Kevin's Watch Forum Index
 HomeHome   MemberlistMemberlist   RegisterRegister   SearchSearch   ProfileProfile   FAQFAQ   StatisticsStatistics  SudokuSudoku   Phoogle MapPhoogle Map 
 AlbumAlbum StoresStores   StoresItems Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Arrest the Pope
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Kevin's Watch Forum Index -> Hile Troy's Think-Tank
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
TheFallen
Master of Innominate Surquedry

Male
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 1607

Thanks: 23
Thanked 24 Times in 22 Posts

Location: Guildford, UK
17982 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH


PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kizza wrote:
Kumbaya my lord, kumbaya. Bless you the Fallen.

The Pope has around 1.2 billion catholics to lead. You want to have his head? Cool.

I want the head of the NRA for all of the school shootings in America this year.

Seems a logical and fair swap, albeit with a thin metal taste about it. Or is that irony?
Tsk tsk Kizza... in just one four line post, you've managed both a straw man and a false equivalency. That's impressive, my man Big Grin

I thought I'd made this brutally clear. I do not want the Pope's head, because it'd serve precisely no purpose. Why?
The Who wrote:
Here comes the new boss... same as the old boss...

Nope, what I want is for the Pope to bloody do something.

There is a definite element of institutional responsibility here - but I'd not necessarily go as far as specific accountability (unless the current Pope has knowingly and deliberately helped conceal acts of abuse, as very firmly alleged in the Vigano letter).

Leaving that potential and specific complicity to one side, who else within the Catholic Church do you think has the authority to at least mandate full disclosure? If not the current incumbent and undisputed supreme leader of the institution in question, then who?

Sadly IMV the current Pope is acting like the CEO of Enron just pre-crash - and I found his recent public woolly hand-wringing...
The pope very recently wrote:
God needs Christians to speak out about injustice wherever it happens, especially when hidden by silence
...to be staggeringly distasteful and jaw-droppingly hypocritical against the backdrop of ongoing institutional concealment of abuse, especially given that he presides over said institution and yet seems completely unwilling to mandate any meaningful steps or actions himself.

Sure, most of the actual abuses occurred long before the current pontiff's inauguration - but so what? The concealment of such is still occurring and very specifically on his watch. That makes it undeniably down to him as current titular head to mandate full co-operation with and full disclosure to relevant investigating 3rd party authorities.

I ask again, why would the Pope not want the Augean stables properly sluiced out? Why would he not want to help achieve some level of closure for the many victims of an institution he now presides over? Does he not understand that a frank admission of culpability and sincere concerted efforts to help bring perpetrators to justice would be of definite benefit to those victims? They're about the only things that would be.

Surely the head of any institution that had perpetrated such levels of abuse over so many years has at least an ethical (let alone legal) duty to do such... and the fact that we're talking about a spiritual leader of millions here, one of whose core remits is to pronounce as God's voice on earth on what's morally correct in all aspects of life and society, means that the Pope's ethical (let alone legal) responsibility to act is multiplied infinitely.

And the repercussions if the Pope continues the long tradition of doing nothing? It's not a question of jailtime for His Holiness at all - but the institution he presides over is totally justifiably going to be seen as ever more hypocritical, ever more damaged and ever more irrelevant.
_________________
Newsflash... the word "irony" doesn't mean "a bit like iron"

Some people say I'm egocentric... but hey, enough about them
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
Cail
Grin Reaper

MaleRanyhyn
Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Posts: 38571

Thanks: 17
Thanked 116 Times in 107 Posts

Location: Hell of the Upside Down Sinners
20968 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH1 Haruchai1 2010 Watchies


PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The pope hid child rapists, and continues to stonewall the investigation into child rapists who are in his employ. My anger is not just directed at him, but at every catholic I see (Wos) who doesn't speak out against the epidemic of child rape in the church. How many times have we heard that "silence = consent"? Catholics who don't speak out against this might as well be raping kids themselves.

The NRA has made it crystal clear that it does not represent people who use their guns illegally. Not only a bad example, but in really poor taste Kizza.
_________________
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
Kizza
Pointer and Quaffer

Male
Joined: 11 May 2017
Posts: 584

Thanks: 9
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts

Location: Australia
2396 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Diamondraught


PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My posts may have been dripping with sarcasm, straw men, cat fish et al.
But the suggestion the pope is guilty needs a little more evidence before I stop being sarcastic. Jump up and down about your NRA all you like, but the connections are equally flimsy in my view and hence why I threw them both up.
As a by note, where the pope has discovered these practices I have seen his views condemning those disgraces in writing. In fact I shared here what he had to say Re the Australian disgraces further up in this stream. So carry on, and I will continue to take the piss.
_________________
She's mad, but she's magic.
There's no lie in her fire.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TheFallen
Master of Innominate Surquedry

Male
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 1607

Thanks: 23
Thanked 24 Times in 22 Posts

Location: Guildford, UK
17982 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH


PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So... you honestly believe that the undisputed supreme head of an organisation - any organisation - has no responsibility, apart from wringing his hands and saying "When bad things happen, that's bad"???

