Kevin's Watch Forum Index
 HomeHome   MemberlistMemberlist   RegisterRegister   SearchSearch   ProfileProfile   FAQFAQ   StatisticsStatistics  SudokuSudoku   Phoogle MapPhoogle Map 
 AlbumAlbum StoresStores   StoresItems Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

What will it take to change attitudes towards abortion?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 10, 11, 12 ... 14, 15, 16  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Kevin's Watch Forum Index -> Hile Troy's Think-Tank
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Skyweir
Lord of Light


Joined: 16 Mar 2002
Posts: 13066

Thanks: 16
Thanked 39 Times in 39 Posts

Location: Australia
17959 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Lord's Staff1 Oath of Peace1 Furls Fire


PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahhh so no disincentive to the single parent paradigm .. is there evidence to suggest that it is this demographic avails itself of abortions?

If so you may have addressed a major issue.

Though it would be an incentive to collect more welfare money from the government the more actual children you have, wouldnt it?
_________________
health and healing

'Smoke me a kipper .. I'll be back for breakfast!'
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Cail
Grin Reaper

MaleRanyhyn
Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Posts: 38152

Thanks: 16
Thanked 111 Times in 102 Posts

Location: Hell of the Upside Down Sinners
19684 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH1 Haruchai1 2010 Watchies


PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skyweir wrote:
Ahhh so no disincentive to the single parent paradigm .. is there evidence to suggest that it is this demographic avails itself of abortions?

If so you may have addressed a major issue.
I have no idea what you're asking.

Skyweir wrote:
Though it would be an incentive to collect more welfare money from the government the more actual children you have, wouldnt it?
That's exactly what happens.
_________________
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
Skyweir
Lord of Light


Joined: 16 Mar 2002
Posts: 13066

Thanks: 16
Thanked 39 Times in 39 Posts

Location: Australia
17959 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Lord's Staff1 Oath of Peace1 Furls Fire


PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well this is the abortion thread .. so we looked at the changes you would put in place.

We talked about the issue of single parenting .. wasnt that your point about social welfare .. that it enables the pregnancy cycle in women on welfare.

So I was wondering whether or not this demographic avails itself of abortions.. cos abortion topic right. But I gather from your other comment that its not about abortions with this sector its about the production of welfare children to access increased welfare payments, as you said happens now.
_________________
health and healing

'Smoke me a kipper .. I'll be back for breakfast!'
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
TheFallen
Master of Innominate Surquedry

Male
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 1465

Thanks: 23
Thanked 21 Times in 19 Posts

Location: Guildford, UK
16895 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH


PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Cail's point was about helping to create a situation where the highest number of pregnancies were truly wanted. Unwanted - or improperly wanted - pregnancies are liable to increase the chances of child neglect. He sees (I believe) State hand-outs as being potentially causative of "improperly wanted" pregnancies.

There is a subset of people here in the UK too who for whatever reason have almost as many children as possible in order to maximise on State benefits (income, housing etc etc). In such cases, these repeated pregnancies happen for financial gain, so the risk of neglect from the parent(s) is sharply increased.

Howver, if I've got that wrong, I'm sure he'll let me know.
_________________
Newsflash... the word "irony" doesn't mean "a bit like iron"

Some people say I'm egocentric... but hey, enough about them
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
Cail
Grin Reaper

MaleRanyhyn
Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Posts: 38152

Thanks: 16
Thanked 111 Times in 102 Posts

Location: Hell of the Upside Down Sinners
19684 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH1 Haruchai1 2010 Watchies


PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheFallen wrote:
I think Cail's point was about helping to create a situation where the highest number of pregnancies were truly wanted. Unwanted - or improperly wanted - pregnancies are liable to increase the chances of child neglect. He sees (I believe) State hand-outs as being potentially causative of "improperly wanted" pregnancies.

There is a subset of people here in the UK too who for whatever reason have almost as many children as possible in order to maximise on State benefits (income, housing etc etc). In such cases, these repeated pregnancies happen for financial gain, so the risk of neglect from the parent(s) is sharply increased.

