Kevin's Watch Forum Index
 HomeHome   MemberlistMemberlist   RegisterRegister   SearchSearch   ProfileProfile   FAQFAQ   StatisticsStatistics  SudokuSudoku   Phoogle MapPhoogle Map 
 AlbumAlbum StoresStores   StoresItems Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

LOTR Prequel Movie: Numenor

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Kevin's Watch Forum Index -> The Library -> J.R.R. Tolkien Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Zarathustra
Be True


Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 18051

Thanks: 42
Thanked 186 Times in 178 Posts


26763 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:14 am    Post subject: LOTR Prequel Movie: Numenor Reply with quote

For those who have read the Silmarillion, you know there is a vast untapped wealth of stories in Tolkien's universe for potential movies. But this one never occurred to me: a story about the Second Age, the Fall of Numenor, when Sauron was defeated and taken back to the island kingdom, and then slowly corrupted it . . . leading to the third age (when the LOTR takes place). It never occurred to me because there's scant information on this time. But actually, that could be its strong point in terms of adapting it to a movie. More room for creative liberties. Anyway, check it out. This is from Norwegian philologist, not some AICN fanboy.

The first link is the guy's reasons why this would make a fantastic, epic movie--a much more worthy prequel than the Hobbit. The next two links are his actual script ideas. Warning: it is rather lengthy.
But if you've got some time, they're worth the read.


http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/num-intro.htm

http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/numenor1.htm

http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/numenor1.htm
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tulizar
Watcher

Male
Joined: 17 Aug 2003
Posts: 839

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

Location: Swamps of Jersey
542 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 The One Forest


PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read the first link. I agree that there is just enough in those pages that could translate into an exciting movie--elves, corruption, Sauron, battles, wizards. Of course the filmmakers could potentially destroy things by inserting hobbits, dwarves and gollum to make some sort of connection with LOTR.

I haven't checked out the other two links yet. You're right, they are very lengthy!
_________________
Proverbs for Paranoids #3.

If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger Phoogle Map
Zarathustra
Be True


Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 18051

Thanks: 42
Thanked 186 Times in 178 Posts


26763 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, someone else read it! If I hadn't had a night job at the time, with lots of free hours at the computer, I'm not sure I would have ever made it through all of this either. This guy has put a LOT of work into it. I like his screenplay ideas.

I think he is right that the story itself would translate to the screen better than the Silmarillion. It is one story: Sauron being captured and then corrupting Numenor. The fall of man. Pretty weighty themes there. Also, it has enough of a connection to LOTR--Sauron, Elendil, Isildur, Elrond--to be at least vaguely recognizable by the movie going public. Not so much with the Silmarillion.

While I'd love to see the Hobbit, I just don't think there's enough there to make a full two hour movie (and now I hear they're thinking of making it into TWO movies!!).
_________________
Meaning is created internally by each individual in each specific life: any attempt at *meaning* which relies on some kind of external superstructure (God, Satan, the Creator, the Worm, whatever) for its substance misses the point (I mean the point of my story). -SRD

Remain faithful to the earth, my brothers, with the power of your virtue. Let your gift-giving love and your knowledge serve the meaning of the earth ... Do not let them fly away from earthly things and beat with their wings against eternal walls. Alas, there has always been so much virtue that has flown away. Lead back to the earth the virtue that flew away, as I do-back to the body, back to life, that it may give the earth a meaning, a human meaning. -Nietzsche
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
High Lord Tolkien
Excommunicated Member of THOOLAH

Male
Joined: 19 Oct 2004
Posts: 6893

Thanks: 14
Thanked 43 Times in 41 Posts

Location: Cape Cod, Mass
2252 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH1 Lord Mhoram's Victory


PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't read it yet either.

But just so long as there are no Hobbits and Ar-Pharazon isn't portrayed as George Bush I'll give it a shot.

Wink Laughing
_________________
http://thoolah.blogspot.com/



[Defeated by a gizmo from Batman's utility belt]
Joker: I swear by all that's funny never to be taken in by that unconstitutional device again!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tulizar
Watcher

Male
Joined: 17 Aug 2003
Posts: 839

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

Location: Swamps of Jersey
542 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 The One Forest


PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

High Lord Tolkien wrote:
I haven't read it yet either.

But just so long as there are no Hobbits and Ar-Pharazon isn't portrayed as George Bush I'll give it a shot.

Wink Laughing


Gulp...I missed that reference. And I call myself a Tolkien fan! Time to wipe the dust of my ol' Silmarillion and get to work!!
_________________
Proverbs for Paranoids #3.

