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The Mueller Investigation
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The facts re: the Mueller Investigation at this time are as follows:

it did not produce the results Democrats hoped that it would

it did not catch any big fish or produce any smoking guns

most of the charges were levied against Russian officials, none of whom will ever see the inside of a United States courtroom

some of the foundation documents which led to the Mueller Investigation have been discovered to be false

the Attorney General will release the report next week


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
The facts re: the Mueller Investigation at this time are as follows:

it did not produce the results Democrats hoped that it would

Lets unpack this FACT. First it wasnt a Democrat Investigation .. so whether or not it met their hopes and dreams is not relevant. This FACT is not a fact relevant to this exercise.

Hashi wrote:
it did not catch any big fish or produce any smoking guns


Ok if we are going to do this we have to take stock of what we to date know.
1. It proved Russian interference
2. It charged 13 Russian nationals who worked for the Russian government
3. It charged 2 additional Russian nationals .. Butina and a lawyer. Fortunately Butina was on US soil and will attend a US court to answer those charges.

The rest I grant you .. in part but we will come back to that part.

Hashi wrote:
most of the charges were levied against Russian officials, none of whom will ever see the inside of a United States courtroom
Very true for the most part .. with the exception of Butina ... but that is not relevant to the FACTS of the investigation.

[quote"Hashi"]some of the foundation documents which led to the Mueller Investigation have been discovered to be false[/quote] Now this is interesting. Some of is not sufficiently specific .. truly if we do want to unpack the relevant facts. Which documents and to fully understand what we are truly looking at we might need more information about the entire scope of what initiated the Investugation.

So ok .. we have "some documents" .. but we know that the investigation was based on intelligence input. So we should look at what that was.

Hashi wrote:
... the Attorney General will release the report next week


Well I doubt we will have much to go on .. but we will have some. My guess is that Barr will redact most of it.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only a blind idiot would fail to see why the Obama administration would want to spy on Trump's campaign. Then again, I guess you'll just get surprised again when it eventually comes out that he used a Fisa warrant to wiretap Trump Tower.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOLS .. blind idiot, you say 😉
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The redacted copy of the Mueller Report is now available for the public to read and/or download.

House Democrats are upset about how Barr had a press conference before releasing the report. Truthfully, they were going to be upset in any event, because the report does not give them what they wanted--a smoking gun with which to impeach Trump.

No collusion, no coordination with Russian officials, and no clear evidence of obstruction of justice by Trump, even if some actions he took were not obstruction only because people working for him told him "you can't do that".

Democratic Presidential candidate/hopeful Eric Swalwell--who? *shrug* never heard of him before--wants Barr to resign. That isn't going to happen, Mr. Swalwell.

Anyway, as their reporters read through the pieces of the report they are able to read, CNN is live-updating its main story.

Ultimately, the Investigation really did not produce significant results.

edit/update: It is funny to watch the live updates on CNN--they are reading something nefarious into everything Trump or his staff might have done, said, not done, or not said. They think that everything is suspect--that's actually pathetic.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive been listening to NPR on and off today.
Much gnashing about Russian giving hacked DNC and Podesta emails that were damning to Hilliary to Wikileaks and Trump saying he loves Wikileaks......
Guest after guest saying that Trump is the bad guy for....saying he loves Wikileaks......
Laughing
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

High Lord Tolkien wrote:
Ive been listening to NPR on and off today.
Much gnashing about Russian giving hacked DNC and Podesta emails that were damning to Hilliary to Wikileaks and Trump saying he loves Wikileaks......
Guest after guest saying that Trump is the bad guy for....saying he loves Wikileaks......
Laughing


And someone got offended in real life when I suggested to them that NPR was biased.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

High Lord Tolkien wrote:
Guest after guest saying that Trump is the bad guy for....saying he loves Wikileaks...... Laughing

It brings them out of the woodwork.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jerry Nadler, chair of the House Judiciary Committee, has issued a subpoena for the entire, unredacted Mueller report and is calling for Mueller to testify before Congress. This is the same Jerry Nadler who, back in the late 90s, was telling everyone that the Ken Starr report was unimportant and that it should not be released.

Anyway, he is within his legal authority to subpoena the report but the Justice Department has until 1 May to respond; they would be within their legal authority, based on how the laws are written, to refuse the subpoena.

