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Gene Editing and Ethics
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Vraith
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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2015 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fist and Faith wrote:
Do we now know that intelligence is only a very small number of genes, and, therefore, something we can engineer?


No, we don't know that.
The largest analysis I've heard of looked at IQ and Ed. Achievement of about 100,000 people. All they could say is if you were a person with two copies of three variant genes, on average you'd have and IQ less than 2 points higher than a person with none of the variants. Even then, the vast majority of the peeps were STILL in the center range. And it was still only a probability.
It seems that May is closer to correct. IQ is related to many, many genes with small effects. And that doesn't include the epigenetic.

And many of the co-authors [it had, like, 50 authors or somesuch] said it was very likely that the genes were also involved in other functions...and we have no idea what those other functions might be.

One of the reasons I keep saying, tech-enhancement/add-ons is the way to go.

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the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2015 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vraith wrote:
One of the reasons I keep saying, tech-enhancement/add-ons is the way to go.
I'm thinking the same way.

Also, kudos to wf for using the word "cark"! Very Happy
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not plugging anything into my brain. Very Happy

--A
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well - not unless it can be rolled up into a jolly and 'plugged in' via a good long time on the same Laughing .
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Avatar wrote:
I'm not plugging anything into my brain. Very Happy

--A


I would, in a heartbeat. Adding a USB slot directly connected to my brain would be amazing--storing hundreds of GB of data with instant, complete recall and the possibility of having other useful tools such a scientific calculator for speed and accuracy of calculation is so useful that we should aim for that goal as quickly as possible.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
Avatar wrote:
I'm not plugging anything into my brain. Very Happy

--A


I would, in a heartbeat. Adding a USB slot directly connected to my brain would be amazing--storing hundreds of GB of data with instant, complete recall and the possibility of having other useful tools such a scientific calculator for speed and accuracy of calculation is so useful that we should aim for that goal as quickly as possible.


I'm not sure if I would or not...until it also included a brain-assisting processor to UNDERSTAND all that data. The information would be convenient...the comprehension revolutionary.
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Sig-man, Libtard, Stupid piece of shit. change your text color to brown. Mr. Reliable, bullshit-slinging liarFucker-user.

the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
Avatar wrote:
I'm not plugging anything into my brain. Very Happy


I would, in a heartbeat. Adding a USB slot directly connected to my brain would be amazing--storing hundreds of GB of data with instant, complete recall and the possibility of having other useful tools such a scientific calculator for speed and accuracy of calculation is so useful that we should aim for that goal as quickly as possible.


To what extent would you be able to maintain your personality? Don't you run the risk of simply being a walking wikipedia then?

--A
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Avatar wrote:

To what extent would you be able to maintain your personality? Don't you run the risk of simply being a walking wikipedia then?

--A


I don't see that there would be any risk in becoming something other than I already am. Even if there were some risk then that is a risk I am willing to take.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
Avatar wrote:

To what extent would you be able to maintain your personality? Don't you run the risk of simply being a walking wikipedia then?

--A


I don't see that there would be any risk in becoming something other than I already am. Even if there were some risk then that is a risk I am willing to take.
I don't see that danger, either. All that extra information might not even be more noticeable than the information we already have in our brains. I don't feel song lyrics in my memory now. I just know a song when I think about it. Probably the same with an artificial memory storage system that gives me access to ALL song lyrics.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fist and Faith wrote:
Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
Avatar wrote:

To what extent would you be able to maintain your personality? Don't you run the risk of simply being a walking wikipedia then?

--A


I don't see that there would be any risk in becoming something other than I already am. Even if there were some risk then that is a risk I am willing to take.
I don't see that danger, either. All that extra information might not even be more noticeable than the information we already have in our brains

Probably true...unless they've also digitized and send impulses so you don't just "watch" the porn you have on your drive, you "remember" being/doing it...[and...would that be cheating on your spouse, or not???]

But I still just see a convenience in having all that data on-demand, maybe an increase in efficiency/less time wasted...but maybe not as much time as you think...your brain still has to "read" the data/use it...and perhaps useful in some emergency situations [shit, I'm lost! DAMN, forgot to install the MAPS! Which plants can I eat?].

But without the addition of actually making you smarter, understand more and understand it faster...it's a "meh."
I've used something like this analogy before, but:
Lots of peeps I know or have known have more Shakespeare memorized than I do. And a lot of peeps I know understand Shakespeare at a deeper level than I do.
The two groups have one...or maybe 2...common members. Most of the memorizers could never become scholars. The scholars probably COULD memorize---but it isn't useful for most things, is unlikely to improve comprehension, so they don't.


