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The Coming Wave of Dead Rock Stars

 
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 4:53 pm    Post subject: The Coming Wave of Dead Rock Stars Reply with quote

Rock is truly dying. I think I've been in denial about this for quite a while. It took a hit in the 70s with disco, then in the 80s with synth pop, but there were always reasons for hope. Most of the 70s bands--while drastically changing their style for the worse--were still working in the 80s. And then grunge came along to give the hair metals bands a kick in the ass. But once the 2000s rolled along, there were no more kicks. Just mediocre rock. Some classic rock acts rolled out and had a few reunion/nostalgia tours, and proved that their audience, at least, was still alive. But what the hell happened to NEW music? I don't think we'll ever get another decade like the 70s, when rock could experiment so drastically and yet have widespread commercial success. Yes, I know there are a few bands that are still experimental, but these aren't on the radio like, say, Bohemian Rhapsody was.

And it's not just the music, the rock stars themselves are all dying off. And this is just the beginning. There is a massive list of true legends who are in their 70s. Eddie Money and Rick Ocasek are merely the most recent examples.

The coming death of just about every rock legend

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Behold the killing fields that lie before us: Bob Dylan (78 years old); Paul McCartney (77); Paul Simon (77) and Art Garfunkel (77); Carole King (77); Brian Wilson (77); Mick Jagger (76) and Keith Richards (75); Joni Mitchell (75); Jimmy Page (75) and Robert Plant (71); Ray Davies (75); Roger Daltrey (75) and Pete Townshend (74); Roger Waters (75) and David Gilmour (73); Rod Stewart (74); Eric Clapton (74); Debbie Harry (74); Neil Young (73); Van Morrison (73); Bryan Ferry (73); Elton John (72); Don Henley (72); James Taylor (71); Jackson Browne (70); Billy Joel (70); and Bruce Springsteen (69, but turning 70 next month).


Luciano: Beware of coming 'tidal wave' of rock-star deaths

I think the members of Rush will be the ones who hit me the hardest, all of whom are now pushing 70 themselves. I'm honored to have seen them live at least a dozen times. Thank you so much for such wonderful music!

Now, kids, get out there and ROCK! Don't let it die with these giants.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think downloadable music ... MP3s, iPods, iTunes, etc ... killed Rock and Roll.

Not sure how. But it did.

Probably because it was the beginning of the end of the album.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But if that was true, then it would affect all genres. Country, pop and hip hop are still making money.

I'm not sure what happened. There has always been corporate pressure for singles. But the public supported more diverse styles and experimentation at one time.

There are no "rock gods" anymore. No Robert Plants or Jimmy Hendrix. Hell, I can't name a single "guitar hero" from this century. It's just not heard of anymore.
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Remain faithful to the earth, my brothers, with the power of your virtue. Let your gift-giving love and your knowledge serve the meaning of the earth ... Do not let them fly away from earthly things and beat with their wings against eternal walls. Alas, there has always been so much virtue that has flown away. Lead back to the earth the virtue that flew away, as I do-back to the body, back to life, that it may give the earth a meaning, a human meaning. -Nietzsche
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems there is a formula for how they want music to be recorded. People want a specific 'sound' or have been programmed to want a specific "sound". I don't think anyone who lived in the era of the 60,s 70's and some of the 80's truly realized just how special a time in music that was.

Now as I type that, music has evolved somewhat to something I just don't like. Rap and Hip Hop. Hip hop has started taking some of the old jazz, blue, and rock songs and adding rap tracks to them. I dont find that creative but some of those songs have found traction.

But then I also have to remember that Zeppelin did remakes of many old blues songs that I thought were 'new' only to find years later that they were remakes of great old blues songs.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Today's Country music is yesterday's Rock, imo.
For the most part.
There are obviously different genres within each.

For example, if I traveled back to the 60's and 70's and played some Blackberry Smoke songs from today no one then would have called it Country music I bet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRXHrWhIIyE


And yeah, now that I'm in my 50's I'm starting to hear a lot of names I familiar with from all areas passing away.
It sucks.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was a time when Rock bands shared the spotlight with what was considered pop music however the genres began to become so disparate that one day Rock was shouldered aside leaving the mutating pop landscape to take on its own direction, evolution. Dance music, hip hop, rap, techno, boy bands still have strands of rock dna but you would have to be a hard core music biologist to be able to identify the sources. In truth there are rock bands performing nightly across the country and largely in greater numbers than ever before but none of those acts and artists are capable of capturing the national spotlight, no matter how much blood, sweat and tears they expend in the effort. Its possible the future will permit a rock resurgence but I don't know if it will happen in my lifetime.
The loss of Rock icons like Ric Ocasek due to advancing age are just a reminder of just how long its been since rock music was nationally relevant. If I'm being honest its kind of depressing. But it would only take one legitimate rock band, breaking big country wide, to potentially bring the genre back to prominence.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel like Rock lost when we entered the age of instantly available music. The music that won was the music of instant engagement and short attention spans - dance/pop/hiphop - driven by numbers of likes.

