Kevin's Watch Forum Index
 HomeHome   MemberlistMemberlist   RegisterRegister   SearchSearch   ProfileProfile   FAQFAQ   StatisticsStatistics  SudokuSudoku   Phoogle MapPhoogle Map 
 AlbumAlbum StoresStores   StoresItems Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

thoughts PRIOR to rereading

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Kevin's Watch Forum Index -> The First and Second Chronicles of Thomas Covenant
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Arch of the Covenant
Servant of the Land


Joined: 23 Jan 2013
Posts: 8

Thanks: 11
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts


128 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:22 pm    Post subject: thoughts PRIOR to rereading Reply with quote

I haven't read the first or second trilogies since my first reading decades ago. I've got fond memories of them, obviously, but I've been focused on other reading and almost never read a book a second time.

But now that I'm knee-deep in the 3rd trilogy, I am going to dive back in. I thought I'd post my memories and recollections here before rereading, just for fun.

...

I remember most of the characters, the general sweep of the story, and certain specific events that made a big impact on first reading. I am really looking forward to Lord Fouls Bane to go through Covenant's first introduction to the Land again. That chapter where he is translated over and gets addressed by Foul and Drool always stuck out in my mind. And the slow but steady revelations of the nature and character of the Land and its people are going to be a treat.

I don't remember being offended or scandalized by the rape scene. It was just a scene, not an advocacy for violence the way some reviewers seem to have taken it, and Covenant spends most of his time being anti-heroic anyway. It's the way it gets handled that's interesting.

I remember a similar impression my wife had when we were watching an episode of the Brady Bunch with our young kids (on DVD!) and Greg was *smoking*! She wanted to turn it off so our kids wouldn't see it, but I kept it on so they could see the whole episode. They needed to see how Greg and his family HANDLED the smoking issue. It was a way to learn. SRD used this as a device to highlight the initial culture clash (among other things), and I was never for a moment turned off from reading the rest of the book.

Whoops -- lunch is over. More later...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
wayfriend
whilom witling

Male
Joined: 21 Apr 2004
Posts: 19121

Thanks: 11
Thanked 224 Times in 207 Posts

Location: The world of the Bowling Green Massacre
44209 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
3 Member of Linden's Army


PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi AotC.

I'm a re-reader. I never understood how people can think re-watching a movie is normal, but re-reading a book is weird. I certainly enjoy it -- as long as enough time has gone by. Anyway ...

I predict you will be delighted by the parts you for forgot about.

I predict you will have new insights into the parts you didn't.

I sorta kinda envy you your journey.
_________________
* I occasionally post things on KevinsWatch because I am a fan of Stephen R. Donaldson; this should not be considered as condonation of the white nationalist propaganda for which this forum has become a platform.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Vraith
Obligate Metaphor


Joined: 21 Nov 2008
Posts: 10555

Thanks: 17
Thanked 98 Times in 95 Posts

Location: everywhere, all the time
31080 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Raver1 Wraith1 Caesure


PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayfriend wrote:
Hi AotC.

I'm a re-reader. I never understood how people can think re-watching a movie is normal, but re-reading a book is weird. I certainly enjoy it -- as long as enough time has gone by. Anyway ...

I predict you will be delighted by the parts you for forgot about.

I predict you will have new insights into the parts you didn't.

I sorta kinda envy you your journey.

Heh...on the one, especially cuz re-reading is far more likely to give new notice than re-watching.

on another...wouldn't it be damn cool if we could "re-read" with memories and "re-read" without? I wonder what would happen??? [ok, i'm way off-topic here, but I don't care.] But it might be amazing to say something like
"I've read it for the first time 3 times, and second time only twice, but third time 10 times..."

especially if you could further alter and compare:
" the first first time I read it I....
"the second first time reminded me of a thing from my 4th third time...