Or, to quote,
Quote:

Otto: [superior smile] Apes don't read philosophy.
Wanda: Yes they do, Otto, they just don't understand it!


I sure don't want to be that ape...even a chrome/cyber one, with all of human knowledge on a thumb drive [which could be your actual thumb, if you wanted, for pun purposes...even better, attached after the distal phalanx so it was always at your finger tips...or in the mouth so it was right on the tip of your tongue...]

[[Not that I don't already bear some Otto/ape resemblances]]

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Sig-man, Libtard, Stupid piece of shit. change your text color to brown. Mr. Reliable, bullshit-slinging liarFucker-user.

the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

+JMJ+

CRISPR gene technology poses new moral questions [In-Depth, Interview]

Quote:

(Credit: Pixabay)


Editor's Note: Françoise Baylis is University Research Professor at Dalhousie University. She is a member of the Order of Canada and the Order of Nova Scotia, as well as a fellow of the Royal Society of Canada and of the Canadian Academy of Health Sciences. Baylis was one of the organizers of, and a key participant in, the 2015 International Summit on Human Gene Editing. She is a member of the WHO expert advisory committee on Developing global standards for governance and oversight of Human Genome editing. She is the author of Altered Inheritance: CRISPR and the Ethics of Human Genome Editing. She spoke to Charles Camosy.]

[...]

Camosy: Knocking out or editing genes that cause disease in human beings is one thing -- but, as you point out, this raises important ethical questions. Like what counts as a disease at all, who gets to decide what counts as a disease, and what understanding of the good is used in making such decisions. There is also an important question about whether this technology is likely to exacerbate the radical inequality we already have. Can you say more about these concerns?

Baylis: Not only can human genome editing be done in two different kinds of cells, it can also be used for two different purposes -- health-related (therapeutic) purposes and non-health-related (enhancement) purposes. There is, for example, the hope of using human genome editing to treat blood disorders, lung diseases, muscle wasting disorders, cancers, and so on. Beyond this, some hope to use genome editing to make cosmetic changes, to improve cognitive abilities or to promote athletic prowess. For many, non-health-related interventions are ethically controversial.



Françoise Baylis. (Credit: Courtesy to Crux)


An important worry with heritable human genome editing (where genetic changes are made to subsequent generations) is the ever-widening gap between the haves and the have nots. It is widely assumed that the average person will not be able to afford this technology. Meanwhile, wealthy and powerful elites will be able to use this technology to inscribe their privilege in their DNA.

[...]

Metaphorically speaking the human genome belongs to all of us. In my view, we should all have a say as to whether it should be modified and, if so, to what end. In support of this goal, many of us have called for a moratorium to provide time for careful consideration of the ethical issues. Others object to this idea and, most especially, they object to the m-word.

But inserting desired genes -- sometimes called genetic enhancement -- is something else, right? How likely is that to come about in the near-to-medium term? What different kinds of ethical issues does this raise?

In my own work, I write about health-related and non-health-related interventions. I try to avoid the common rhetoric about therapy and enhancement where it is often assumed that therapy is good, and enhancement is bad. I, along with many others, believe that there is no robust moral demarcation line between therapy and enhancement.

Imagine a future 'wildly hypothetical' (possibly improbable) world in which it is possible to increase a person's height by making a few genetic tweaks. Now imagine a young American boy whose estimated adult height is about 5'2". His parents are worried that he will experience significant discrimination. They want to use genome editing technology to try to increase his height to the average height for American males, which is close to 5'10".

Should the parents be able to modify their son's genome in an effort to protect him from the harms of discrimination? Should the answer to this question depend upon the cause of the short stature? More specifically, should access to future genome editing depend upon whether the boy will be short because of a genetic condition that is widely recognized as a genetic illness or because his parents are short and so he is expected to be "naturally" short? From a different perspective, what if the parents want their child, who is a skilled junior basketball player, to join the Olympic team and for this reason they want to increase their child's height to 7' not 5'10". Should it matter if the desired genetic modification is to gain a competitive advantage as compared with promoting health and well-being?

[...]

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In a sense, the ethics of this are moot...the simple point is that it's going to happen.

And wouldn't it be a net good to edit out genes for degenerative conditions, fatal diseases etc?

Of course, the real problem is what else we might be affecting by interfering with those genes. But we'll figure it out with a few generations. Wink

--A
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