531 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moving forward now involves learning from the past. If we can't admit that Obama made a mistake with his failure to follow through on the red line, then we can't learn from our past. And so many are more concerned with shielding Obama from criticism than learning from his mistakes.

We will be dealing with the fallout of Obama's mistakes for many years. We can't correct them if we don't acknowledge them.

For instance, his bullshit policy that led to an exlosion of violence in the school district of the Florida shooter. Have you read Cail's article? Or is February too far in the past for you to consider?
_________________
Meaning is created internally by each individual in each specific life: any attempt at *meaning* which relies on some kind of external superstructure (God, Satan, the Creator, the Worm, whatever) for its substance misses the point (I mean the point of my story). -SRD

Remain faithful to the earth, my brothers, with the power of your virtue. Let your gift-giving love and your knowledge serve the meaning of the earth ... Do not let them fly away from earthly things and beat with their wings against eternal walls. Alas, there has always been so much virtue that has flown away. Lead back to the earth the virtue that flew away, as I do-back to the body, back to life, that it may give the earth a meaning, a human meaning. -Nietzsche
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hashi Lebwohl
Director of Data Acquisition

Male
Joined: 06 Jul 2009
Posts: 10889

Thanks: 20
Thanked 98 Times in 94 Posts

Location: UMCPHQ
60749 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Caesure1 Insequent1 UMCPHQ


PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let us not bring that issue into this thread--one topic per thread, if at all possible, please.

It was clear that Obama was out of his depth very early in his first term when Putin moved missile batteries closer to NATO countries and Obama did...nothing. He didn't even mention it. That told Putin--and others--everything they needed to know about Obama. Obama was trying to play checkers while they were all playing chess.

Not only do we need to stop being the world's policeman--other nations need to sort out their own shit on their own--but we need to bring back all troops currently deployed in active military zones where we have no business being actively engaged in military action. Fuck the War on Terror--close operations in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Syria, etc and stop wasting lives and money fighting a never-ending war which cannot be won. Our overreaction to 11 Sept was only because we still thought we were hot shit on a stick and couldn't be touched.

_________________
No matter how thinly you slice it, it's still bologna.

What is the secret of Zen? Burn all your Zen books.

If you can't handle losing then you don't deserve to win.

Don Exnihilote wrote:
Hashi, if you thought you were wrong at times, evidently you were mistaken.


Mensa and Intertel
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kizza
Pointer and Quaffer

Male
Joined: 11 May 2017
Posts: 132

Thanks: 4
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts

Location: South Australia
602 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Diamondraught


PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
Let us not bring that issue into this thread--one topic per thread, if at all possible, please.

It was clear that Obama was out of his depth very early in his first term when Putin moved missile batteries closer to NATO countries and Obama did...nothing. He didn't even mention it. That told Putin--and others--everything they needed to know about Obama. Obama was trying to play checkers while they were all playing chess.

Not only do we need to stop being the world's policeman--other nations need to sort out their own shit on their own--but we need to bring back all troops currently deployed in active military zones where we have no business being actively engaged in military action. Fuck the War on Terror--close operations in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Syria, etc and stop wasting lives and money fighting a never-ending war which cannot be won. Our overreaction to 11 Sept was only because we still thought we were hot shit on a stick and couldn't be touched.


I think that is absolutely on point Hashi.
Interesting to see what Robert Fisk is reporting from Syria too.
Conspiracy theorists would ask if Stormy Deniels is still waiting for a hearing.

And Zarathustra, If I spat the word "hegemony" then I apologise for that. But I don't deny the fact that from time to time I look at the self righteousness of the US in its approach to selective world issues and wonder why they don't focus as much energy on their own backyard. We all hear damning stats about education and poverty in the US.

If this Robert Fisk is correct and it was not gas but oxygen deprivation brought on by a combination of inferno from bombs and a sandstorm, then the US attack on Syria looks ...........uninformed and over reactionary. Fisk who appears a solid source, needs to evidence his claim in a hurry.
_________________
She's mad, but she's magic.
There's no lie in her fire.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Wosbald
The Gap Into Spam

Male
Joined: 07 Feb 2015
Posts: 1130

Thanks: 13
Thanked 27 Times in 26 Posts


3776 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of Linden's Army


PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

+JMJ+

Syrian prelate says airstrikes based on 'lies' and 'Satan's language'

Quote:
Damascus skies erupt with surface to air missile fire as the U.S. launches an attack on Syria targeting different parts of the Syrian capital Damascus, early Saturday, April 14, 2018. (Credit: AP Photo/Hassan Ammar.)