Seriously?

For the 3rd time, I am not saying the Pope is personally guilty (unless and until the Vigano allegations are proved). I'm saying that he has without any scintilla of doubt a responsibility to do and/or say more - and be a whole lot more categorical and specific with it - than he currently is or ever has.
_________________
Newsflash... the word "irony" doesn't mean "a bit like iron"

Some people say I'm egocentric... but hey, enough about them
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
Kizza
Pointer and Quaffer

Male
Joined: 11 May 2017
Posts: 584

Thanks: 9
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts

Location: Australia
2396 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Diamondraught


PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fallen,
That is not what I have said at all.
You want to bust the minister for sport because some prick coaching junior school football betrayed the trust of the community?
Let the pope or the exampled minister evidence the way they are fixing things. Go and read the media release where the pope agrees to meet with the letter of the law in not being complicit with covering illegal behaviour up.
Here is a nod to the fact that a religion is not run like a commercial operation.
I will bow and head off into the weekend.
_________________
She's mad, but she's magic.
There's no lie in her fire.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kizza
Pointer and Quaffer

Male
Joined: 11 May 2017
Posts: 584

Thanks: 9
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts

Location: Australia
2396 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Diamondraught


PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cail wrote:
The pope hid child rapists, and continues to stonewall the investigation into child rapists who are in his employ.

How many parts removed are these accusations of what is essentially complicity?
Did the pope do it directly?
Is there evidence?
_________________
She's mad, but she's magic.
There's no lie in her fire.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Cail
Grin Reaper

MaleRanyhyn
Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Posts: 38571

Thanks: 17
Thanked 116 Times in 107 Posts

Location: Hell of the Upside Down Sinners
20968 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH1 Haruchai1 2010 Watchies


PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kizza wrote:
Cail wrote:
The pope hid child rapists, and continues to stonewall the investigation into child rapists who are in his employ.

How many parts removed are these accusations of what is essentially complicity?
Did the pope do it directly?
Is there evidence?
Yes.
_________________
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
TheFallen
Master of Innominate Surquedry

Male
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 1607

Thanks: 23
Thanked 24 Times in 22 Posts

Location: Guildford, UK
17982 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH


PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kizza wrote:
TheFallen wrote:
So... you honestly believe that the undisputed supreme head of an organisation - any organisation - has no responsibility, apart from wringing his hands and saying "When bad things happen, that's bad"???

Seriously?

For the 3rd time, I am not saying the Pope is personally guilty (unless and until the Vigano allegations are proved). I'm saying that he has without any scintilla of doubt a responsibility to do and/or say more - and be a whole lot more categorical and specific with it - than he currently is or ever has.
Fallen,
That is not what I have said at all.
You want to bust the minister for sport because some prick coaching junior school football betrayed the trust of the community?
Let the pope or the exampled minister evidence the way they are fixing things. Go and read the media release where the pope agrees to meet with the letter of the law in not being complicit with covering illegal behaviour up.

...and here's the Pope's words from that media release which you shared up-thread, Kizza.
The Pope on the Australian Catholic Church abuse crisis wrote:
It is essential that we, as a Church, be able to acknowledge and condemn, with sorrow and shame, the atrocities perpetrated by consecrated persons, clerics, and all those entrusted with the mission of watching over and caring for those most vulnerable. Let us beg forgiveness for our own sins and the sins of others.

What does that actually say? What effectiveness or resolution does it actually provide?

That "be able" is a real weasel word expression. The Catholic Church has always been able to acknowledge and condemn... it's always had that capability within its remit. It's just blatantly, repeatedly and deliberately chosen NOT to exercise it - instead favouring protection and concealment.

Look at those words FFS - they're meaningless puff (and a cynic would say they're a smokescreen). Forget "being able to acknowledge and condemn"... how about you actually acknowledge and condemn?

In fact, how about the Pope goes further and says something like this?:-

"The atrocities perpetrated by consecrated persons, clerics, and all those entrusted with the mission of watching over and caring for those most vulnerable are truly sorrowful and shameful.