_________________
Spoiler:
Sig-man, Libtard, Stupid piece of shit. change your text color to brown. Mr. Reliable, bullshit-slinging liarFucker-user.

the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Arch of the Covenant
Servant of the Land


Joined: 23 Jan 2013
Posts: 8

Thanks: 11
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts


128 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayfriend wrote:

I never understood how people can think re-watching a movie is normal, but re-reading a book is weird. I certainly enjoy it


It's just that there are so many other things to read -- hard to justify going back. Unless it's really good and deep.

Quote:

I sorta kinda envy you your journey.


I envy me.

I am looking forward to Mhoram's introduction, the bloodguard, etc. Those were such crisp characters with so much more in store for them, it will be wild to re-experience their relative innocence.

One thing I'll be particularly looking out for is Covenant's debate within himself as to his unbelief and its implications. I'm thinking of writing a story or two of my own that may tap into that concept.

The Illearth War is probably what I'm looking most forward to -- it was my favorite. Hile Troy enacted what Covenant wouldn't -- a real fight for the Land. Of course, he was blind (yuk) to the dangers of power and resolution. One of my favorite characters. I have been surprised reading reviews on Amazon (and some posts here) saying they didn't like this book or Hile Troy's character. So I'm wondering if I'll change my opinions this next time through.

The Wounded Land is a close second to IW, and there seems to be wide consensus on that. TOT is going to be wild -- I must have slept through most of it because I can't remember much at all. For instance I had no recollection whatsoever of Nom. And I can't really remember anything specific about the last book, except the end. Pretty sad considering these have been some of my favorite books.

I will venture to say that part of my problem is this whole internet age. It's very easy to get caught up in the web, computer games, etc, and leave the world of novels behind. When I did return to reading some years back, it was in the context of a typical book group, and the books were generally the type of critically-acclaimed fiction you'd see promoted in bookstores. Good stuff for the most part, but I only got them to agree to a sci-fi book once (Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson). And even then, something as epic as a trilogy (or three) would have been way out of scope.

But the Lord of the Rings films have done much to legitimize the genre, and the eReader market might be doing much to boost things too, so here's hoping to see a big boost here when the last book comes out.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
peter
the spider from Mars


Joined: 25 Aug 2009
Posts: 7884

Thanks: 39
Thanked 51 Times in 50 Posts


33744 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The second reading of a book is always going to be coloured by the first, and may well result in a better reading experience thereby. It is not by any means always the case that the first read of a book will be the prime one. Try *The Dictionary of the Khazars* by Milorad Pavic as an example.
_________________
http://jhfv.blogspot.co.uk/

....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'

We are the Bloodguard
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zarathustra
Be True


Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 17914

Thanks: 37
Thanked 181 Times in 173 Posts


25433 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arch, lots of others are currently rereading in preparation for the grand finale. I've posted some of my impressions in at least two threads (here and AATE forum). Let us know how it goes for you. I'm fascinated with the process of experiencing the story all over again, how it changes for me over time. At this point, I don't really see things in the text that I've never seen before; no new insights. It's more a journey of self-exploration, noting what works for me and what doesn't, and how my opinions have changed. For instance, I've always thought The Illearth War was my favorite, too, and dreaded slogging through The Power that Preserves. But this time I liked TPTP better. And it's always been a toss up for me between the 1st and 2nd Chrons, but halfway through TWL I'm really enjoying how much SRD's writing skills have matured, and how much more his narrative is focused than the often meandering, slow start to LFB.
_________________
Meaning is created internally by each individual in each specific life: any attempt at *meaning* which relies on some kind of external superstructure (God, Satan, the Creator, the Worm, whatever) for its substance misses the point (I mean the point of my story). -SRD

Remain faithful to the earth, my brothers, with the power of your virtue. Let your gift-giving love and your knowledge serve the meaning of the earth ... Do not let them fly away from earthly things and beat with their wings against eternal walls. Alas, there has always been so much virtue that has flown away. Lead back to the earth the virtue that flew away, as I do-back to the body, back to life, that it may give the earth a meaning, a human meaning. -Nietzsche
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Krazy Kat
~*~


Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 1664

Thanks: 3
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts

Location: Sky Blue City England
88 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Soaring Woodhelvin


PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarathustra wrote:
the often meandering, slow start to LFB.


