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North Korea needs to be put in check
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Hashi Lebwohl
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to the IMF (that's the International Monetary Fund, not the Impossible Mission Force--cue the music) , as of the end of May 2018 the United States has a GDP of $20.4T (trillion) while Canada has a GDP of $1.8T. There wouldn't be a "trade war" with Canada; instead, it would be more like the United States shooing away a hissing cat with a rolled-up advertisement flyer. Besides, there isn't going to *be* any "trade war"--that was all just "tough talk" at the G7 summit. Much of Trump's negotiation strategy is "tough talk" in public before the real deals get made behind the scenes.

Meanwhile, the EU has a GDP of $19.7T so they are, collectively, about even with the United States. Their problem, collectively, is that they are upset that a pushover isn't in the White House any more. They could basically *tell* Obama what the deals were going to be and he would just go along with them.

Anyway....back to North Korea....

Denuclearization is going to happen, I just don't know the actual time frame.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I disagree, Hashi.

The issue isn't with the EU unfairly subsidising steel or aluminium production at all. It's with China massively overproducing and then dumping.

So why is Donny-boy acting against the EU? Wrong effing target and one that's going to get all tit-for-tat-ish, so everybody loses.

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
Meanwhile, the EU has a GDP of $19.7T so they are, collectively, about even with the United States. Their problem, collectively, is that they are upset that a pushover isn't in the White House any more. They could basically *tell* Obama what the deals were going to be and he would just go along with them.
Helluva statement - any evidence to back this up? I don't remember Obama being such a meek little puppet for Frau Merkel to manipulate as she pleased?
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gee.. how we'll going off topic....

Two guys meet in a hotel...
(Sorry for the line to a bad joke)

Lights flash, bells ring, the two guys leave...

Each has their own view of the outcomes.
Each say they are going to do this and that.
So lets see in a year if it happens...

I still wish that the SK and NK would have had a signed peace treaty.
Would have taken the thunder and light show down a peg or two.

and I am still not going to hold my breath.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree with Ur-Dead.

For all the subsequent posturing about how the world is safer, nothing actually meaningful or binding was agreed on. (And there was never going to be war with NK...KJU is crazy, not stupid.)

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed

Also the facility he "agreed" to dismantle is the self same facility he had to dismantle because it is no longer viable.

As to Trump and the "trade war" .. Trump was completely wrong. Still is. Everyone understands that tariffs and protectionism is wrong and not useful. It only encourages substandard products.

Dumping is against international law and thereby is illegal .. because it distorts the whole system. If you want to apply tariffs apply tariffs to those who are dumping .. and assign the tariffs to that specifically.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Avatar wrote:
Agree with Ur-Dead.

For all the subsequent posturing about how the world is safer, nothing actually meaningful or binding was agreed on. (And there was never going to be war with NK...KJU is crazy, not stupid.)

--A
The world is without a doubt safer when the leaders of two nuclear powers are shaking hands and talking rather than name calling and saber rattling. This is the first step in a long process, but it's a step in the right direction. We've come a long way from last year when people thought Trump was going to start WWIII
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hahahahahaha .. true

But we havent come all that far yet .. as you say its "a long process" .. so too early to call.

I was watching a doco about NK and KJU and NK refugees who had escaped NK.

NK has pledged denuclearisation many times before, in 1985, 1992, 1994, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2008, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2016 ... at the current time Trump does not have a pledge. This may be a good thing .. at least it spares KJU from having to break yet another "pledge" 🤷‍♀️

What we have yet to see is anything remotely mirroring the oversight of Iran has .... ie IAEA oversight, verification inspections etc.

NK has committed 1000s of human rights attrocitiies, publicly executing NK citizens for stupid things, like making unauthorised international phone calls, watching a hollywood movie, speaking against the sacred leader. In NK there are arbitrary arrests, torture, beatings, sexual abuses, and forced labour, enslaving NK citizens, including children in "political" prison camps, and so much more .

NK still holds "political prisoners" from Japan, SK, US, China, Thailand, Europe and the Middle East..

So yeah a looooong way to go ...

Trump has been singing NK and in particular KJUs praises over the past few days .. and tbh its utterly nauseating.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarathustra wrote:
This is the first step in a long process, but it's a step in the right direction. We've come a long way from last year when people thought Trump was going to start WWIII


I don't disagree with that at all. I just think that right now, he's giving himself a bit much credit for what might happen.