You don't instantly like rock and roll. You need to develop a modicum of musical sensibility to find it's pleasures. Seriously ... my kids can't stand most rock music because it's too slow! That, and there are parts with no words! What kind of music is that! Meanwhile, I think the music that they like is mostly not really music - take away the singer and it's just a sampled drum track and an odd chord on a keyboard.

When I grew up, listening to rock music was somewhat rebellious. Even a little nerdy. There's no similar kind of rebellion in the age of social media - everyone wants to be like everyone else.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see the correlation to download speed and attention span. A song still takes about 3 minutes to play, no matter when you get it. And given that all songs download at roughly the same speed, why would this skew to any particular genre?

There are plenty of rock songs that start fast and stay fast. There are plenty of rock songs that are catchy. There are some you can even dance to.

It could just be that kids don't like what their parents listen to. The rebellious nature of rock music is backfiring, because kids see it as something that old farts like.

Atomic wrote:
But it would only take one legitimate rock band, breaking big country wide, to potentially bring the genre back to prominence.
Maybe. Greta Van Fleet is young and rockin'. I hope they do well, because they sure sound good (though derivative).
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Remain faithful to the earth, my brothers, with the power of your virtue. Let your gift-giving love and your knowledge serve the meaning of the earth ... Do not let them fly away from earthly things and beat with their wings against eternal walls. Alas, there has always been so much virtue that has flown away. Lead back to the earth the virtue that flew away, as I do-back to the body, back to life, that it may give the earth a meaning, a human meaning. -Nietzsche
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This discussion rolls out every now and again, and it is just old person grousing. Music is ever changing, and just because you don't like the music of today (and mostly neither do I), it doesn't mean "rock is dead."
However, there is a point to the death of true rock stars, and while we still have all the bubblegum pop idols which we did back in the 70's and 80s, my personal theory is that it is because of the death of the liner notes.
When I bought an album, it was awesome to sit down with the album, follow along with the lyric sheet and during the instrumental you would look at the idiot pictures of the band, usually in all their hairy glory. And here's the important point: you'd LEARN THEIR NAMES. I've asked young'uns that I work with to name a band that you can name all the members of. Those that grew up with MP3s and such simply can't. Us old folk could usually at minimum name 5 off the top of their head, and if they thought about it, could name 3 or 4 more. I realized because many of us grew up with albums, and it was fun to pour over the art and words and see who they thank. It used to be part of the experience. I remember the first time I looked at a Queen album and it didn't say "no synths," that the band may have finally left me behind. Punk albums were great because they had silly names. The Dead Milkmen changed their names slightly every album, and it was a source of joy for me to see what they called themselves this time. CDs made it smaller and it took a bit more to pour over the liner notes, particularly if they decided to get pretty verbose. Once people downloaded from the internet, we lost that connection to the band. Sure, you develop it a bit by going to see them play live, or by watching their music videos, but if you don't seek it out, it is hard to feel the attachment that many of us have for "our band."
And it is totally why this happened.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again, Cag, if that were the case, there's no reason why it wouldn't affect all genres of music. And your examples might be a bit too personal. While I can name all the members of my favorite bands, I don't know the bassist or drummer of Aerosmith . . . and yet I know their songs. Being able to know all the members isn't what made them big. Besides, we have Wikipedia today, and social media, which puts info and news about music out there in much more detail that we could have dreamed of in our youth.

This has nothing to do with whether or not we like the music of today. It's an economic fact. Rock bands no longer sell like they used to, not compared to pop, rap, hip hop, country. In the top 25 downloaded songs, there are only 3 rock bands: Coldplay, Kings of Leon, and Journey. The latter is the only band on the list with a song more than 5 years old (at the time of the list which I read . . . I'll look for the link).
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Remain faithful to the earth, my brothers, with the power of your virtue. Let your gift-giving love and your knowledge serve the meaning of the earth ... Do not let them fly away from earthly things and beat with their wings against eternal walls. Alas, there has always been so much virtue that has flown away. Lead back to the earth the virtue that flew away, as I do-back to the body, back to life, that it may give the earth a meaning, a human meaning. -Nietzsche
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of my guesses is that there is a portion of the younger crowd that used to yearn for rock music has turned to social media and moreso video games as their outlets.

I have seen a increase of countless hours spent by my sons and their friends on social media sites - Facebook, Snapchat, etc.

I have also seen a huge increase of video game playing in the last ten years - countless hours by my own sons and their friends and their friends friends and so forth.