The passage when he was explaining Covenant's medical symptoms and medication, all in slow clunky sentences. I think SRD may have left that in to show both the reader and himself the process of writing and with it the development and emergence of the story.

Tolkien had mentioned in the extensive foreword to TLOTR that he had made some minor and major mistakes, but felt the need to leave them in unaltered.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zarathustra
Be True


Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 17914

Thanks: 37
Thanked 181 Times in 173 Posts


25433 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, I was talking about his adventures in the Land; I liked the medical info in ch1. His journey with Atiaran and then Foamfollower are tedious and boring. The Celebration of Spring is the only significant event that has anything to do with later books or character development. Everything important about Atiaran had already happened once he raped her daughter, and nothing important about Foamfollower happens until Soaring Woodhelvinin. I do acknowledge, however, it says something about Atiaran for her to help Covenant after her daughter was raped, but this one point doesn't carry the entire journey to Revelstone.
_________________
Meaning is created internally by each individual in each specific life: any attempt at *meaning* which relies on some kind of external superstructure (God, Satan, the Creator, the Worm, whatever) for its substance misses the point (I mean the point of my story). -SRD

Remain faithful to the earth, my brothers, with the power of your virtue. Let your gift-giving love and your knowledge serve the meaning of the earth ... Do not let them fly away from earthly things and beat with their wings against eternal walls. Alas, there has always been so much virtue that has flown away. Lead back to the earth the virtue that flew away, as I do-back to the body, back to life, that it may give the earth a meaning, a human meaning. -Nietzsche
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Iolanthe
Proudly wearing Purple

FemaleRanyhyn
Joined: 05 Feb 2012
Posts: 3310

Thanks: 3
Thanked 34 Times in 32 Posts

Location: Lincolnshire, England
6698 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of Linden's Army1 Glimmermere1 Plains of Ra


PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarathustra wrote:
His journey with Atiaran and then Foamfollower are tedious and boring. The Celebration of Spring is the only significant event that has anything to do with later books or character development.


I think that the finding of the dead Waynhim was also an important occurrence during the journey to Revelstone. I found that part quite interesting, especially Atiaran's "talking" back. Foamfollower's method of propelling the boat also introduces us to another facet of the magic of the land.
_________________
I am playing all the right notes, but not necessarily in the right order!

"I must state plainly, Linden, that you have become wondrous in my sight."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Phoogle Map
Krazy Kat
~*~


Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 1664

Thanks: 3
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts

Location: Sky Blue City England
88 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Soaring Woodhelvin


PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be honest, I really can't remember much at all about my first read. The only part that grabbed me was the battle of Soaring Woodhelven - weeks later. I've spoke about this on another thread. The griffin with an ur-vile on it's back piqued my imagination. The deciding factor to continue reading into The Illearth War. I was convinced from that moment on, that there was something special just below the surface - or more accurately - in the higher conciousness.

So I'm sure to agree with you that Covenant's journey to Revelstone must have been a slog for me as well.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dlbpharmd
Lord

MaleRanyhyn
Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 14320

Thanks: 5
Thanked 51 Times in 50 Posts

Location: Jacksboro, TN.
15034 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH1 2007 Watcher of the Year1 2007 Watchies


PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The journey with Foamfollower to Revelstone is the best part of LFB, IMO.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger Phoogle Map
michaelm
Kevin's Watchmaker

Male
Joined: 20 Aug 2014
Posts: 1454

Thanks: 13
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts

Location: location, location
3559 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Covenant's Novels1 Earthblood1 Skyweir


PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am re-reading the first and second chronicles right now (I'm near the end of The Illearth War), and if I recall correctly, I think it was over 25 years ago that I last read them.

