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Wosbald
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

+JMJ+

Nigerian Christians divided by conference on witchcraft [In-Depth]

Quote:

Participants at the witchcraft conference at the University of Nigeria, Nsukka, in November 2019 (Patrick Egwu)


Enugu, Nigeria -- Last November an international conference on witchcraft divided Nigerians across religious lines. The B.I.C Ijomah Centre for Policy Studies and Research at the University of Nigeria, Nsukka -- Nigeria's first public institution -- organized the conference, the first in the country that aimed to demystify the concept of witchcraft that has been shrouded in secrecies and mysteries for decades in Nigeria, the West African region and all around the world.

"All cultures do not share a consistent pattern of witchcraft practice and beliefs," Egodi Uchendu, director of the center, said. "In Nigeria, for instance, the practice of witchcraft often intercepts with other concepts like magic, sorcery, esotericism, diabolism and even religion. From an interdisciplinary point of view, this conference seeks to find answers to pertinent questions such as: What is witchcraft? What factors influence witchcraft labeling in various communities? How does the practice of witchcraft affect society?"

Greeted with protests

Immediately after the announcement of the conference was made public, a group of Christian associations, affiliated organizations and some students, including the Christian Association of Nigeria, protested against the conference and called for its cancellation. For instance, the Pentecostal Fellowship of Nigeria declared a "prayer of warfare" against the conference which they said was "sponsoring evil" and did not "give God glory," according to The Cable.

However, other Christian groups differed in opinion and support of the conference, which they said would add knowledge and create awareness on the mysteries of witchcraft.

During the conference, a Catholic priest, Fr. Innocent Enweh from the department of religious studies at the university, said the opening prayers and asked for God's intercession and blessings on the success of the event.

In reacting to the debates and controversies generated by the conference, Bishop Matthew Hassan Kukah of the Diocese of Sokoto, said witchcraft exists and made reference to Jesus' encounter with demonic spirits, as reported by Crux.

"Church pastors discuss witchcraft regularly and preach against it all the time, drawing from their experiences during their training and in their ministries," Uchendu, a professor of history and international studies at the university, said in response to the protests about the conference. "I am sure the information from this conference and the research findings would assist them in their work for the gospel."

Uchendu continued: "Some persons erroneously concluded that only witches can discuss witchcraft. We are not witches. We are professors and scholars who are intrigued by this phenomenon of witchcraft."

"I don't see anything wrong with this event," Enweh told NCR. "People are just being ignorant about an academic event that wants to promote knowledge and help people better understand the concept of witchcraft."

Despite the protests, more than 1,000 students, scholars and researchers attended the conference. Scholars and researchers from the fields of psychology, philosophy, humanities and anthropology attended, presented papers and shared thoughts on the concept of witchcraft and sorcery, and the mysteries behind them.

Uchendu said the conference was all about "provoking intellectual reflections that guide the shaping of thoughts and the development of a pro-positive developmental mindset in Nigeria and Africa."



A poster for the conference (Courtesy of B.I.C Ijomah Centre for Policy Studies and Research)


[...]

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the problem...if you believe in religion you almost must believe in witchcraft, a belief which has (and still does) cost countless people their lives in Africa.

--A
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 2:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Witchcraft Reply with quote

I find it odd that no one yet has mentioned Thomas Covenant. His name even begins with 'Coven' - though more likely to be the townsfolk,
rather than the gentle folk of Donaldson's 'Land', who try very hard to use their magic to do some good in the world.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

+JMJ+

Avatar wrote:
That's the problem...if you believe in religion you almost must believe in witchcraft ...


Isn't that kinda like sayin' that if you believe in science, you almost must believe in phlogiston?
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wosbald wrote:
+JMJ+

Avatar wrote:
That's the problem...if you believe in religion you almost must believe in witchcraft ...


Isn't that kinda like sayin' that if you believe in science, you almost must believe in phlogiston?

... and that the moon is made of coal, or for that matter, Brunost cheese.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wosbald wrote:
+JMJ+

Avatar wrote:
That's the problem...if you believe in religion you almost must believe in witchcraft ...


Isn't that kinda like sayin' that if you believe in science, you almost must believe in phlogiston?


I don't think so. Phlogiston was a theory which was subsequently disproved. That's sorta the whole point of science.

However, the fundamental underpinning of both witchcraft and religion, a supernatural world populated by supernatural entities, are the same. Certainly the bible refers to witchcraft, and it was part of accepted Christian belief for centuries...just look at the Malleus Maleficarum...

Has the church ever come out and said that there was no such thing or that it was disproven etc?

Certainly African Christianity takes it seriously, and no wonder...if they must believe in God and angels and miracles, then they must believe in demons and spells.

To this day accusations of witchcraft in Africa are frequently a death sentence by "vigilante" justice.

--A
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

+JMJ+

Avatar wrote:
Wosbald wrote:
Avatar wrote:
That's the problem...if you believe in religion you almost must believe in witchcraft ...


Isn't that kinda like sayin' that if you believe in science, you almost must believe in phlogiston?


I don't think so. Phlogiston was a theory which was subsequently disproved. That's sorta the whole point of science.

[...]


Phlogiston was found to be inadequate to the facts.

Certain elements or assumptions characteristic of 'witchcraft' -- whatever those elements may be (the identification of which seems to be the whole point of the conference) -- are inadequate to the facts as held by orthodox Christianity.

