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lurch
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 3:53 pm    Post subject: BLUE Reply with quote

...You have before you a person who has been blind since birth. Your task is to describe to the blind person the color Blue..( actually any color would do)..how do you get the blind person to understand " color" and that there is one called Blue?
....I would take a pan of cool water and lay the blind person's hand in it. Then say,,what you feel on your hand is the color blue( any body of cool water would do). or...??????.................................MEL
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would take him outside on a crisp autumn day, and tell him to take a deep breath. I would tell him that was blue.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would suppose tactile sensation would be the best means. I'm not sure how I'd go about describing the color; I'd probably use descriptive words that evoke the senses, such as cool, soft, etc. Of course, some blues are more intense than others, but I'd probably use the sky as an example.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

An interesting thought is that although you can't describe it to them and they can't really know it's nature this doesn't change the fact that blue exists.

I guess the person would have to have faith that the individuals describing blue to them were giving the best approximation that their senses could understand of the reality of blue!
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would start choking them and then say, "Do you feel that? You are turning blue."
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Creator and Sheol-- LOL

My plan for blue would be the same as lurch's though. Sunlight for yellow, fire for red, and moss for green.

Helen Keller anyone?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be very difficult to describe something that one can totally not relate to in any physical way...

Imagine how difficult it would be for a person that's been totally blind from birth to understand even the concept of color, much less sight as a whole. (Remember the whole Hile Troy thing? It's not a real example, but I imagine that's exactly how it would be for a blind person seeing for the first time.)

But yeah, the best way to describe blue would be things like coldness, calmness, and generally the other things people have said.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

7.5 * 10^14Hz, wavelength of about 400nm.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 2:27 pm    Post subject: wavelength Reply with quote

...aaa yes the wavelength approach. i pondered discussing the whole physics approach..photons at different energy levels..etc..but, um,,even us with eyesite mite have a difficult time perceiving what a photon is,,sometimes particle, sometimes energy,,We can see its effects tho..
..Then there is the ..Blue is the color of coming home to your sweetheart who greets you in the living room in a bath robe while you hear the backdoor slamming shut..that be blue...which mite lead to another understanding of blue as indicated by Sheol...MEL
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, the only USE that a blind person would have for colour would be to communicate with people that can see, right?
Like when someone might ask of a loved one "What colour hair does she have? What colour eyes?"
So in that case, I would think the only approach that makes sense is a simple memorization association for all the things that they'd like to know the color of.
Perhaps you could create a symbolic association... red is generally considered a passionate colour, and a blind person could learn to use colour based on mood association if they were creating artwork, based on the effect that colours have on people.
As far as describing blue goes, blue isn't even that physics description.... Blue is how that physics description appears to someone with regular eyesite, which the blind do not have.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would give the blind person a peppermint to suck, then take them to a walk-cooler, tell them to purse their lips as if about to drink through a straw and tell them to suck in the air quickly. That cool sensation is how I would describe "Blue" as a feeling.

Yellow, I would take flavorless carbonated water, squeeze a couple of lemons in it and have them drink it while the sun was full in their face.

Green would be the smell of fresh cut grass.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My associative answer is that blue is sharp pain. Not a cutting pain, but, say, a pinched nerve. I say this because this is the color I see in my head when I close my eyes (especially while half asleep). Not all the time, but... For instance, whenever I had migraines, I knew one was coming because everything would be tinged a bright orange color. Like a sepia photograph splashed with Tang.

I don't know how many of you guys are aware of this (and I've always thought it very relevant to fans of Covenant), but there's a neurological condition called synesthesia. The brain... blends sensory input. It can be as mild as color association to numbers or words or as strong as literally seeing music.

Here's a good site for anyone interested.
http://www.bluecatsandchartreusekittens.com/Blue_Cats_and_Chartreuse_Kittens_Rel.html#PUB

I think I've always had a mild form of it. For instance, when I was a kid, the numbers 1 through ten had distinct identities. Five was a wise, kind wizard. Nine was evil and self-serving. I don't remember the rest, but to this day, I still feel something (can't describe it) when doing math. Might have been worse if I could actually see pictures in my head. It takes a supreme effort of will to even form a picture of people I know well. I can't even hold a simple straight line without it turning all wobbly.

Facts, words, associations, meaning... all that is fine. I have an above average memory. But when I said blue is a certian frequency and wavelength, I wasn't being entirely facetious. Blue is fast and vibrant. Blue is a humming bird, a bullet. Blue is the sound of a bag of marbles emptied out over pavement. Blue is a strong wind... light blue if a cold one, turqoise if warm.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hahaha...nine is evil and self serving? Heheheh

My tarot brain absolutely marvels! Smile
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OOOOooooooh. I wanna see music! (without having to take LSD.)
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 12:02 am    Post subject: On seeing music... Reply with quote

...On seeing music..try this( no garuantees included)..Use head phones in a as quiet and dark environment as possible..Shut eyes, turn on music. The next step is abit tricky. The dark you are perceiving( while eyes are shut in a dark room lets say) is not really dark. In my case , i perceive a field of circular ( pupil related?) color patterns. Kinda like when a piece of foreign object gets on your eyeball. You can see the object floating on your lense, well smaller and even closer than that. When totally calm and relaxed, those patterns are somewhat still and uniform...aaammm,,perhaps, with music being piped in you may perceive "change" in the extremely near perception. Then again, maybe not. When attempting to perceive beyound the field of minute colored patterns ,,i can not discuss because I have yet to recall what I found there. I think its called ..sleep....btw..the above may be predicated on not having to do drugs in the future but by what was experienced in the past. I have no way of knowing Maybe I've stared at the Sun for too loong.......MEL
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChoChiyo wrote:
Green would be the smell of fresh cut grass.


Wow, I really like these Cho. All of them, but especially this one.

Sylvanus wrote:
...Might have been worse if I could actually see pictures in my head. It takes a supreme effort of will to even form a picture of people I know well. I can't even hold a simple straight line without it turning all wobbly...Facts, words, associations, meaning... all that is fine. I have an above average memory.


Damn, Syl, I'd really like to get into this. If you look (quite) a bit further down the page, there's a topic called "The Minds Eye" where I discuss this very thing. Turned out not to be a popular topic, but anyway...I have almost exactlythe same thing. Except for me, even an effort of will is not enough. I just don't "see" pictures in my head.

I posted a quote by Huxley there, where he mentions that he experiences it in a similar way that you do, by effort of will. For me, there is nothing. The whole concept intrigues me, and I'd like to hear your thoughts on it. In fact, I'll bump it for you.

Sylvanus wrote:
Blue is fast and vibrant. Blue is a humming bird, a bullet. Blue is the sound of a bag of marbles emptied out over pavement. Blue is a strong wind... light blue if a cold one, turqoise if warm.


Man, I like these too.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i 'see' music. i can't read notes or anything. i had a band (briefly) and the guitarist hated me because i would describe a song thus...

Red Brick is anger, frustration, boiling, hurt, faster,
lonely, desperate, alone, faster, tension, release.

he wanted the technical terms. from my description i can hear the song by the words i gave.

blue = miles davis or roy buchanon.
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