Howver, if I've got that wrong, I'm sure he'll let me know.
Nope, you're correct. Fatherless children are incentivized. Anything incentivized will, by definition, increase.
_________________
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
Skyweir
Lord of Light


Joined: 16 Mar 2002
Posts: 13066

Thanks: 16
Thanked 39 Times in 39 Posts

Location: Australia
17959 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Lord's Staff1 Oath of Peace1 Furls Fire


PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More social problems 🙄
_________________
health and healing

'Smoke me a kipper .. I'll be back for breakfast!'
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Kizza
Pointer and Quaffer

Male
Joined: 11 May 2017
Posts: 407

Thanks: 7
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts

Location: Australia
1729 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Diamondraught


PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Extra kids for single parents on social welfare equals more welfare in Australia too.
There are women as single parents who have and raise multiple kids to multiple fathers and collect welfare for each of them.
In the poorer suburbs in all Australian cities the story of the 25 year old mother with the 5 kids receiving $1100 or $1300 per week is all too common.
(Mind you I don't know how anyone could afford to or would want to try to afford live with 5 kids on that, and so the welfare is another circular problem of its own.)
_________________
She's mad, but she's magic.
There's no lie in her fire.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Skyweir
Lord of Light


Joined: 16 Mar 2002
Posts: 13066

Thanks: 16
Thanked 39 Times in 39 Posts

Location: Australia
17959 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Lord's Staff1 Oath of Peace1 Furls Fire


PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes true Kizza .. and I wonder how many of those end up in the Foster Carer System too 😬
_________________
health and healing

'Smoke me a kipper .. I'll be back for breakfast!'
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Wosbald
A Brainwashed Religious Flunkie

Male
Joined: 07 Feb 2015
Posts: 1480

Thanks: 15
Thanked 29 Times in 28 Posts


4994 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of Linden's Army


PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

+JMJ+

Argentina 'slum priest' blames abortion push on IMF

Quote:

Father Jose Maria Di Paola, a "slum priest" from Buenos Aires, Argentina, addressing the country's Chamber of Deputies, currently debating legalizing abortion. (Credit: Slum priests of Buenos Aires.)


ROME -- When Pope Francis talks about "ideological colonization," meaning aid to developing countries that comes with a price tag, some scratch their heads wondering what he means. During his home country's debate over abortion on Thursday, a priest from the slums of his former archdiocese put one name on it: The International Monetary Fund.

"Abortion is synonymous with the IMF, whether the conservative world likes it or not, [because] it doesn't mind the poor having fewer children or even none at all, and [whether] pseudo-progressives [like it or not], they're raising the flags of a presumed freedom of women to dispose of their bodies, but know that this genocide is inspired and promoted by the IMF," said Father Jose Maria "Pepe" Di Paola.

Di Paola is a point of reference among the "villero priests," meaning, priests who live and serve in one of Argentina's infamous slums, in his case, in Buenos Aires.

[...]

"It's not an accident that, this year, abortion is becoming an issue in politics, in order to cozy up to that body which promotes it around the world: the IMF," Di Paola said, in a clear reference to the fact that some two weeks ago the Macri government began negotiating with the IMF.

Macri announced that he'd allow the abortion debate to take place just a week before Christine Lagarde, managing director of the IMF, was in Argentina. It was the first visit an IMF executive has made to the country in 15 years, and this is also the first time in 12 that a bill to liberalize abortion is being debated in the legislature.

[...]

In a heavily politicized speech, aimed perhaps at proving that defense of unborn life is not a religious matter but a human right, Di Paola also spoke of the contradiction of the members of the Chamber of Deputies who "are concerned and speaking out against the IMF, and, at the same time, are inclined to approve one of its biggest demands, abortion, to control who's born and who's not in the countries that have to comply to its norms."

[...]

Di Paola also noted that Robert McNamara, former Secretary of Defense of the United States, during his time as president of the World Bank suggested increasing loans to developing countries but imposing strong conditions, and one of them was liberalizing abortion.

McNamara was a firm promoter of population control in third world countries, allegedly because "rapid population growth slows down their potential development."

In 1968 McNamara became the first president of the World Bank to visit Latin America, including Argentina, where he addressed the Inter-American Press Association. During his speech, he said that loans to the region would depend on a "realistic appraisal of the effect of population growth in those countries where that growth is clearly holding back progress, and for an earnest effort to cope with this most difficult and complex problem of our times."