That said, I'd still rather he was right, but not really holding my breath yet.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Absolutely true that the whole thing is resting on a wish and a prayer at the moment - but at least it's a start and Trump must be given credit for that. He has succeeded where Obama and others have failed and who knows - a journey beginning with one step and all that.....

[nb. His suggestion that Russia be readmitted to the G7 has a similar rationale; you have to begin the dialogue, even against the backdrop of scenarios you don't like - rogue nation's activities are way more likely to be curbed by bringing them into the fold than by aggressive alienation, even if you have to make a few bs sycophantic praises in the process (while crossing your fingers behind your back).]
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok .. lets give him the benefit of succeeding if indeed he can .. but to date we have precious little to go on .. and a whole lot of talking this precious little ... up 🤷‍♀️
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skyweir wrote:
ok .. lets give him the benefit of succeeding if indeed he can .. but to date we have precious little to go on .. and a whole lot of talking this precious little ... up 🤷‍♀️
Those who witness historic shifts in global geopolitical relations and still see "precious little" most likely have their eyes closed or blinders on.


Sky, you said last year that you can't counter volatility with volatility. You were wrong. You clearly are a horrible judge of what you are witnessing.

Avatar wrote:

I just think that right now, he's giving himself a bit much credit for what might happen.
Perhaps. But given that the news coverage of Trump has been over 90% negative, it is understandable that he might feel the need to be his own PR man and to spin things in a more positive light than is warranted. Everyone does it. But not everyone is faced with such a hostile press that refuses to give him credit for a damn thing.

Trump's Presidency is an astonishing success. He has done more to lift black people out poverty in 1.5 years than Obama did in 8. The economic numbers are so good even the New York Times runs out of words to describe them. If this were a Democrat President, he'd be hailed as the greatest since Kennedy or Roosevelt.


People can keep taking cheap shots if they want, but history will show Trump to be one of the greatest Presidents we've ever had. This is just the beginning.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please elaborate on what historical global geopolitical shift you are referring to Z?

And how it is a historical global geopolitical shift?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh and Z its a well established fact you cant fight fire 🔥 with Fire 🔥

And from Petes very generous comments it would seem to support that concept 🤷‍♀️ I could be wrong on that score but I though he made a compelling point about Russia.

Perhaps its a normal consequence of human discourse ... that on occasion one questions the judgement of those who fail to confirm their individual bias or thinking 🤷‍♀️

😏
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skyweir wrote:
Oh and Z its a well established fact you cant fight fire 🔥 with Fire 🔥


Fire breaks? Razz

Laughing

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL

A fire break is NOT fire 🔥 😂😂😂😂😂

Fire breaks are tracts of land denuded of fuel .. grasses, trees, etc .. they are precisely what theyre described as ... a wide column or break designed to be a NO fire zones


Silly, funny Av 😏
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dunno about there, but here we create firebreaks by controlled burning.

Frequently ahead of an existing fire.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hysterical .. yup thats one way to denude the break

But heres a challenge .. a test if you will of the veracity of the saying ... light a fire and see how well you can extinguish it with fire .. and report your findings back to the group Wink Laughing

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

More fire would also increase the speed at which the fuel is consumed, reducing the duration of the original fire. Very Happy Or you could drop 20 litres of petrol on it...explosions have been known to extinguish the fire that caused them. Very Happy Or as I said, burn around the existing fire to deprive it of fuel. Very Happy

But we're getting off topic. Very Happy

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah .. Ill pay your dedication to that old phraseology or adage .. Wink

But tis just an adage .. Laughing

Your argument equivalence is fighting Nukes with a similar missiles WITHOUT a nuclear warhead. Or confronting live fire with blanks ..

Cos you are are not FIGHTING fire with fire .. your fighting fire with fire breaks, your using previously denuded landscape whether burned or graded.. not fire.

It is the literal phrase that is used to justify violence to counter a threat. Its a cowboy term .. a yeee harrr .. lets blow some shit up expression .. that does not require, nor encourage considered judgement.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, I know that. And I'm not really disagreeing with you (although I think your distinction between fire and fire break (if a fire is used to create one) is a bit specious. Wink

Just exploring the term. Very Happy

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