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Questions about the Bloodguard
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am    Post subject: Questions about the Bloodguard Reply with quote

I've often wondered what meals for the Bloodguard would consist of. Did they even eat? Anyone that can live an indefinite amount of years would seem to me the kind of person that maybe did not even have to eat.
And what did Bannor do during all the years that TC was absent from the Land?
How was Bannor selected for TC? (ritual fighting?)

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Vow was fueled by Earthpower however, I believe that the Haruchai also had an innate strength of body and character that enabled them to succeed (or eventually fail?) at their vow. Was Earthpower asleep in the 2nd Chronicles? or possibly warped? Maybe - but the Haruchai in the 2nd Chron had to have eaten something. I'll have to look that one up! I recall the Haruchai making their vow to TC in the 2nd Chron. Doesn't Bannor himself say to TC in TWL, "But I say to you, Redeem my people. Their plight is an abomination. And they will serve you well." Brinn says to TC, "...Cail, Stell, Ceer, Harn, Hergrom, and myself will share your quest, to ward you and your companions." TC the agonizes about how he is responsible for them. Not "Bloodguard" anymore but self sworn to TC's quest for the One Tree.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, I don't remember them taking a vow either..... & if they had wouldn't the Lurker of been drawn to the power of that vow as it was to the Bloodguard's Vow in TIW?

But even still, those are interesting questions as to whether or not they slept & what they ate. They were issued rooms on the Starfare Gem but I don't remember any mention of them using the rooms until after they had left Covenant's service. And as Prince of Amber pointed out it was said that Mistweave couldn't match Cail's wakefulness. So ..... where did they get the stamina from?

Wasn't it said that their blood was more powerful & sustained the Sunbane better than the blood from the people of the land? Could this power of come from themselves? From their determination to uphold Bannor's promise to Covenant? Even still......little to no sleep indefinately is a lot to buy. Rolling Eyes

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am    Post subject: Bloodgaurd Questions Reply with quote

But in the second chrons they weren't bloodgaurd! They were almost the same, but hadn't sworn any Vow. I got the impression that they could eat "normal" food, but it wasn't really clear whether they ever slept or not. Regarding the food, also, it doesn't seem as though there's Alaintha in the mountains where they live, so they must eat something else.

Quote:
"Five came from the Westron Mountains in the name of their legends, seeking the Council. But Offin did not flinch his oppertunity. He took the five captive.

"Whith the passage of time five more came in search of their lost kindred. These also were captured. They were hardy and feral, but the power of the Banefire mastered them. And later more Haruchai came seeking the lost. Five by five, then by ten, then by the score they came, with long lapses between. Generation after generation they were captured....As their numbers increased so grew the Banefire. Thus not one of them prevailed or escaped."

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

there were no Bloodguard in the second chronicles
they were "just" Haruchai, not bound by their eytreme vow, so I suppose, they ate as well as the others, though maybe less
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am    Post subject: Bloodguard and Questions Reply with quote

And excellent points they are, Prince! Where did the Bloodguard get sustenance in the 2nd Chronicles? They could have been forced to eat "regular" food while imprisioned, or they could have even been sustained through the Clave's power. Even if that's the case, where did they find treasure berries while on the Giant's ship? I don't know if any vow was involved since it had been broken by the time TPTP rolled around. Weren't the bloodguard sent in groups to Revelstone to find out what the heck this sunbane thing was? Then they were imprisioned each time?
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it is often said that the bloodguards vow was fuelled by Earthpower, so I was interested to see the reference to them consuming treasure berries, thanks for that Coercri, I've only read Gilden Fire once since my brother borrowed/pinched my copy years ago. Does anyone have an idea about the Haruchai in the second chronicles - did they sleep? were they equal to the bloodguard, if I remember didn't Mistweave try to protect Linden in the same way as Cail was protecting TC but couldn't go without rest. Where did the Haruchai in the 2nd Chron's get the power from? We know that the Earthpower had retreated but the berries could still grow, I don't remember them swearing a vow???
Sorry if this is a bit muddled but I hope you get my point.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am    Post subject: Answers Reply with quote

Thanks, Coercri! Great answers to all of my questions. Take a handful from petty cash. Smile
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good question, until I read Gilden-Fire I just assumed that they didn't eat just as they didn't sleep but looking back to my copy, on pg 32 it states:

Quote:
They bore no weapons. And, in part because of their Vow, they needed little food: as long as the hardy aliantha grew and ripened throughout the Land in all seasons, the Bloodguard required no other sustenance.