If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger Phoogle Map
Trapper
Tambourine Virtuoso

Male
Joined: 11 May 2006
Posts: 1218

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

Location: Wombling free
349 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd just love to see the scene where Sauron, at the height of his power, relinquishes Middle-Earth to Ar-Pharazon because he knows he can't win.

Ar-Pharazon would be an interesting casting choice, to say the least.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
A Gunslinger
Mr. Bad Example

MaleRanyhyn
Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 8890

Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts

Location: Southern WI (Madison area)
1784 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 I Love KW1 Lord's Staff


PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I listened to the Silmarillion on tape one year travelling up north to a Thanksgiving holiday. It was very tragic in a classic sense. Worth a read if you like Tolkien's writing.
_________________
"I use my gun whenever kindness fails"



Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
Ramen
Manethrall for sure

FemaleRanyhyn
Joined: 01 Dec 2006
Posts: 102

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

Location: France
39 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always thought. the fall of Numenor would make a great film, besser even than Turin Turambar (which is also a complexe story full of betrayal, grief, dragons, fights, love) because itīs concerning men, not a strange kind of not-so-easy-comprehensive elves.
Even if there ist only a sceleton of story in the Silmarillion, you have a good discription of the isle of Numenor. And there is another story (timely before Sauron was captured) in the "News of middle-Earth", which could give perhaps an interesting background.
_________________
Every human makes mistakes. The trick is to do them, when nobody is watching (P. Ustinov)

Old loves they die hard
Old lies they die harder
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Elfgirl
Puddle Jumper

Female
Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 4406

Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

Location: West Oztraya
8843 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want to see them film the whole quest for the Silmarils - what with feisty Feanor & his lads ripping shit out of everyone! Prove that the Elfboys are no namby-pambys!
_________________

"Right away would be good. Right now would be better"
-- Nick Succorso

OK, so what's the speed of dark?- Larry the Cable Guy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zarathustra
Be True


Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 18051

Thanks: 42
Thanked 186 Times in 178 Posts


26763 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wish they had used very subtle computer graphics on all the Elves to make them look other-worldly. (At the very least, they should have erased Haldir's 5 o'clock shadow.) I don't think Elves should have looked like tall, pretty humans. They should have looked slightly alien. Slightly stretching their faces vertically (which they did in a couple shots with Arwen in ROTK), and altering their eyes to look more "Asian" would have gone a far way toward making them look more like Elves. Make it subtle enough so that people give them a double-take, and say to themselves, "There's something strange about them. . . can't put my finger on it."

Last edited by Zarathustra on Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
wayfriend
whilom witling

Male
Joined: 21 Apr 2004
Posts: 19214

Thanks: 11
Thanked 227 Times in 209 Posts

Location: The world of the Bowling Green Massacre
44683 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
3 Member of Linden's Army


PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They should all have been given a barely perceptible glow, as Tolkien sometimes described, and as they achieved in a few of the Arwen scenes.
_________________
* I occasionally post things on KevinsWatch because I am a fan of Stephen R. Donaldson; this should not be considered as condonation of the white nationalist propaganda for which this forum has become a platform.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Zarathustra
Be True


Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 18051

Thanks: 42
Thanked 186 Times in 178 Posts


26763 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wayfriend wrote:
They should all have been given a barely perceptible glow, as Tolkien sometimes described, and as they achieved in a few of the Arwen scenes.


Yes, exactly! I forgot to add that. They could have also smoothed out Elrond's skin. I know he's severl thousand years old, but did he have to look like a man in his 40s? 50s? Tolkien described Elves as looking both young and old. I never quite knew how to imagine this (except maybe how Burt Reynolds is starting to look now after multiple face-lifts Smile )

And my "Asian eye" comment wasn't quite right, either. Then they'd just look like Asian humans.

Hell, I drew a picture once of what I think Elves should look like. I'll post it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
A Gunslinger
Mr. Bad Example

MaleRanyhyn
Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 8890

Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts

Location: Southern WI (Madison area)
1784 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 I Love KW1 Lord's Staff


PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think PJ did a good job...maybe more could have been done...but all in all his elevs did not detract from my enjoyment of the movies.
_________________
"I use my gun whenever kindness fails"



Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
I'm Murrin
Aren't you?


Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 15450

Thanks: 7
Thanked 41 Times in 39 Posts

Location: North East, UK
23758 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Rubber Duck


PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pointy ears. Pointy ears.
_________________
Inspiration Struck.