[...]

Di Paola also dropped a big name in Argentina's politics, Eva Duarte de Peron, saying that she, like Mother Teresa, "defended life even in the hardest of circumstances."

Eva was the second wife of Juan Domingo Peron, who founded the Partido Justicialista. Today, many Argentinians who don't know her history on the issue ironically use her image to promote the abortion bill, draped in the flags of the "Evita Youth."

Back in the mid-1970s, when the Latin American left largely saw population control as a form of ideological manipulation, Peron tried to implement a plan to increase the country's birth rates, quite literally mocking McNamara in an interview: "If he believes this is a problem for Argentina with 23 million inhabitants, how much more will it be for the U.S. [that has] 200 million? And why don't they limit their birthrate?"

Towards the end of his seven-minute remarks, Di Paola spoke of the Latin American martyr Archbishop Oscar Romero of El Salvador, who exhorted the military not to repress its people: "If we feel the repression, because it kills our youth and people who are already grown, it's the same to take a life in the womb of a woman. That child is a future adult, who, with abortion, is murdered."

The IMF and its impositions, the priest said, have contributed to ending the life of Romero and of many children in Latin America.

[...]

_________________



Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Skyweir
Lord of Light


Joined: 16 Mar 2002
Posts: 13066

Thanks: 16
Thanked 39 Times in 39 Posts

Location: Australia
17959 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Lord's Staff1 Oath of Peace1 Furls Fire


PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well dear Wos .. thank you as always for sharing the insight of your institution .. I find it a difficult assertion to swallow that the IMF is behind the pro choice campaign. I know he asserts that abortion is synonymous wit the IMF but then goes on to discuss the issue that it is a part of their agenda.

Surely capitalism benefits from the existence of the poor and under developed nations. Its evil .. but it is true. From a purely trade perspective .. millions of tonnes of food exports are dumped in the oceans to raise the cost of produce .. despite it having the potential to feed the hungry in nations where population growth is high.


And this is a concerning statement to make and not fully elaborate
Quote:
they're raising the flags of a presumed freedom of women to dispose of their bodies
.. what on earth does he mean with this statement? That women should not have a say in how their bodies are used?

I understand that there are policies to limit excessive population growth, and I understand the principles behind this. I dont entirely agree that population controls .. for example like China back in the day of the one child policy was a particularly healthy policy .. because there are few advantages to being desperately poor .. and one argument is that at least joy can be found in family.

And I cannot deny that fact .. I have great joy in my family .. but if you cannot provide for the lives you bring into the world it seems you may be doing them a disservice by having multiple children. Would I condone mass abortions .. no .. would I see education playing a role here .. yes I would.

I dont think there are easy answers to over population and dire poverty .. but even in western developed societies .. humans would be a lot better served by responsible reproducing and using birth control imho.
_________________
health and healing

'Smoke me a kipper .. I'll be back for breakfast!'
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Cail
Grin Reaper

MaleRanyhyn
Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Posts: 38152

Thanks: 16
Thanked 111 Times in 102 Posts

Location: Hell of the Upside Down Sinners
19684 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH1 Haruchai1 2010 Watchies


PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skyweir wrote:
And this is a concerning statement to make and not fully elaborate
Quote:
they're raising the flags of a presumed freedom of women to dispose of their bodies
.. what on earth does he mean with this statement? That women should not have a say in how their bodies are used?
Sure they do. They don't have the right to kill their baby because they failed to have a say in how they used their bodies.

You don't get to kill people because you've made bad choices.
_________________
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
Skyweir
Lord of Light


Joined: 16 Mar 2002
Posts: 13066

Thanks: 16
Thanked 39 Times in 39 Posts

Location: Australia
17959 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Lord's Staff1 Oath of Peace1 Furls Fire


PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah ok I get that .. and agree for the most part. Abortion isnt an ethical time machine .. to remedy mistakes of the past.

