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My reaction to Memories of Ice

 
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Rigel
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:42 am    Post subject: My reaction to Memories of Ice Reply with quote

So GOTM and DG I thought were both confusing as he**, but very good reads.

MoI, on the other hand, made sense right away, but left me feeling rather uninterested (although it got better in the last 50 pages).

I guess I'm just tired of Erikson pulling things out of a hat. We're three books in, and it seems like every other chapter there's a moment where he goes, "Oh, by the way, this happened just because even though it doesn't make sense and I never gave any hint about things like this before."

Then, of course, there's his habit of making a big reveal about a character or their background, or a secret they have... and the next page everyone else is sitting in a circle and casually mentions it, going "Oh yeah, they think we don't know." The example of this that most pissed me off was Rake mentioning his knowledge of Paran's having entered Dagnipur. After three books of it seeming like such a big deal, Rake's reaction was along the lines of discussing which jam to put on his biscuits; but there are other examples as well.

Finally, there's the sheer size of them. While I don't mind wordy writers, it seems like each of these 900 page tomes could have easily shaved off 300-400 pages. The confusion of the first two books helps here... since you don't know what's going on or who anyone is, having some extra time to absorb things actually makes it easier to comprehend. With everything being so clear and laid out in MoI, however, you realize just how much bloat there is in the series.

While the first two books were good enough that I was willing to overlook such flaws, the third book left me unimpressed enough that I honestly don't know if I'll read the fourth.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure if I'll delete this blasphemy. But I'll at least lock it for now.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a joke, right Fist?

Rigel, two things: First, why do you think you have to * out "hell?" Laughing

Second, you have to read the fourth. It brings together the first 3 books. Essential read.

If you're still not impressed, you might as well quit, 'cause 5 and 7 are damn wordy. Especially 7.

I'll be back later to make sure Fist unlocked this so you can reply. Wink

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Onos T'oolan wrote:
I'm not sure if I'll delete this blasphemy. But I'll at least lock it for now.


um....

i love you tool but don't be a tool. we can't censor just because rigel has something wrong with his brain.


Avatar wrote:
I'll be back later to make sure Fist unlocked this so you can reply. Wink

--A


i unlocked it but i can't guarantee Rigel's safety. you don't really wanna piss off t'lan imass. first sword of logros, remember. and very pissed off by the end of the series. Wink
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well at least I know who Onos T'oolan is now! Laughing
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I sent a pm to Rigel when I locked the thread, telling him I was kidding, and seeing how many reactions we'd get. I guess the Watch has been slow, and I thought we needed to spice things up a bit? Laughing

Of course, it is blasphemy. I mean, we're agreed on that, right? Heh.

Well, it doesn't always work out, Rigel. It surely can't be said you didn't give it a fair shot. Probably darned close to 3,000 pages in paperback. I think your complaint of "Oh, by the way, this happened just because even though it doesn't make sense and I never gave any hint about things like this before." is the result of the fact that Malazan is a HUGE world, with sooooooo many specific characters, and a 300,000+ year history. How big would the books be if he gave us all the backstory on all those things? He doesn't have a choice but to just throw a lot of it at us.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, some of it does get hinted at in other places. The first few books are effectively running concurrently, but we can only read sequentially.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:26 am    Post subject: Re: My reaction to Memories of Ice Reply with quote

Rigel wrote:
So GOTM and DG I thought were both confusing as he**, but very good reads.

MoI, on the other hand, made sense right away, but left me feeling rather uninterested (although it got better in the last 50 pages).

I guess I'm just tired of Erikson pulling things out of a hat. We're three books in, and it seems like every other chapter there's a moment where he goes, "Oh, by the way, this happened just because even though it doesn't make sense and I never gave any hint about things like this before."

Then, of course, there's his habit of making a big reveal about a character or their background, or a secret they have... and the next page everyone else is sitting in a circle and casually mentions it, going "Oh yeah, they think we don't know." The example of this that most pissed me off was Rake mentioning his knowledge of Paran's having entered Dagnipur. After three books of it seeming like such a big deal, Rake's reaction was along the lines of discussing which jam to put on his biscuits; but there are other examples as well.

Finally, there's the sheer size of them. While I don't mind wordy writers, it seems like each of these 900 page tomes could have easily shaved off 300-400 pages. The confusion of the first two books helps here... since you don't know what's going on or who anyone is, having some extra time to absorb things actually makes it easier to comprehend. With everything being so clear and laid out in MoI, however, you realize just how much bloat there is in the series.