The Catholic Church fully acknowledges and condemns these - and furthermore hereby undertakes to offer every assistance and full disclosure to any relevant secular investigative authorities in order to ensure that:-

i) all perpetrators of such abuses within the institution of the Church are summarily brought to justice for their crimes.

ii) all investigations into allegations of abuse perpetrated by individuals within the institution of the Church are aided to the fullest extent of the Church's ability."


No? Didn't think so...

And while I am about it, there's this:-

News.com.au wrote:
Pope OKs probe into US bishop as he meets with US delegation.

Pope Francis has ordered an investigation of a high-ranking US bishop in connection with sexual harassment charges and accepted his resignation.

Pope Francis on Thursday accepted the resignation of a West Virginia bishop, Michael Bransfield, and at the same time authorised a fellow bishop to investigate allegations that Bishop Bransfield sexually harassed adults, Vatican officials said...

...Francis appointed Baltimore Bishop William Lori to take over Bransfield's Wheeling-Charleston diocese temporarily. Lori said in a statement that Francis had also instructed him to "conduct an investigation into allegations of sexual harassment of adults against Bishop Bransfield."

Bishop Lori set up a hotline for potential victims to call, and vowed to conduct a thorough investigation into what he said were "troubling" claims against Bransfield.

link

Hang on... why isn't investigation of these latest allegations being passed over to the police? Why is the Church content with conducting its own investigation? Self-policing by the Catholic Church, especially with its track record of quiet collusion and cover-ups... foxes being posted to guard the hen-house springs to mind. How can this possibly be presented as anything remotely resembling acceptable?
_________________
Newsflash... the word "irony" doesn't mean "a bit like iron"

Some people say I'm egocentric... but hey, enough about them
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
Ur Dead
The Gap Into Spam

Male
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 1915

Thanks: 5
Thanked 14 Times in 13 Posts


3166 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Translation1 Diamondraught1 Lord's Staff


PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a solution to this problem.
Neither would be approved by the church.

Allow priests to marry. Hey Peter was married.
But it put a financial strain on resources.
Then again you start a chain of priests line that subverts the idea of
individuals moving to a calling.

Next is all priests are castrated from the time they take their orders.
But priests do leave and you can't attach what has been removed.

I favor removal... it follows the bible fairly closely.
_________________
What's this silver looking ring doing on my finger?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
Kizza
Pointer and Quaffer

Male
Joined: 11 May 2017
Posts: 584

Thanks: 9
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts

Location: Australia
2396 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Diamondraught


PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cail wrote:
Kizza wrote:
Cail wrote:
The pope hid child rapists, and continues to stonewall the investigation into child rapists who are in his employ.

How many parts removed are these accusations of what is essentially complicity?
Did the pope do it directly?
Is there evidence?
Yes.

This is an allegation of complicity. If it is true, the pope must go now.
_________________
She's mad, but she's magic.
There's no lie in her fire.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kizza
Pointer and Quaffer

Male
Joined: 11 May 2017
Posts: 584

Thanks: 9
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts

Location: Australia
2396 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Diamondraught


PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ur Dead wrote:
There is a solution to this problem.
Neither would be approved by the church.

Allow priests to marry. Hey Peter was married.
But it put a financial strain on resources.
Then again you start a chain of priests line that subverts the idea of
individuals moving to a calling.

Next is all priests are castrated from the time they take their orders.
But priests do leave and you can't attach what has been removed.

I favor removal... it follows the bible fairly closely.


I agree with a lot of this. Castration is possibly a bit much.
_________________
She's mad, but she's magic.
There's no lie in her fire.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kizza
Pointer and Quaffer

Male
Joined: 11 May 2017
Posts: 584

Thanks: 9
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts

Location: Australia
2396 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Diamondraught


PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fallen, the Australian law recently passed prevents the church constituents from withholding evidence they learnt through confession or associated by-the-tabernacle conversations.
This was acknowledged by the pope as a law the church would abide by.
That said, if the pope is complicit in his protection of paedophiles, then it is all a smokescreen of lies by the pope anyway.
_________________
She's mad, but she's magic.
There's no lie in her fire.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TheFallen
Master of Innominate Surquedry

Male
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 1607

Thanks: 23
Thanked 24 Times in 22 Posts

Location: Guildford, UK
17982 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH


PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kizza, I'm aware of that Australian law having been passed.

What I am absolutely not aware of is that the Pope has agreed that the sanctity of the seal of the confessional should be broken in any circumstances?