But theres a lot more there that does not sit comfortably with me, smackerings of conspiracy theory, outrageous assertions .. yeah this reveal does not resonate with me at all.
_________________
health and healing

'Smoke me a kipper .. I'll be back for breakfast!'
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Wosbald
A Brainwashed Religious Flunkie

Male
Joined: 07 Feb 2015
Posts: 1480

Thanks: 15
Thanked 29 Times in 28 Posts


4994 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of Linden's Army


PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

+JMJ+

Money, power and 'Humanae Vitae': the forgotten story [In-Depth]

Quote:

Atlas at Rockefeller Center. (Credit: 'Another Believer' CC 4.0 via CNA.)


WASHINGTON, D.C. -- The controversy over Humanae Vitae, the papal encyclical that reaffirmed Catholic teaching on contraception 50 years ago, cannot be understood apart from the context of a well-funded advocacy network for population control after the Second World War.

The network includes big names in grantmaking like the Ford Foundation and John D. Rockefeller III. One scholar has been writing about this network for decades.

"The campaign to persuade Catholics, leaders and the lay public, that traditional views of sexuality, abortion, and marriage were antiquated was extensive and conducted on many fronts," Arizona State University history professor Donald Critchlow told CNA.

"Groups such as Catholics for Choice were encouraged through philanthropic grants, but the more general campaign was conducted around sexual education."

Critchlow is the author of the 1999 Oxford University Press book Intended Consequences: Birth Control, Abortion, and the Federal Government in Modern America.

Together with his talk at the Catholic University of America's April 2018 conference "The Legacy of Dissent from Humanae Vitae," his work helps place Humanae Vitae in the political and policy context of its time.

"In the immediate aftermath of the Second World War, leaders in philanthropic foundations, politics, and business joined together to undertake a campaign to control the rates of population growth. They concluded that future wars, famine, and other social ills could be prevented through a reduction in the rate of population growth," Critchlow told CNA. "This neo-Malthusian agenda was joined by activists seeking reproductive rights for women and environmentalists seeking environmental justice."

This took part in an environment of sexual revolution, even before the invention of the birth control pill.

"American sexual mores were already changing in the 1960s," Critchlow continued. "Changes in sexual mores and sexual behavior cannot be attributed to one single cause. There should be little doubt, however, that elite opinion encouraged changes in sexual mores and behavior in the name of 'progress,' reproductive justice, and population control."

The history professor classified the postwar era as "one of the most massive efforts of social engineering in human history."

"Many actors were found in this neo-Malthusian campaign, but it is important to emphasize that it was not a conspiracy as such," he said. "Those involved in the population control movement and calls for publicly funded contraception, abortion, sterilization and sex education shared a general perspective on the need to control population growth and to educate the public. They saw themselves as the enlightened bringing progress to the masses, who were backward in their social, political, and religious views."

When Humanae Vitae, issued by Pope Paul VI on July 25, 1968, reaffirmed Catholic teaching that contraception was immoral, these advocates responded strongly.

"Humanae Vitae was attacked openly and publicly," Critchlow said.

[...]

_________________



Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Avatar
Immanentizing The Eschaton


Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 55555

Thanks: 72
Thanked 156 Times in 153 Posts

Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
22580 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Pantheon Veteran


PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uh, they are antiquated. Very Happy

--A
_________________
Don't believe everything you think.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Phoogle Map
Skyweir
Lord of Light


Joined: 16 Mar 2002
Posts: 13066

Thanks: 16
Thanked 39 Times in 39 Posts

Location: Australia
17959 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Lord's Staff1 Oath of Peace1 Furls Fire


PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wos that is an unfinished story .. so the movement was not conspiratorial .. it was aimed at publicly funded contraception, sexual education etc .. Which is ultimately reasonable imho.

The Catholic view in 1968 by Pope Paul VI is indeed antiquated .. Id be interested in your current Popes views in the 21C.

I thought on reading this that the Catholic church had modified its views on contraception as it seems to have on the sacred status of sperm.

I slightly jest .. but yeah .. they were against masturbation.
_________________
health and healing

'Smoke me a kipper .. I'll be back for breakfast!'
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
TheFallen
Master of Innominate Surquedry

Male
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 1465

Thanks: 23
Thanked 21 Times in 19 Posts

Location: Guildford, UK
16895 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH


PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FWIW, I believe that the Catholic Church's very long-standing stance against contraception itself absolutely stemmed from attempted social engineering.