I am uncertain what anyone in Congress thinks Mueller is going to say in person that he did not already say in his report.

Democrats simply cannot handle losing. They bet a lot of chips on the report finding some smoking gun they could use to impeach Trump and so they are upset now that they spent all that time and money for nothing.

I will give this thread a few more weeks, time enough for Mueller to testify before Congress and/or the unredacted report to make its way to Congress. Truthfully, the unredacted report is not going to contain any smoking guns, either. After that, I will wind up closing this thread because the report is over and there simply isn't anything to see--another case of "Al Capone's vault".

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:

I will give this thread a few more weeks, time enough for Mueller to testify before Congress and/or the unredacted report to make its way to Congress. Truthfully, the unredacted report is not going to contain any smoking guns, either. After that, I will wind up closing this thread because the report is over and there simply isn't anything to see--another case of "Al Capone's vault". [/color]


I really hate the fact that you close threads based on your own personal opinion about the topic being closed.
If someone wants to post about the Mueller report two months or two years from now let them.
Why do we have to create a new thread to talk about the same topic?
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

High Lord Tolkien wrote:
I really hate the fact that you close threads based on your own personal opinion about the topic being closed.
If someone wants to post about the Mueller report two months or two years from now let them.
Why do we have to create a new thread to talk about the same topic?


To date, I don't recall that I have ever closed a thread based on my own personal opinions--that's a good point.

You convinced me--the thread stays open.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
High Lord Tolkien wrote:
I really hate the fact that you close threads based on your own personal opinion about the topic being closed.
If someone wants to post about the Mueller report two months or two years from now let them.
Why do we have to create a new thread to talk about the same topic?


To date, I don't recall that I have ever closed a thread based on my own personal opinions--that's a good point.

You convinced me--the thread stays open.


Sorry, rereading that I don't know why I said "personal opinion".
Sounds strange to me now.
I just don't see any reason to close a thread unless it turns ugly. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
The redacted copy of the Mueller Report is now available for the public to read and/or download.

House Democrats are upset about how Barr had a press conference before releasing the report. Truthfully, they were going to be upset in any event, because the report does not give them what they wanted--a smoking gun with which to impeach Trump.

No collusion, no coordination with Russian officials, and no clear evidence of obstruction of justice by Trump, even if some actions he took were not obstruction only because people working for him told him "you can't do that".

Democratic Presidential candidate/hopeful Eric Swalwell--who? *shrug* never heard of him before--wants Barr to resign. That isn't going to happen, Mr. Swalwell.

Anyway, as their reporters read through the pieces of the report they are able to read, CNN is live-updating its main story.

Ultimately, the Investigation really did not produce significant results.

edit/update: It is funny to watch the live updates on CNN--they are reading something nefarious into everything Trump or his staff might have done, said, not done, or not said. They think that everything is suspect--that's actually pathetic.


Im still reading it and IT IS very interesting. Im still in Volume One .. most are focussed on volume Two, I note.

What struck me in Vol 1 is the number of times members of the Trump campaign including family members had contact with foreign nationals, Russian hackers and operatives AND foreign government officials and did NOT declare it. I wonder if anyone declared it during certain individuals applications for security clearances. I am flabbergasted by that.

But I have much more to read.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skyweir wrote:
What struck me in Vol 1 is the number of times members of the Trump campaign including family members had contact with foreign nationals, Russian hackers and operatives AND foreign government officials and did NOT declare it. I wonder if anyone declared it during certain individuals applications for security clearances. I am flabbergasted by that.


If the special investigator's team did not see any reason to bring criminal charges against anyone based on these contacts then the rest of us may ignore them, as well. There still isn't much to see that hasn't already been made public.

As noted, the Justice Department has a few weeks to respond to the subpoena for the unredacted version, so it won't be long after Congress gets it that someone will leak it to the press and then we will all have access to it.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its surely not as easy to dismiss as that?

Mueller makes it very clear that he does not pursue criminal charges against Trump because of the DOJ policy of not indicting a sitting president ... though clearly notes no such protectionist policy applies when he is out of office.

My point is that just because no charges are brought relating to his investigation does NOT denote an absence of wrong doing let alone inappropriate behaviour and practices.

It seems a number of individuals were spared charges simply because the evidentiary documentation was destroyed prior to DOJs access. Thats a shame but a plus for those who skated through by the skin of their teeth.
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