Kevin's Watch Forum Index
 HomeHome   MemberlistMemberlist   RegisterRegister   SearchSearch   ProfileProfile   FAQFAQ   StatisticsStatistics  SudokuSudoku   Phoogle MapPhoogle Map 
 AlbumAlbum StoresStores   StoresItems Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Is there a link between Zoroastrianism and TCTC?

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Kevin's Watch Forum Index -> The Close
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
The Dreaming
21st Century Schizoid Man

Male
Joined: 04 Oct 2004
Posts: 1921

Thanks: 1
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts

Location: Louisville KY
6657 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Free Lunch


PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 11:36 pm    Post subject: Is there a link between Zoroastrianism and TCTC? Reply with quote

I was reading up on ancient Zoroastrianism. This was the religion of the Persian Empire and was the first permanent monotheistic religion. It is also one of the parent religions of Christianity and Islam.

Anyway, it is the idea of creation that the Zoroastrians believe in that caught me. Ahura (the Wise Lord) created the entire world. He believed in the power of truth. (The Zoroastrians equate truth with goodness) However, he also created Ahriman (the Devil) and Ahriman chose the lie. Ahriman exists so that we may have choice, or free will.

Zoroastrianism was also among the first religions to have a concept of an eternal reward or punishment. (However, once in hell, redemption was possible). In the end, it was said by Zoroaster, that Ahura would conquer the lie and humanity would live in supreme happiness for the rest of eternity. (This was supposed to happen around 2600 ad)

It gets even more interesting. Here is a direct quote from one of my sources.

Quote:
This dualist view eventually became the orthodox position. Its development may have owed much to the Magi, a hereditary priestly caste, although their role is unclear. From them, however, the Greco Roman world learned much of what it knew of the religion. An important reform movement, however, arose within Zoroastrianism - the movement around Zurvan. The Zurvanites posited a supreme god, Zurvan (Infinite Time), who had sacrificed for 1,000 years in order to gain offspring. At the end of that time he experienced momentary doubt, and from that doubt arose Ahriman; at the same time, Ormazd came into being because of the efficacy of the sacrifices. At the end of 3,000 years Ahriman crossed the void that separated them and attacked Ormazd. The two made a pact to limit the struggle, and Ahriman fell back into the abyss, where he lay for 3,000 years.

During that period Ormazd created the material and spiritual world; in retaliation, Ahriman called into being six demons and an opposing material world. In the next 3,000 year period Ahriman attempted to corrupt the creation of Ormazd; he was successful but was trapped in the world of light. The final period of 3,000 years was ushered in by the birth of Zoroaster, who revealed this struggle to man; the prophet is to be followed by three saviors, appearing at intervals of 1,000 years. At the appearance of the last, a day of judgment will occur, the drink of immortality will be offered to those who have fought against Ahriman, and a new creation will be established.


This dualistic idea sounded very familiar to me, and only today did I realize that the relationship between Ahura and Ahriman sounds very much like the relationship between the Creator and Lord Foul.

I further discovered that the vast majority of modern Zoroastrians live in India, where Donaldson grew up. Do you suppose that the theology of the land is in any way influenced by this Theology?

Edit: Said Covenant and meant Creator
_________________


Last edited by The Dreaming on Wed Dec 15, 2004 9:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Phoogle Map
Avatar
Immanentizing The Eschaton


Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 55208

Thanks: 72
Thanked 151 Times in 148 Posts

Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
21403 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Pantheon Veteran


PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps, but these "similarities" are, as you say, also foundations of most modern religions, especially christainity, as well.

Although these parrallels can effectively be drawn, they can probably be drawn from a christian interpretation as well. Most religions are incestuous to some degree.

--Avatar
_________________
Don't believe everything you think.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Phoogle Map
The Dreaming
21st Century Schizoid Man

Male
Joined: 04 Oct 2004
Posts: 1921

Thanks: 1
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts

Location: Louisville KY
6657 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Free Lunch


PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was the Idea of evil created as well as good that caught me. The Christian story for the origin of Lucifer is a far cry from the origin of Ahriman. Evil was created because it had to exist for humanity to have free will.

It was the later bit about where Zoroastrianism went in it's later years that espacially caught my eye. Ahriman (evil) managed to corrupt the creation of Ormazd (the same being as Ahura and the Creator), however, to do so he was trapped in the world of light.

This and the fact that the modern Zoroastrians are all in India put it into my head.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Phoogle Map
Avatar
Immanentizing The Eschaton


Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 55208

Thanks: 72
Thanked 151 Times in 148 Posts

Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
21403 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Pantheon Veteran


PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IIRC, the origin of Lucifer in christianity was a relatively late addition to the overall story.

I certainly see your points of similarity to the Chronicles, and follow your reasoning. Whether or not the similarity was intentional is a different question.

Good to see you back, BTW. Wink

--Avatar
_________________
Don't believe everything you think.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Phoogle Map
Alynna Lis Eachann
Lazy Lord

FemaleRanyhyn
Joined: 20 Mar 2002
Posts: 3060

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

Location: Maryland, my Maryland
39 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great question for SRD's Gradual Interview, no? Perhaps you could submit it and report back?

I see the parallels here... the "3000 year" bit especially. It would be interesting to find out if Donaldson consciously or subconsciously inserted aspects of Zoroastrianism into TCTC.
_________________
"We probably could have saved ourselves, but we were too damned lazy to try very hard... and too damn cheap." - Kurt Vonnegut

"Now if you remember all great paintings have an element of tragedy to them. Uh, for instance if you remember from last week, the unicorn was stuck on the aircraft carrier and couldn't get off. That was very sad. " - Kids in the Hall
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Avatar
Immanentizing The Eschaton


Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 55208

Thanks: 72
Thanked 151 Times in 148 Posts

Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
21403 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Pantheon Veteran


PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alynna Lis Eachann wrote:
Great question for SRD's Gradual Interview, no? Perhaps you could submit it and report back?


Just what I was thinking. Smile

--A
_________________
Don't believe everything you think.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Phoogle Map
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Kevin's Watch Forum Index -> The Close All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by Earthpower © Kevin's Watch