I couldn't find anything that mentioned what they did in their off-time
but in describing the hall reserved for the Bloodguard it said:

Quote:
They needed only an open space with a punishing floor and freedom from observation.


In my imagination they spend all of their free time honing their combative skills.....

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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2002 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Absolutely correct!! The vow of the blood guard was terminated in TIW when Amok lead Elena to the 7th Ward ..
Quote:
You people came to the Land, and you swore a Vow to protect Kevin. You swore to preserve him or at least give your lives for him and the Lords and Revelstone until Time itself came to an end, if not forever, or why are you bereft even of the simple decency of sleep? But that poor desperate man outsmarted you. He actively saved you when he destroyed himself and everything else he merely believed in. So there you were, hanging from your Vow in empty space as if all the reasons in the world had suddenly disappeared.

And then Then you get a second chance to do your Vow right when the new Lords come along. But what happens ? Amok turns up our of nowhere and there's a war on against Fould himself - and what do you do? You let this creation of Kevin's lead the High Lord away as if it were safe and she didnt have anything better to do....

... Why are you risking her for the sake of somthing created by one man who has ever succeeded in casting doubt on your incorruptability. ...


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Quote:
...Ur-Lord we have seen the Desecration. We have seen the fruit of perilous lore. Lore is not knowledge. Lore is a weapon ... The Blood guard have no use for weapons. Any knife may turn and wound the hand which wields it. Yet the Lords desire Lore. They do work of value with it.


even so .. Bannor goes on .. to disclose the name of the 7th Ward .. The Power of Command .. TC realises he has erred in forcing the blood guard into a corner .. and reflects ..

Quote:
Covenant knew he had fundamentally altered the character of their service to the Lords. He had exacted that from them. ...


Bannor .. for maybe one of the first times .. describes himself one of the Haruchai .. no longer the Blood guard in TPTP ..

Quote:
I no longer serve the Lords ... I have put aside such things. My proper place now is with the Raynhin and their Ramen, in the exile of the mountains.

he goes on to explain that what help he can give he will give but he will not accompany TC and Foamfollower to Ridjeck Thome ..

Quote:
I am saddened that so many centuries were required to teach us the limits of our worth. We went too far, in pride and folly. Mortal men should not give up wives and sleep and death for any service - lest the fact of failure become too abhorrent to be endured.


It wasn't till the bloodguard through Bannor and Morin were coerced into giving Elena the name of the 7th Ward .. and thereby broke their vow to Kevin .. his Lore .. the Land .. and to the Lords .. in particular as their disclosure lead to the imminent demise of Elena .. there came a realisation that their vow had been futile and had not served the Land .. or Kevin or the Lords as they had intended ..

a horrifying realisation for a people who had given of themselves entirely and sacrificed sleep and the companionship and experience of families .. more than 2000 years .. in good faith .. only to have found they were misguided ..