Mod of the General Fantasy/Sci-Fi Forum
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Zarathustra
Be True


Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 18051

Thanks: 42
Thanked 186 Times in 178 Posts


26763 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're right, Guns. I just remember seeing some test pictures of people treated with this subtle computer effect. Actually, it was a picture of Keanu Reeves slightly altered. It looked cool! That made me very excited that they were going to get this right. But apparently, it didn't pan out, or was too expensive, or they didn't have enough time. Whatever the cause, they decided not to go that route. I think it was a mistake. But perhaps we're talking about this in the wrong thread now. I was just reacting to Elfgirl's comment. (It's her fault!)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
High Lord Tolkien
Excommunicated Member of THOOLAH

Male
Joined: 19 Oct 2004
Posts: 6893

Thanks: 14
Thanked 43 Times in 41 Posts

Location: Cape Cod, Mass
2252 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH1 Lord Mhoram's Victory


PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wayfriend wrote:
They should all have been given a barely perceptible glow, as Tolkien sometimes described, and as they achieved in a few of the Arwen scenes.



I thought only those Elves that lived under the light of the Trees (not literally "under" but those that went to Valinor and lived under their light) had the "glow".
_________________
http://thoolah.blogspot.com/



[Defeated by a gizmo from Batman's utility belt]
Joker: I swear by all that's funny never to be taken in by that unconstitutional device again!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Caer Bombadil
Forestal, Old Forest


Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 67

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

Location: rural SC
33 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 5:15 pm    Post subject: Bright-Eyed Elves Reply with quote

Someone wrote a deservedly devastating critique of Ralph Bakshi's ill-fated 1970's attempt at LOTR, now posted at the "Flying Moose of Nargothrond" site. Among many other cogent points, they observed that Bakshi's Elves were all distinguished by being drawn considerably brighter, by several f-stops. It just didn't work.

One of the biggest sfx flubs by PJ IMO was the treatment of the temptation of Galadriel. In the book, she's supposed to grow unbearably bright and beautiful so that "all will love her and despair." movie-Galadriel starts turning weird colors and altering her voice like a cross between The Exorcist and a really cheesy 1980's music video effect. "All will back away from her, and barf."

In the essay "Quendi & Eldar" in The War of the Jewels (HoME v.11) this passage appears: "... for the eyes of all the Elves that had dwelt in Aman impressed those of Middle-Earth by their piercing brightness. For which reason the Sindar often called them Lachend...'flame-eyed'."

I agree many of PJ's Elves in the LOTR movies failed to look "ageless." Hugo Weaving as Elrond in particular seemed aging, haggard, & IMO acted sort of peevish. ( I kept imagining him flubbing his lines & conflating his Agent Smith sermon to Morpheus from The Matrix with movie-Elrond's "men are weak" soliloquy to Gandalf.) The younger Elrond in the flashbacks to the War of the Last Alliance better fitted my impression of Elrond.

Somehow, I keep picturing the Silmarillion done in anime! The typical 'tude and 'dos of anime male heroes seems perfect for the Elves. Instead of Dragonballz, Silmarils!

I agree Akallabeth ( the fall of Numenor) could make a great movie with the right treatment. Continuity problems with LOTR or Hobbit or a hypothetical Sil would be minimal since it originated as a separate conception from the early Sil. The only problem might be the ending. You couldn't end with Numenor being drowned, or even Elendil & Sons arriving in Middle-Earth. You'd have to run on into "Of the Rings of Power & the Third Age" territory for a bit, perhaps up to the point fair Sauron has persuaded the hapless Mirdain of Eregion to start making these way-cool magic rings.
_________________
It is said with some truth that there is no progress without loss; and it is always said, by those who wish to destroy good things, that progress requires it. No great insight or experience of the world is necessary to see that such people really care nothing for progress. They wish to destroy for their profit, and they, being clever, try to persuade us that progress and change are synonymous.
- Gene Wolfe
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
A Gunslinger
Mr. Bad Example

MaleRanyhyn
Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 8890

Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts

Location: Southern WI (Madison area)
1784 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 I Love KW1 Lord's Staff


PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really, though all this talk of a prequel is all VERY premature. The hobbit is the movie the masses want to see. We all have memories of the Rankin Bass deal. Whereas, I'll bet less than 5% of the population will have any sort of thought on the Simarils.
_________________
"I use my gun whenever kindness fails"



Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Kevin's Watch Forum Index -> The Library -> J.R.R. Tolkien Forum All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by Earthpower © Kevin's Watch