So in both cases in our youth we spent time and effort seeking out music and bands and albums now is spent in these endeavors. So they may have music in background but no real investment in the song or the group.

Whereas the country, hip hop, etc have always attracted a certain type of crowds which gaming is likely as not as strong appeal or at least not for as long as hours.

Also some of what they call country has always been blurry in my opinion. I have listened to so called "country" music and some seems like pop type rock to me.

Anyways...would be interesting if anyone ever did a study about all of this.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funny enough, I took a trip back in time recently.. well kinda.

My wife and I went to dinner and after dinner we decided to walk around for a bit. We ended up in a bookstore. Eventually I found my way to..... albums being sold. Not used, new! I dug through those like I did as a kid/young adult when there were record stores everywhere. I found a Robert Plant album "Carry fire" that I didn't have and excitedly took it to the cashier to pay out. $29.
Seems like alot but when you consider inflation for the last 20 to 30 years it makes sense. I took it home, carefully took off the plastic, and took them out one at a time and listened to them on my record player while I looked over the album cover and read all the notes inside. Loved it!!! Oh and the album was gold in color instead of black which was really cool.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarathustra wrote:
Again, Cag, if that were the case, there's no reason why it wouldn't affect all genres of music. And your examples might be a bit too personal. While I can name all the members of my favorite bands, I don't know the bassist or drummer of Aerosmith . . . and yet I know their songs. Being able to know all the members isn't what made them big. Besides, we have Wikipedia today, and social media, which puts info and news about music out there in much more detail that we could have dreamed of in our youth.


Well, I did say it was my personal theory. But if you look at the other genres, they tend to be just the name of the main artist. Country? Check for the majority of the big artists. Jazz, yep. Rap? Kinda. But it does seem like the more you know about the artists, and feel a kinship to them, the more likely you are to embrace them. That's why the boy bands craft everyone's image so specifically.

And for that matter, what is Rock anyway? As a genre, it really is all over the place. Metal seems to be thriving these days. Is that not an aspect of Rock? You listen to punk from the 70s and it seems like quaint little pop songs. Everybody used to be afraid of Snoop, and now he is beloved. Everything shifts. I knew it was inevitable, but I'm feeling out of step at 50 to a lot of popular music. I didn't even realize that Mumford and Sons was middle of the road until the second album came out. In the 80s, the equivalent of Mumford and Sons would be on VH-1, which also felt to me like the old folks who used to rock channel, but now like things easier to listen to. Punk has kinda evolved into Green Day pop to Screamo, and most of it is not a joy to my ears. I think we all tend to get stuck in a decade. I'm thankful the 80s is the decade I got stuck in, and it sucks feeling like I am out of touch. I have hated the radio since the 80s, and really wish there was some new way of experiencing music other than just YouTubing everyone.
And when asking the young'uns here at work how often they go to Wikipedia and research the band, the answer was resoundingly "pretty much never."
But yeah, when googling "guitar gods of the 2000s and on," it's pretty depressing.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cagliostro wrote:
Well, I did say it was my personal theory. But if you look at the other genres, they tend to be just the name of the main artist. Country? Check for the majority of the big artists. Jazz, yep. Rap? Kinda. But it does seem like the more you know about the artists, and feel a kinship to them, the more likely you are to embrace them. That's why the boy bands craft everyone's image so specifically.
There are country bands: Dixie Chicks, Zac Brown Band, Florida Georgia Line, Rascal Flatts, Lady Antebellum, etc. And rock has had plenty of solo stars: Rod Stewart, Elton John, Eddie Money, Peter Frampton, Jimi Hendrix, etc. I'm not sure this has anything to do with the decline of rock. It would only explain the decline of rock bands. Where are all the solo rock stars, if this theory is true? Why can't they survive like solo country stars, if people only want solo acts?

Cagliostro wrote:
Metal seems to be thriving these days.
Thriving? In what way? Are they on the radio? I can't name a single one. And I *like* rock.

Cagliostro wrote:
And when asking the young'uns here at work how often they go to Wikipedia and research the band, the answer was resoundingly "pretty much never."


Well, the point was that the information is out there if they wanted it. It's literally at their fingertips. So the absence of such information can't explain why rock is dying. [I look up bands all the time on Wikipedia.]

We don't even have to think about the young'uns. I'm still alive. You're still alive. Eddie Vedder is still alive. We still like rock. I'd still buy CDs. In fact, I have more money now to do so than when I was a teen. I won't stop listening to music until I die. And that's probably true for most of the people out there. So if we all want to hear some great rock bands, why don't we??? It's baffling!