ROME -- As spring blooms across most of the Northern Hemisphere, Syria's perpetual winter that's beginning its eighth year continues, the result of a bloody civil war that reignites every time it seems to be reaching an ending point.

Frustration with the deadly conflict is widely felt, including a Syrian prelate this week who told Crux that the recent U.S., UK and French airstrikes on the country in response to an alleged April 7 chemical weapons attack were justified by "lies" that reflect "Satan's language."

Those airstrikes, according to Archbishop Jean-Clement Jeanbart, the Melkite Archbishop of Aleppo, were "based on lies and disinformation," pushed forth by "people who have no morals, and they're working with the bad one, I mean the devil. Their lies are Satan's language and way of dealing with things."

"I am afraid that when you lie, lie, lie, and then speak about democracy, liberty, freedom, and the dignity of human beings, it doesn't matter, you don't have credibility," Jeanbart said, adding that wanting to help Syria would have meant actually finding out what happened.

[...]

Jeanbart told Crux over the phone on Monday that even though he couldn't say "it'd be impossible" that a chemical weapons attack might have happened, "it's incredible to think that the last action of the Syrian army in Ghouta would be killing people in this way."

Jeanbart is not naive when it comes to Syrian President Bashar al-Assad: "He could have done it two months ago, even a month ago, but now that the fighting was finishing, that the Syrian army was winning ... Even if it was possible, if the army had the means to do it, they wouldn't have done it."

He's also willing to acknowledge that Syria as a nation "has been naughty and has done things that are really bad. The situation is really hard, but lying constantly about it doesn't make it better."

He insists that Western nations have "misinformation" on what's going on in Syria, with news and even movies based "in lies." Syrians, the archbishop said, know that the alleged attack is a "headline, a pretext" for the United States, the UK and France to strike Syria.

"Why? I don't understand. We have seen several times fake news, lies going on in the media, with efforts to make Syria seem like a place where people have no heart and no morals, no respect to human beings," he said.

"This is not right," Jeanbart said, adding that historically, Syria has been a place where Muslims, Christians and others have lived together peacefully for centuries.

[...]

_________________



Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hashi Lebwohl
Director of Data Acquisition

Male
Joined: 06 Jul 2009
Posts: 10889

Thanks: 20
Thanked 98 Times in 94 Posts

Location: UMCPHQ
60749 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Caesure1 Insequent1 UMCPHQ


PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that right now it is difficult to get credible information out of Syria right now but for pity's sake this guy shouldn't blame it on The Devil--that's just ridiculous. If a chemical weapon attack took place then it was nothing more than humans doing what we do best--be assholes to each other.
_________________
No matter how thinly you slice it, it's still bologna.

What is the secret of Zen? Burn all your Zen books.

If you can't handle losing then you don't deserve to win.

Don Exnihilote wrote:
Hashi, if you thought you were wrong at times, evidently you were mistaken.


Mensa and Intertel
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kizza
Pointer and Quaffer

Male
Joined: 11 May 2017
Posts: 132

Thanks: 4
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts

Location: South Australia
602 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Diamondraught


PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was thinking that throwing this at the feet of the devil discredited the argument, however I respect that "the devil" is very likely as colloquial a term to Archbishop Jeanbart as "audible" is to Tom Brady.
There have been human atrocities occur in Syria, no doubt. Civil war - or any war for that matter will guarantee you that. The real concern for mine is that the US, French and British attack on Syria was founded on chemical weapons having been used, and that platform or reason for war needs to be evidenced in a massive hurry.
Otherwise I will be calling Trump the devil myself.
_________________
She's mad, but she's magic.
There's no lie in her fire.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Kevin's Watch Forum Index -> Hile Troy's Think-Tank All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3
Page 3 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by Earthpower © Kevin's Watch