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The Redemption of She Who Must Not Be Named
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Redemption of She Who Must Not Be Named..

Did she really need redemption or did she just need to remember who
she was. Saying "I am myself" means she didn't care to have a name.
She had to remember what was she was and what she was going to do.
In the case of a cosmic being.. anything they want to do and nobody was
going to stop her.

Good ole Foul got a taste of a passing retribution as she passed. Any lesser
being would have stuck around, made a mop out of Foul and clean out Gravin Threndor of all the evil in the place. All in time for lunch.

I wouldn't dare meet her in a dark alley.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Absolutely she needed to be saved.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:39 pm    Post subject: Re: The Redemption of She Who Must Not Be Named Reply with quote

wayfriend wrote:
In the end, what frees She Who Must Not Be Named from her torment, and her prison, is the release of the souls she kept within herself. She did not know who She was, because She had made of herself an amalgamation of individuals, and in her grief had drowned herself in a sea of misery.

I need to publish a public retraction about this.

I have been listening on my last pass through the Chronicles, and I picked up some things that I hadn't picked up before.

In The Last Dark was wrote:
"I AM MYSELF!"

When Linden's heart beat again, she was no longer inside the bane. Instead she had the sensation that she was being carried; cradled with the tenderness of a lover. Powers that surpassed understanding protected her from the ruination of the Lost Deep.

She was given a moment to watch the bane release souls into the waiting arms and mouths and bodies of the ur-viles and the Waynhim: a torrent of long anguish so suddenly relieved that she could not name what became of it.

As you can see, my earlier interpretation of the order of events is wrong. SWMNBN did not release the souls and then become herself; she became herself and then released the souls.

The former sequence suggests that the captured souls are part of her identity problem - an idea I was fond of. The latter sequence suggests that the souls were released as a gift perhaps, or were unloaded, as Linden suggests, so that they would not hinder Her departure. Or maybe She simply didn't care any more.

The sequence of events is much clearer to me now.
  1. SWMNBN tells Linden she must have her true name in order to be released.
  2. Linden suddenly deduces that Emereau Vrai must know her true name.
  3. Linden requests Emereau Vrai be released to the Demondim-spawn.
  4. Emereau Vrai is released to the Demondim-spawn; they accept her "gladly".
  5. The Demondim-spawn "consume" Emereau Vrai; they become taller, more human.
  6. The Demondim-spawn chant "at the bane".
  7. She responded with the cry, "I AM MYSELF".
It's fairly straightforward now to see that Emereau Vrai must have known Her true name all along, that the Demondim-spawn learned of it when they incorporated her spirit, and then they barked it to She. A bit clever, really, in that we never get to hear her name as it's spoken in Vilish, but neither do we need to.

So if anyone else understood it this way and I suggested you were not entirely accurate, my apologies.

I don't think any of this has larger implications for the Redemption of She Who Must Not Be Named. It was still Linden who had the insight, and who provided the impetus, for Her restoration. But the Demondim-spawn provided a necessary element that I did not see.

Alas, I am not as fond of this better interpretation of events. Linden's sudden idea feels a bit unearned. And the solution to the whole name issue is far more mundane, less connected to the larger issues of identity explored in the Chronicles. I admit I was maybe seduced by the beauty of my incorrect notions.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:01 pm    Post subject: Re: The Redemption of She Who Must Not Be Named Reply with quote

wayfriend wrote:

The former sequence suggests that the captured souls are part of her identity problem - an idea I was fond of. The latter sequence suggests that the souls were released as a gift perhaps, or were unloaded, as Linden suggests, so that they would not hinder Her departure. Or maybe She simply didn't care any more.

Alas, I am not as fond of this better interpretation of events. Linden's sudden idea feels a bit unearned. And the solution to the whole name issue is far more mundane, less connected to the larger issues of identity explored in the Chronicles. I admit I was maybe seduced by the beauty of my incorrect notions.


I guess I am confused...why can't it be both? Why cannot it be true that part of SWMBN problem was mixed identity AND be true that before she took her place up in the cosmos that she released the other spirits. There are possible explanations for releasing them ...as you mention...as a gift or not to hinder her departure. Or if you are a cosmic being about to depart to cosmic plane I think there is good rationale that you cannot be dragging along non cosmic entities that don't belong or prepared for that existence

PS when I say cosmic/cosmos ...is just my lack of wording for what else to call where she goes...so if someone has better name for where she goes I will happily edit this post Very Happy
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems to me that the most straightforward explanation is that SWMNBN's crisis of identity and purpose both predated her devouring of souls and is what caused her to begin devouring souls in the first place. Once her crisis of identity and purpose was solved, releasing the captured souls was simply the right thing for her to do. Having rediscovered her original purpose and identity, she could not simply have been neutral towards the suffering of those souls. She had to contribute to their redemption and apotheosis as an act of expiation.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with both of those points; they are very possible possibilities.

I don't think we were ever told how SWMNBN came to forget her own name. (Am I wrong?) So we cannot ever be really sure what is the relationship between her lost name and the devoured souls. Of the souls themselves, we have it from Donaldson that she devoured them in a response to her grief at being jilted.
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