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just finished FR (spoilers)

 
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Arch of the Covenant
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:23 pm    Post subject: just finished FR (spoilers) Reply with quote

I just finished FR and wanted to join a discussion thread. Unfortunately, the threads here are so deep and interesting that I always spend my entire break time reading them, and never have time to post anything. So I'll just note my impressions here and THEN dive into some of your other grand threads.

1. This was better than ROTE. Not that it matters. But it was.

2. I like the Insequent, but I find it a little unnecessary to throw in yet another new set of power characters this late in the story arch. It's like adding a new form of magic -- it stretches objective credibility. Couldn't this have been accomplished by having a breakaway group of Elohim? Or something? It feels contrived and invented.

3. I really like the growing humanity of some of the characters, like Liand and Marthir. It was lacking from ROTE. Some of the best parts of the whole series have been the incredible characters that accompanied our anti-heroes. I feel like Liand is being set up for something big, and Marthir is being set up for some Hile-Troy-like super vision power (thanks to hurtloam), transforming him into a neo "lord" of the Ramen. I don't know. And I am SO glad to see a return of giants!

4. The blowout in Melenkurion Skyweir is probably going to be one of the top 10 standout scenes in the whole series. Breathtaking. It was as good as any of the old trilogies, imho.

5. I am really starting to like Esmer, for putting such effective smackdowns on Linden.

6. I did NOT understand the giant battle scene near the First Woodhelven. Everybody attacking everybody? What was going on? I can understand Esmer and his conflicted wurd, but what was up with Roger and the Harrow? None of it made any sense, at least in this first reading. And then a Raver comes, in possession of a pack of kresh??? It was almost magical how everybody was colliding at the same moment, bumping into each other's purposes just exactly then. Didn't really make sense. It was like a comic book. Maybe when I reread it I'll understand it more.

7. Absolutely loved the moment at the end when Covenant is looking at Linden and puts his hand over his mouth to show that he can't break the rule where her actions must be hers alone, without any counsel. It was evocative of their final moments together in the 2nd trilogy. And of course HE is the character I MOST want to see back in play.

8. I don't really mind SRD's obfuscatory word choices -- that's how he writes, and he's trying to evoke a different world and culture. But I am getting weary of how a line of dialog will be echoed endlessly in Linden's thoughts (in italics). Once or twice is fine, but 10x is too much.

9. Love the conflict between Stave and the Humbled. Adds tremendously to the story.

10. Anything critical I have said should be qualified by the fact that this is STILL a TCoTC novel and still a high achievement for SRD. I care deeply about the story and characters, and am looking forward to buying AATE.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with many of your points. Keep reading (and posting!)
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:47 pm    Post subject: Re: just finished FR (spoilers) Reply with quote

Arch of the Covenant wrote:
1. This was better than ROTE. Not that it matters. But it was.

Agreed. My favourite part of the whole of the Last Chrons is when they go back in time and meet the Old Lords. Up 'til that point in proceedings I was wondering whether SRD had lost the ability to write as well as he used to, but once the Land became a character in the story again, the writing worked for me as it always has in the 1st and 2nd Chronicles.

Arch of the Covenant wrote:
2. I like the Insequent, but I find it a little unnecessary to throw in yet another new set of power characters this late in the story arch. It's like adding a new form of magic -- it stretches objective credibility. Couldn't this have been accomplished by having a breakaway group of Elohim? Or something? It feels contrived and invented.

Plenty of talk about this one in the threads. I'm not a big fan. I find their powers too all-encompassing and too-little explained.

Arch of the Covenant wrote:
6. I did NOT understand the giant battle scene near the First Woodhelven. Everybody attacking everybody? What was going on? I can understand Esmer and his conflicted wurd, but what was up with Roger and the Harrow? None of it made any sense, at least in this first reading. And then a Raver comes, in possession of a pack of kresh??? It was almost magical how everybody was colliding at the same moment, bumping into each other's purposes just exactly then. Didn't really make sense. It was like a comic book. Maybe when I reread it I'll understand it more.

SRD talks about throwing the kitchen sink into this scene Laughing

Arch of the Covenant wrote:
8. I don't really mind SRD's obfuscatory word choices -- that's how he writes, and he's trying to evoke a different world and culture. But I am getting weary of how a line of dialog will be echoed endlessly in Linden's thoughts (in italics). Once or twice is fine, but 10x is too much.

Plenty of talk about this as well. Personally I think that up to 200 pages could have been edited out of FR without any loss of storytelling and with a distinct improvement in pacing. Mostly it's Linden rehashing almost word for word what has just happened. THOOLAH!

Arch of the Covenant wrote:
9. Love the conflict between Stave and the Humbled. Adds tremendously to the story.

Definitely one of the most interesting aspects of the Last Chrons. Plenty of speculation about how important the fate of the Haruchai is interwoven with the Last Chrons. They can't f*%# up forever!

Arch of the Covenant wrote:
10. Anything critical I have said should be qualified by the fact that this is STILL a TCoTC novel and still a high achievement for SRD. I care deeply about the story and characters, and am looking forward to buying AATE.