The equation was simple...

(Exhort the faithful to be fruitful and multiply as much as possible) + (Instruct the faithful that any attempt to avoid conception was intrinsically evil and would get you damned) = (Lots more of the faithful)

Although I'm sure that its current views no longer stem from a desire to swell its ranks - well, I bloody well hope not - antiquated ain't anywhere near a strong enough word to describe the Catholic Church's continuing dogma on contraception. I'd personally go for "medieval". Is it really still the case? Seriously?
_________________
Newsflash... the word "irony" doesn't mean "a bit like iron"

Some people say I'm egocentric... but hey, enough about them
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
Skyweir
Lord of Light


Joined: 16 Mar 2002
Posts: 13066

Thanks: 16
Thanked 39 Times in 39 Posts

Location: Australia
17959 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Lord's Staff1 Oath of Peace1 Furls Fire


PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mmm.. medieval is a good word for this stance. But the article isnt complete and I still would love to hear what the current Pope thinks .. as he seems a lot more liberal.
_________________
health and healing

'Smoke me a kipper .. I'll be back for breakfast!'
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
TheFallen
Master of Innominate Surquedry

Male
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 1465

Thanks: 23
Thanked 21 Times in 19 Posts

Location: Guildford, UK
16895 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH


PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skyweir wrote:
I still would love to hear what the current Pope thinks .. as he seems a lot more liberal.
Haven't you got that wrong, Sky?

The Pope as I understand it is God's spokesperson - which is exactly why there's the concept of Papal infallibility.

So, what you actually want to have communicated to you is God's current thinking, Sky (via the Pope of course) - to see if The Former has become a bit more liberal.
_________________
Newsflash... the word "irony" doesn't mean "a bit like iron"

Some people say I'm egocentric... but hey, enough about them
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
Skyweir
Lord of Light


Joined: 16 Mar 2002
Posts: 13066

Thanks: 16
Thanked 39 Times in 39 Posts

Location: Australia
17959 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Lord's Staff1 Oath of Peace1 Furls Fire


PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well lol .. perhaps the Popes god has become more liberal Wink
_________________
health and healing

'Smoke me a kipper .. I'll be back for breakfast!'
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Wosbald
A Brainwashed Religious Flunkie

Male
Joined: 07 Feb 2015
Posts: 1480

Thanks: 15
Thanked 29 Times in 28 Posts


4994 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of Linden's Army


PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

+JMJ+

Skyweir wrote:
mmm.. medieval is a good word for this stance. But the article isnt complete and I still would love to hear what the current Pope thinks .. as he seems a lot more liberal.


The Catechism hasn't been changed. That, right there, is the litmus test.

Quote:
2370 Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality. These methods respect the bodies of the spouses, encourage tenderness between them, and favor the education of an authentic freedom. In contrast, "every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible" is intrinsically evil:

Quote:
Thus the innate language that expresses the total reciprocal self-giving of husband and wife is overlaid, through contraception, by an objectively contradictory language, namely, that of not giving oneself totally to the other. This leads not only to a positive refusal to be open to life but also to a falsification of the inner truth of conjugal love, which is called upon to give itself in personal totality. . . . The difference, both anthropological and moral, between contraception and recourse to the rhythm of the cycle . . . involves in the final analysis two irreconcilable concepts of the human person and of human sexuality.


Anecdotally and somewhat irrelevantly, Francis praised Paul VI a couple of years ago in the Philippines:

Quote:
[...]

That night in Manila, Francis also departed from his prepared text to offer a strong defense of Pope Paul VI and his controversial 1968 encyclical Humanae Vitae that upheld the contraception ban.

"He had the strength to defend openness to life at a time when many people were worried about population growth," Francis said.

[...]


Plus, Paul VI (along with Oscar Romero) is going to be made a saint come Oct 14th. So, there's that.
_________________



Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Kevin's Watch Forum Index -> Hile Troy's Think-Tank All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 10, 11, 12 ... 14, 15, 16  Next
Page 11 of 16

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by Earthpower © Kevin's Watch