There is yet a lot of mystery surrounding the vow of the bloodguard .. when the vow was intact the blood guard lived indefinitely it seemed .. unless they were killed ofcourse .. once the vow was broken .. Bannor aged .. as in TPTP .. TC decribes Bannor as looking older .. silver haired .. and not much time had passed from TWL and TPTP .. so there seemed to be some kind of magic or power that preserved the Haruchai bound under the covenant or vow ..
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2002 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not sure how Bannor was selected for TC .. but he was appointed by the High Lord when he first arrived in Revelstone .. Bannor was a senior bloodguard .. I forget his position or title now ..
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2002 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was said that haruchai were a hardy people. And they would have had to have been, living in the Westron mountains. All mountain dwelling people have a certain type of toughness to begin with. Either that or they don't survive.
Plus, they had to have had some connection with the earth power right from the start, otherwise they would not have been able to have performed with the extremes that they were capable of. There were not even Lords who could say that they were alive for two thousand years, but Bannor could. Not one other single person could say that they had been around at the time of the ritual of descration. And some of those people had lore up the yin yang. They had connection with the earth power. But I say that the haruchai had the earth power, or the essence of earth power, in spades!
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2002 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
We have heard that the mission to the Giants of Seareach was betrayed to the lurker of the Sarangrave by Earthpower...And the vow of the Bloodguard was a thing of Earthpower. But we have sworn no life shaping Vow. The wild magic need not be used. The Graveler and the eh-Brand need not employ their lore. The lurker need not be aware of us.
So the Haruchai in the 2nd Chrons @least had no "detectable" Earthpower as stated by Brinn in TWL, but in TOT it is said that the Haruchai have tried 2 live up 2 the "promise" of the Vow 2 the best of their abilities. Perhaps in the 2nd Chrons they force themselves not 2 sleep-or, mayb as decendants of the Bloodguard they have an inate abilty 2 go 4 a long period, say a year or 2, w/out sleeping. I cannot find any reference from the beginning of the Quest in TWL through 200 pages of TOT that says the Haruchai drank, let alone ate, accept 4 Cail consumming voure after he was stung by the Courser.
I believe Coecri posted a quote about the "punishing floor" from Gilden Fire. And while I understand many of the reasons 4 SRD cutting (or being cut by the editors) Gilden Fire from TIW the "punishing floor" and the ancient Haruchai feud btween the Ho-Aru and the Nimishi (b4 the Bond of the 2 clans) go a long way in xplaining establishing seniority among the Bloodguard and showing y the fight btween Brinn and the Kenaustin Ardenol is so important 2 the redemption of the Haruchai. Bannor may have won his seniority through age AND fighting, but fighting btween the Bloodguard is not talked about in LFB, but it is in Gilden Fire. Yes the Haruchai r a hardy lot in Gilden Fire it is said that the Westrons froze for about 3/4 of the year, the Haruchai raised mountian goats and scavenged everywhere 4 food--they went long periods of time b4 the Bond, or the Vow, w/out eating (the men that is). The reason 4 the Bond was sheer survival- the 2 clans almost killed each other over what little food there was and after the Bond it was resolved that the Haruchai must venture down to through Guards Gap 2 Throthguard 2 find food even if they must war 4 it. And there they met Kevin.


Last edited by danlo on Tue Jun 11, 2002 3:32 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2002 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe I didn't make myself clear when I said that they had to have had a connection to the earth power. It seems clear to me that not everyone has the connection needed to be able to use lore. I mean, if they did, each town would have had several gravelingases or hire-brands. There would have probably been more lords as well.
So it appears to me that the haruchai as a people have a connection with the earth power. I did not hear of any Haruchai who failed to become Bloodguard. If they made the choice to devote themselves to that destiny, then they came down to Revelstone to replace a fallen comrade. Sure, they most likely had a test or two to perform before their council, but again, I don't remember hearing of a failure. Except when one died. They said that he failed.
Maybe the Haruchai who had come down to help TC had not taken "the vow", but they still had the earth power, or some part of it running within their veins. It might just be that they had not opened that particular 'door' of power within themselves. But that does not mean that it was not there.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2002 3:22 am    Post subject: I never said they didn't have earthpower... Reply with quote

All I said was as far as the luker was concerned they had no "detectable" earthpower...Does any1 remember if they had 2 stand on the rocks 2 avoid the sunbane, or not, I can't remember--will have 2 look it up. In Gilden Fire on the "punishing floor' there is no defeat, simply an acknowledgement of better skills. It was the vow, however, that enabled them 2 live so long and not sleep. An "inate" ability could, possibly, stand 4 earthpower--in this case...
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2002 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, they didn't have to "ward" themselves against the sunbane ~ I had forgotten that......it does seem to imply a type of earthpower doesn't it? On a similar note....I believe that the Giants always took precaution against the sunbane but it would of been interesting to see if they could withstand it as well.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2002 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always had the imporession that the Haruchai are strongly connected to Earthpower, and that's why they are so sturdy and strong; maybe it is so beacuse their dwelling in the Westron Mountains is close to Earthroot? or are they by nature connected to it, just like the Elohim?
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2002 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

actually I also had the same impression

.. no doubt their oath/vow was sealed by earthpower under Lore .. but even so I always imagined the Haruchai were such a race that by their very nature they were connected to earthpower ..

and it may be the Westron Mt thing amy suggested .. sounds plausible Idea
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2002 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That was my thinking also - that being from the Westron Mountains, they were closer to Earthroot. Maybe it was in the water Laughing
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2002 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is another good question regarding the Bloodguard and Haruchai for everyone to consider. What are they going to be doing in the 3rd chrons? TC talked to them to swear themselves to Revelstone, so just where will that lead? To be the supreme guards of the keep, or possibly they will start to become the new lords, or?????
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