It's been interesting re-reading them, and a few things stand out:

1. It's amazing how familiar the books are to me - that is probably testament to the quality of Donaldson's writing

2. I have not had to reach for a dictionary or puzzle over any words or phrases, which I think I did the first time I read them. I think that is probably a combination of a generally increased vocabulary, and having added the words directly to my vocabulary the first time around

3. Compared to previous readings, I think I am finding the books lighter going in general. Donaldson probably represented the more difficult end of literature to me at the time I originally read them, but since that time I have read much more 'difficult' works, and so that element of the books is totally missing this time (which is a good thing!)

4. This is something like my 4th time reading them, and I think I see the wholeness of the Land and the characters in it much more. Perhaps an introduction to them is a lot of information to take in all in one go, but familiarity makes for a much more comfortable whole than before.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ussusimiel
Ghurning

Male
Joined: 31 May 2011
Posts: 5346

Thanks: 69
Thanked 66 Times in 63 Posts

Location: Waterford (milking cows), and sometimes still Dublin, Ireland
8015 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Unfettered1 Member of THOOLAH1 2011 Watchies


PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm currently doing a kind of a reread. I just finished The Wounded Land. I was interested to note this time how well paced this book is. Lots and lots happens and yet it never feels like a fantasy-action novel. I think that this is partly because of how well SRD portions out the amount of information that Covenant and Linden get about their situation. The non-stop action actually helps with this. They are rarely ever relaxed enough to be able to sit down and talk about stuff with Sunder or whoever.

It's also interesting to see how little Covenant knows about Linden by the end of the book. It was the same for us as first-time readers. She is still an intriguing mystery going into The One Tree. Top-class plotting and storytelling!

u.
_________________
Tho' all the maps of blood and flesh
Are posted on the door,
There's no one who has told us yet
What Boogie Street is for.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
wayfriend
whilom witling

Male
Joined: 21 Apr 2004
Posts: 19121

Thanks: 11
Thanked 224 Times in 207 Posts

Location: The world of the Bowling Green Massacre
44209 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
3 Member of Linden's Army


PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bump for Emayl, who has some work to do. Wink
_________________
* I occasionally post things on KevinsWatch because I am a fan of Stephen R. Donaldson; this should not be considered as condonation of the white nationalist propaganda for which this forum has become a platform.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
DrPaul
Giantfriend


Joined: 18 Jun 2009
Posts: 455

Thanks: 3
Thanked 12 Times in 10 Posts


2438 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me one of the most interesting aspects of re-reading is finding out how I've changed, and how differently I think, compared to when I read the books previously, as I find myself reacting differently to particular scenes and themes in my most recent re-read to what I did in previous readings.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Skyweir
Lord of Light


Joined: 16 Mar 2002
Posts: 17031

Thanks: 18
Thanked 62 Times in 62 Posts

Location: Australia
30845 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Lord's Staff1 Oath of Peace1 Furls Fire


PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Niiiccee .. I like this a lot. Its the introspective nature of the process that appeals to me. I also am a re reader .. re reading my faves is always a fascinating journey where I find things I missed and relive the fantasy I loved.

Nicely described Dr Paul 👌
_________________
health and healing

'Smoke me a kipper .. I'll be back for breakfast!'
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
booktrunk
Servant of the Land


Joined: 06 Dec 2010
Posts: 5

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts


19 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrPaul wrote:
For me one of the most interesting aspects of re-reading is finding out how I've changed, and how differently I think, compared to when I read the books previously, as I find myself reacting differently to particular scenes and themes in my most recent re-read to what I did in previous readings.


Snap.

Going to start a re-read soon, and these days with dogs, work, tv, the Internet, I will struggle to dedicate the time it deserves so looking forward to seeing how it goes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Kevin's Watch Forum Index -> The First and Second Chronicles of Thomas Covenant All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by Earthpower © Kevin's Watch