While the first two books were good enough that I was willing to overlook such flaws, the third book left me unimpressed enough that I honestly don't know if I'll read the fourth.


This makes sense to me. While the secret bit doesn't bother me that much, I do get SO bored by whole swathes here and there (Felisin, tiste edur at home, start of Karsa, everything about that Letherii scout/ranger type, the whole Clip / Nimander saga are things that spring immediately to mind ). I have to admit though, that on the re-read some of these bits are more interesting, because you realise they're important to something that happens further on in the series.

But how Rigel feels about MoI, is how I feel about TtH. This is where I gave up on my initial read, and I am really struggling to finish it second time around. I've already started and finished another book since I opened it this time (with the excuse that TtH is just too big to take anywhere. I've never used that one before. It IS big, but it's not that big!)
And the problem with Malazan is, when you get distracted, it's hard to come back to because there are so many threads.

This sounds like such a negative post in preview. So I'd better add that the better bits more than make up for the yawns and my admiration for the creator(s) of such a world, knows no bounds!
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good save, Stone. Without that last paragraph, Toolman might've banned you from the forum. Laughing
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I liked Gardens of the Moon alright, and thought Deadhouse Gates was really good... so it could be that Memories of Ice was an aberration. I'm reading something a little lighter right now (Swan Song, heard of it? Very Happy), but after that I might pick up House of Chains (that's the fourth, right?)
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the fourth. And like I said, it unifies a bunch of the other stuff.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rigel wrote:
Well, I liked Gardens of the Moon alright, and thought Deadhouse Gates was really good... so it could be that Memories of Ice was an aberration. I'm reading something a little lighter right now (Swan Song, heard of it? Very Happy), but after that I might pick up House of Chains (that's the fourth, right?)

Big Grin
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you know, i'm an erikson fan and i dig his writing and the malazan world is, as i have said, my favorite fantasy world ever but...frankly rigel, i don't really see the point in you continuing to read erikson given the content of your first post.

no point in "torturing" yourself by reading more bloat, right?
if, by the time you read MoI you are not completely sucked in and in the mindset to enjoy reading erikson, another book is not really going to do it for you.

we all like what we like and don't like what we don't like and there's no accounting for that.

just forget about erikson and move on to something else.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lucimay wrote:
you know, i'm an erikson fan and i dig his writing and the malazan world is, as i have said, my favorite fantasy world ever but...frankly rigel, i don't really see the point in you continuing to read erikson given the content of your first post.

no point in "torturing" yourself by reading more bloat, right?
if, by the time you read MoI you are not completely sucked in and in the mindset to enjoy reading erikson, another book is not really going to do it for you.

we all like what we like and don't like what we don't like and there's no accounting for that.

just forget about erikson and move on to something else.


I'm of this camp. If you aren't into Malazan at this point, House of Chains sure isn't going to make you feel it. If, however, it is just mostly MoI you have these problems with, go ahead at least one more book.

Also, see a doctor. Something's wrong with you Wink Razz
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Onos T'oolan wrote:
I'm not sure if I'll delete this blasphemy. But I'll at least lock it for now.


Ok you've let them all have their say , now ban him ! Ride em Cowboy Ride em Cowboy Ride em Cowboy
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orlion wrote:

I'm of this camp. If you aren't into Malazan at this point, House of Chains sure isn't going to make you feel it. If, however, it is just mostly MoI you have these problems with, go ahead at least one more book.

Also, see a doctor. Something's wrong with you Wink Razz


Well, I really liked the first two, and it wasn't until after MoI that those things started to bug me...
Also, my post sounded a lot more critical than I meant. Sure, I see flaws, and I pointed them out... what you don't get from my post is that I just read the page count equivalent of the first six Covenant books straight through, something that very few authors can get me to do Wink
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have found after reading them all, that they are not created equal. Unless perhaps you begin to consider each volume as a chapter of the one book. Each title can be relegated a theme, or call it a lasting impression, which tends to lend it a certain individuality, or identity, but in the end they are all just chapter's of the same story. Garden's made me feel as if I had been drugged, beaten, and tossed into a new nightmare reality. Dead House, left me Broken , and defeated. Memories , strips away the last of your innocence, preparing you for what is to come. To steal a line from Donaldson , as a reader "you are being forged, as an iron is forged". You are being made , into a Bridge Burner.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it's only MoI, (for whatever reason...personally, I didn't rate it highly until after a couple rereads), then he should read HoC.

I'm, sure he wants to know how DHG ends...

--A
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