Maybe there just aren't any good ones. As soon as I hear the whiny, sensitive singing of most new rock bands on the radio, I can't change the dial fast enough. God, I'm sick of this new style of singing. I wish I could define it. I'll look for some examples and post some links. Does anyone else know what I mean? Where are the BALLS in new rock???

Maybe it's feminism, wokism, the pussification of male society finally trickling down to rock. Rap, hip-hop, and country are still unapologetically masculine. I NEVER used to listen to country. But in the last year I moved to Nashville, fell in love with a girl who listens to Eric Church and all the rest. She likes a guy who drives a truck (I do), knows how to shoot a gun (check), and pees standing up (check). Laughing So I've been listening to a lot of country. And you know what? It's not that bad. I probably would never spend a penny on it, but it's growing on me. The point is, that I've heard enough to know that country men act and sing like men. They have deep voices. They sing about knockin' boots (that's country for fuckin'!). They sing--or should I say, "sang"--about drinkin' and fightin' and trucks and muddin' and motor boatin' and shit like that. Hell yeah. Yee haw. Put another drank in my hand! It's party music, and people eat that shit up down here.

They don't sing about global warming, corporate excess, social issues, dystopian futures, or shit that depresses the hell out of everyone.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And now you have proven my point that this is old person grousing. "Rock isn't the music it was in my day. Cock Rock is dead!"
Tastes in music change throughout the decades, and we tend to get stuck in the music of our youth. I myself loved the variety of the 80s, and I still get a nostalgic reaction hearing that keyboard part of Jump that all your friends could play in the 80s. But we've got at least 3 discussions going here, and it is really starting to feel like an annoying Tank discussion, but here goes.
1. "Rock is dying because the gods of rock are dying." I agree, especially because the idolization of individuals within rock is dying off. My point about nobody replacing these gods of rock because tastes are so fleeting these days I think stands, and was one of the points you were confusing with the overall "rock is dying" theory of yours. I propose that we used to have information in front of us, and that most people don't want to research a band these days. We don't matter anymore, even though we can buy as many albums as we want. I bought more albums when I was young because I was more motivated to do so. Now I tend to listen to a lot of the same stuff and bands that I did in my youth. And I think most people over 40 do this, and record companies know this. I AM NOT JUST TALKING ABOUT YOU AND ME, because we cannot support rock music by ourselves. That Jack White is the nearest equivalent these days to a rock god depresses me.
2. "Rock is dying because the music sucks because the pussification of male society." I have to laugh at this shit. Look at the list you had in the first post of who you listed as rock legends. To quote Denis Leary, "Your Honor, between him (Dan Fogelberg) and James Taylor, I didn't get a blow job 'till I was twenty-seven years old." I can't think of a masculine lyric throughout all of Simon & Garfunkel's highly poetic songs. Pink Floyd? Waters wrote a whole album whining about his daddy dying in the big war, and how awful it is to be a person with feelings. And it is probably their biggest album. And the Final Cut? Talk about stuff that depresses the hell out of everyone. Talking politics? In the 60s, if you didn't have something to say, you were considered lame. In the 70s, a lot of these rock gods were into glam, and didn't look very masculine. I found a lot of the cock rock of the 80s (not to mention the male posturing of rap) pretty insipid in the day. Now I don't know Eric Church, and I'm not talking about all country these days, as there is some good stuff out there here and there, but there is a lot of pandering as well spelled out in this video. This is mostly what I hear in these tunes that I hear on Top 40 Country.
3. "Rock music is dying because rock has no balls." I'd argue against this one. Every once in a while, I start feeling like there is no good new music, and challenge myself to find a new band that I like. But going out on YouTube usually is so uneven, you can get sucked up in the choices. And you never know if you are getting their best or their dumbest song. I used to get CMJ back in 90s and 2000s, which was a really good way of finding new music, but when it moved completely online, I stopped. Their CD they sent of new music was often amazing, and the magazine sucked. When I started getting into Rock Band, I found that to be a great way of experiencing new music while enjoying the old. And I realized that the current climate of music wasn't total crap, and really started getting into several bands as a result. Now I go to the library and make choices based on album cover, which often doesn't work out, but occasionally does. There really is music out there for everyone, as we have SOOOOOOOOO much more choices than we ever did in the past. It is just a matter of finding what you like. As for music with balls, there are several bands out there that indeed do rock. Strangely enough, the bands that I feel rock the hardest and do it for me are lead by ladies, but that is my personal tastes. My friend plays in a cover band, and they pretty much only play party music, and there are quite a few new songs that really get the crowd jumping.
I have a million other points to make, but uh....I'm exhausted.
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StevieG
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting discussion. I will have to come back to this to share my opinions. I feel I am a product of being stuck in an era. I have also felt that it is harder to find authentic music these days (as in, since the mid 2000s). However, is that because I'm older and not as invested? (to be continued...)
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