I'd love to see a link on that, because I'd be truly staggered..
_________________
Newsflash... the word "irony" doesn't mean "a bit like iron"

Some people say I'm egocentric... but hey, enough about them
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
Cail
Grin Reaper

MaleRanyhyn
Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Posts: 38571

Thanks: 17
Thanked 116 Times in 107 Posts

Location: Hell of the Upside Down Sinners
20968 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH1 Haruchai1 2010 Watchies


PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheFallen wrote:
Kizza, I'm aware of that Australian law having been passed.

What I am absolutely not aware of is that the Pope has agreed that the sanctity of the seal of the confessional should be broken in any circumstances?

I'd love to see a link on that, because I'd be truly staggered..
All I know about it is the propaganda that Wos has posted....I don't recall his rapeyness saying anything other than negative about it.
_________________
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
Ur Dead
The Gap Into Spam

Male
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 1915

Thanks: 5
Thanked 14 Times in 13 Posts


3166 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Translation1 Diamondraught1 Lord's Staff


PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Pope may not divulge anything told in confession. That is doctrine. They move priest out of areas where the priest has does wrong. The church is all
for forgiveness.

It the responsibility of the country to go after the pedo's.
And prosecute the perp. to the fullest.
They won't get it from the church.

So how many have been arrested by the country in question
and placed on trial. The law has been broken why hasn't it been dealt with?

You're treating this as solely an internal affair instead of a country's
violation of it's law.
_________________
What's this silver looking ring doing on my finger?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
TheFallen
Master of Innominate Surquedry

Male
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 1607

Thanks: 23
Thanked 24 Times in 22 Posts

Location: Guildford, UK
17982 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH


PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope, Ur Dead - the institution of the Catholic Church is also clearly complicit in criminality.

I at least am treating its lack of co-operation as ongoing, knowing, complicit and deliberate concealment and protection of the perpetrators of criminal offences. Frankly, it would be more honest of it and its officers if they pled the 5th.

Here in the UK that could well be deemed as perverting the course of justice, or being an accessory after the fact.

I'm sure that the US must have similar legislation.
_________________
Newsflash... the word "irony" doesn't mean "a bit like iron"

Some people say I'm egocentric... but hey, enough about them
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
Ur Dead
The Gap Into Spam

Male
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 1915

Thanks: 5
Thanked 14 Times in 13 Posts


3166 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Translation1 Diamondraught1 Lord's Staff


PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Then is Spousal privilege also not permitted?
Client lawyer privilege, if the lawyer knows the truth then isn't he
knowing, complicit and deliberate concealment and protection
of the perpetrator. It their job to defend but is their right to conceal?
That makes them party to the crime.
This is falling along those areas.
A very tricky slope.

Kill all the lawyers!... Razz

I wouldn't wish for something where it can
backfire on other area. You let the genie out of the bottle
you may unloosen a whole slew of stuff.
_________________
What's this silver looking ring doing on my finger?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
TheFallen
Master of Innominate Surquedry

Male
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 1607

Thanks: 23
Thanked 24 Times in 22 Posts

Location: Guildford, UK
17982 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH


PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ur Dead wrote:
Then is Spousal privilege also not permitted?
Client lawyer privilege, if the lawyer knows the truth then isn't he
knowing, complicit and deliberate concealment and protection
of the perpetrator. It their job to defend but is their right to conceal?
That makes them party to the crime.
This is falling along those areas.
A very tricky slope.

Kill all the lawyers!... Razz

I wouldn't wish for something where it can
backfire on other area. You let the genie out of the bottle
you may unloosen a whole slew of stuff.

Ur Dead, I'm not in the least wishing for something which doesn't already exist. There are at least several legislative principles and precedents which already are enshrined and in place, which would (IMV - though I am no trained lawyer) very definitely apply.

First off, to deal with your raised point on privilege. In my understanding, it is true that - currently at least - the right not to disclose evidence or information received relating to a crime outweighs the obligation to do so in certain defined relationships, including:-
    Spousal
    Attorney - Client
    Priest - Penitent (but solely applying to information received under the Seal of the Confessional)
    Oneself (the right not to self-incriminate)
I'm not (at this point) arguing that any of those privileges should be nullified.