At first blush, the comparison doesn't seem all-that-unapt.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Avatar wrote:
Certainly African Christianity takes it seriously, and no wonder...if they must believe in God and angels and miracles, then they must believe in demons and spells.

--A

All the Christian gospels have a dark side.
Personally I have no use for witchcraft per se though the witches hat certainly fascinates me. As if its roots might stem from the pyramids of ancient Egypt.
It makes for a wonderful emblem and warm source of energy when used in Sahasrara meditation.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wosbald wrote:
+JMJ+

Avatar wrote:
Wosbald wrote:
Avatar wrote:
That's the problem...if you believe in religion you almost must believe in witchcraft ...


Isn't that kinda like sayin' that if you believe in science, you almost must believe in phlogiston?


I don't think so. Phlogiston was a theory which was subsequently disproved. That's sorta the whole point of science.

[...]


Phlogiston was found to be inadequate to the facts.

Certain elements or assumptions characteristic of 'witchcraft' -- whatever those elements may be (the identification of which seems to be the whole point of the conference) -- are inadequate to the facts as held by orthodox Christianity.

At first blush, the comparison doesn't seem all-that-unapt.


Ha, I challenge you to explain to a congregation of African Christians that they must believe in one invisible being that can affect their world and lives, and not in a different invisible being that can affect their worlds and lives. Very Happy

--A
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

+JMJ+

Avatar wrote:
Wosbald wrote:
Avatar wrote:
Wosbald wrote:
Avatar wrote:
That's the problem...if you believe in religion you almost must believe in witchcraft ...


Isn't that kinda like sayin' that if you believe in science, you almost must believe in phlogiston?


I don't think so. Phlogiston was a theory which was subsequently disproved. That's sorta the whole point of science.

[...]


Phlogiston was found to be inadequate to the facts.

Certain elements or assumptions characteristic of 'witchcraft' -- whatever those elements may be (the identification of which seems to be the whole point of the conference) -- are inadequate to the facts as held by orthodox Christianity.

At first blush, the comparison doesn't seem all-that-unapt.


Ha, I challenge you to explain to a congregation of African Christians that they must believe in one invisible being that can affect their world and lives, and not in a different invisible being that can affect their worlds and lives. Very Happy

--A


FTR, I didn't mean to say that belief in non-divine spiritual beings (angels & devils) would be inimical to orthodox Christianity, but rather, 'certain elements' of witchcraft (whatever those might prove to be).
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wosbald wrote:
+JMJ+

FTR, I didn't mean to say that belief in non-divine spiritual beings (angels & devils) would be inimical to orthodox Christianity, but rather, 'certain elements' of witchcraft (whatever those might prove to be).


'Swings and Roundabouts', as we say here in Cov. Wink
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wos, you are saying certain elements or assumptions characteristic of 'witchcraft' are inadequate to the facts as held by orthodox Christianity, but nobody knows what those elements or assumptions are? How can the adequacy of unidentified elements be determined?
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

+JMJ+

Fist and Faith wrote:
Wos, you are saying certain elements or assumptions characteristic of 'witchcraft' are inadequate to the facts as held by orthodox Christianity, but nobody knows what those elements or assumptions are? How can the adequacy of unidentified elements be determined?


Determining those 'elements', at least with ever-greater academic precision, seemed to be the whole point of the conference referenced in the article I posted above (and which [witch?] I accidentally just deleted and then, had to restore Laughing ).
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Avatar wrote:
Ha, I challenge you to explain to a congregation of African Christians that they must believe in one invisible being that can affect their world and lives, and not in a different invisible being that can affect their worlds and lives. Very Happy

--A

After Linden Avery possess' Covenant (from The One Tree, chapter 11), he turns into Marid with snakes for arms. Confronted by such an evil vision Linden is borne away on winds of darkness.
Later, when she awakens:
Quote:
The cabin appeared to lie canted around her, like a house that had been broken from its foundations by some upheaval.
which is so reminiscent of Dorothy's house on landing in Oz.

In her bitterness Linden leaves her cabin and goes up on deck. When she steps over the storm-sill,
Quote:
she was nearly blown from her feet. A predatory wind struck at the decks, clawed at the sails. As she struggled to a handhold, spray lashed her face, springing like sharp rain from the passion of a dark and viscid Sea.
So like yet another dreamplace - and is it any wonder skestlike sea-snakes are on their way.

What a fantastic passage from the 2nd Chronicles. However, I don't believe an African congregation would get it.
As a matter of fact, I'd likely end up tarred and feathered! Razz

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wosbald wrote:
Fist and Faith wrote:
Wos, you are saying certain elements or assumptions characteristic of 'witchcraft' are inadequate to the facts as held by orthodox Christianity, but nobody knows what those elements or assumptions are? How can the adequacy of unidentified elements be determined?


Determining those 'elements', at least with ever-greater academic precision, seemed to be the whole point of the conference referenced in the article I posted above (and which [witch?] I accidentally just deleted and then, had to restore Laughing ).


Firstly, thank you Fist. Very Happy

Secondly, if this is the case, then probably a laudable attempt by the church to try and ameliorate the very practices and beliefs I mentioned above. Tough to do, because those same practices were already entrenched in pre-Christian society here.

--A
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Avatar wrote:
Firstly, thank you Fist. Very Happy
I live to serve. *bows*
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