However, when it comes to the knowing, complicit and deliberate concealment and protection of the perpetrators of criminal offences outside of the above, this would very definitely seem to involve or contravene some or all of the following existing legislation:-
    Mandatory reporting obligations (especially when involving allegations of child abuse, where the specific obligation to report is more stringent and - what's more - priests are one of the specifically named types of individual so obligated, precisely because of their frequent involvement with and being in a position of authority over children)
    Obstruction of justice / Perverting the course of justice
    Aiding and abetting
    Being an accessory after the fact / Conspiracy "In the United States, a person who learns of the crime and gives some form of assistance before the crime is committed is known as an "accessory before the fact". A person who learns of the crime after it is committed and helps the criminal to conceal it, or aids the criminal in escaping, or simply fails to report the crime, is known as an "accessory after the fact".
    Corporate or other institutional accountability / responsibility
Again to my understanding, failure to comply with the tenets of at least 4 of the 5 the above pieces of legislation is a criminal offence - albeit possibly only involving a gross misdemeanour, rather than a felony, but nonetheless criminal. TBF the last one may only involve civil, rather than criminal law, but contravening any of the others definitely falls into not only illegality but criminality as well.

So, it's still criminal behaviour, no matter how you cut it. And the laws legislating against such are absolutely already in place.

Ergo, the failure to report incidents of child abuse or allegations of such once known of by any within the hierarchy of the Catholic Church (an act of omission) - let alone their colluding in the concealment and protection of the perpetrators of such (an act of commission) - is blatantly and self-evidently criminal. Such individuals are therefore without doubt criminals, as such are legally culpable and again as such should be brought to justice to answer for their crimes - and that's before we've even touched on entirely separate (and bitterly ironic) issues of any moral obligation.
_________________
Newsflash... the word "irony" doesn't mean "a bit like iron"

Some people say I'm egocentric... but hey, enough about them
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
Ur Dead
The Gap Into Spam

Male
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 1915

Thanks: 5
Thanked 14 Times in 13 Posts


3166 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Translation1 Diamondraught1 Lord's Staff


PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand what you are saying.
But all I see is the wall falling.

When a crime of this nature is committed who complains?
Who should they file the complaint to. Usually they don't go to the local
authorities.
It's the duty of the government to investigate and if found valid, bring
charges.

This is true for all who commits this crime. Old man, middle age man, young man,
parent, woman in any level of life's standing.
But in most cases the complaint comes years after the incident.

In the cases of priests they are found out in their confessions.
They are then removed from their parish and place somewhere where they are no danger to the youths and are to preform penitence. In many cases
this last for years. This is done under the seal of the confessional.
So forcing a religion organization report the crime can be a violation of it's own doctrine. The Priest - Penitent privilege.
There have been a few who have been defrocked and sent off to the pokie.
(They are found out to continue their behavior and arn't considered
"A Penitent")

Which comes back to the role of the governments justice system. The finding and arrest of the criminal who did the act. Just like a drug dealer, murderer..etc. Extraditing from areas of the country to foreign countries.
What if a rabbi or Muslim cleric or Buddhist priest or some shaman from the
bush did the crime. How is that handled?

A very tricky slope it is.

Maybe this is why many of these crimes havn't been prosecuted. It happen years ago and may not be viable for conviction(Statues of Limitations)
And only now after years of no convictions because a government doesn't
act the pietistic call for blood and heads.
_________________
What's this silver looking ring doing on my finger?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
TheFallen
Master of Innominate Surquedry

Male
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 1607

Thanks: 23
Thanked 24 Times in 22 Posts

Location: Guildford, UK
17982 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH


PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ur Dead, you may understand what I'm saying - but you're still missing the central point.

Why do you think that so many of the abuses being reported now are "historic" and thus may fall outside the statute of limitations? It's because those abused have simply not felt able to report such abuse before to secular authorities, either through misplaced guilt, shame or simply being under the sway and control of an abusing authority figure.

So let me ask you what you consider should be done in this example:

A Catholic priest is abusing a number of boys over whom he has a level of authority. Three of those boys tell another priest about this - and not during confession. They don't tell anyone else (not even their parents) - for the reasons given above.

So, the secular authorities have no knowledge of any alleged crime being committed and therefore have no reason to investigate.

What do you think should happen in this instance?

Would it make a difference to your answer if the second priest had witnessed abuses occurring with his own eyes, rather than just having received reports from those being abused?

(And I think you'd find that the above hypothetical situation is fairly typical. There is nothing to suggest that the majority of abuses come to light under the Seal of the Confession).
_________________
Newsflash... the word "irony" doesn't mean "a bit like iron"

Some people say I'm egocentric... but hey, enough about them
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Kevin's Watch Forum Index -> Hile Troy's Think-Tank All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next
Page 6 of 10

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by Earthpower © Kevin's Watch