Plenty of criticism here (some uber-fans can't even read the Last Chrons Sad ) We all love SRD on the Watch but most of us are not fanboys/fangirls Laughing

u.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:47 pm    Post subject: Re: just finished FR (spoilers) Reply with quote

ussusimiel wrote:
but most of us are not fanboys/fangirls Laughing

u.


Since most of us

A) Know what a "plethora," is.
B) Know what "inconceivable" means
C) Know what both A and B refer to
and
D) Also read books before the movies are made

we are automatically excluded from the term "fanboy/girl."

There exists another term "Caveboy/girl," which is applicable to a subset of SRD's readers known as "THOOLAH."


Spew
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the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:39 am    Post subject: Re: just finished FR (spoilers) Reply with quote

Vraith wrote:
ussusimiel wrote:
but most of us are not fanboys/fangirls Laughing

u.


Since most of us

A) Know what a "plethora," is.
B) Know what "inconceivable" means
C) Know what both A and B refer to
and
D) Also read books before the movies are made

we are automatically excluded from the term "fanboy/girl."

I see they've let you out of the Twilight Forum again Laughing

You are so close to the Light, Vraith! Just a little step and you will realise what an unimaginable amount of excessive drivel fills Linden's mind Big Grin


Vraith wrote:

There exists another term "Caveboy/girl," which is applicable to a subset of SRD's readers known as "THOOLAH."


Spew

If by Caveboy you mean that we in THOOLAH perceive the Platonic forms, I salute you! Come join us and you too will see the meaness of the shadow cast by the Whiney One compared to the Majesty of TC!

u.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:02 am    Post subject: Re: just finished FR (spoilers) Reply with quote

ussusimiel wrote:

If by Caveboy you mean that we in THOOLAH perceive the Platonic forms, I salute you! Come join us and you too will see the meaness of the shadow cast by the Whiney One compared to the Majesty of TC!

u.


Heh. I didn't mean that, but synchronicity favors the verbose, so I accept it.
Cuz Plato's "Forms" are EXACTLY as "real" and "true" as a caveperson's drawing of bull [or its s*^t] is a real bull [or its s*^t...though it stinks as much as real bulls*^t...meta-nasally].

u. keep perceiving, I'll keep laughing.
Until you are dragged out from under the mountain and see the truth.


/whistle
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Sig-man, Libtard, Stupid piece of shit. change your text color to brown. Mr. Reliable, bullshit-slinging liarFucker-user.

the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:05 am    Post subject: Re: just finished FR (spoilers) Reply with quote

Vraith wrote:
Heh. I didn't mean that, but synchronicity favors the verbose, so I accept it.
Cuz Plato's "Forms" are EXACTLY as "real" and "true" as a caveperson's drawing of bull [or its s*^t] is a real bull [or its s*^t...though it stinks as much as real bulls*^t...meta-nasally].

Oh, you are sooo close! Your every word shadows the Truth of THOOLAH!

Your description so accurately captures the experience of being in the presence of the manure that passes for Linden's thought processes that I am seriously inclined to deem you a Honorary Member of THOOLAH. Henceforth, I shall address you as Vraith(HMT) Mr. Green

u.

[P.S. Apologies Arch, for derailing your thread, but, as you can see, this is a serious and long-standing issue Laughing ]
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:44 am    Post subject: Re: just finished FR (spoilers) Reply with quote

Vraith wrote:

There exists another term "Caveboy/girl," which is applicable to a subset of SRD's readers known as "THOOLAH."[/color]


I find this offensive. I'm a member of Linden's Army, jumankekka perkele!!!

ussusimiel wrote:

Your description so accurately captures the experience of being in the presence of the manure that passes for Linden's thought processes


Stonemage and I appear to have a sudden appetite for some roasted gourd filled with wild fowl...
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:08 pm    Post subject: Re: just finished FR (spoilers) Reply with quote

Frostheart wrote:
ussusimiel wrote:

Your description so accurately captures the experience of being in the presence of the manure that passes for Linden's thought processes


Stonemage and I appear to have a sudden appetite for some roasted gourd filled with wild fowl...

Now there's no need to get personal, Frosty. Please keep the ad pumpkinem attacks for the 'Tank Laughing

u.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:01 pm    Post subject: Re: just finished FR (spoilers) Reply with quote

ussusimiel wrote:
Frostheart wrote:
ussusimiel wrote:

Your description so accurately captures the experience of being in the presence of the manure that passes for Linden's thought processes


Stonemage and I appear to have a sudden appetite for some roasted gourd filled with wild fowl...

Now there's no need to get personal, Frosty. Please keep the ad pumpkinem attacks for the 'Tank Laughing

u.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You tell 'em Frosty!

The ussusimiel / Vraith banter is always amusing, and far less a blood sport than other Watch feuds...but the days of THOOLAH as a defensible position are numbered. This fall will be the end of their conceit.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Be ... all that you can be ... in Linden's Army. We're still recruiting. Just for signing up, you get a cool Item from the Store.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:07 pm    Post subject: Re: just finished FR (spoilers) Reply with quote

Frostheart wrote:
Vraith wrote:

There exists another term "Caveboy/girl," which is applicable to a subset of SRD's readers known as "THOOLAH."[/color]


I find this offensive. I'm a member of Linden's Army, jumankekka perkele!!!

No need to be offended [or swear at me in foreign tongues, since I assume you aren't calling me a thunder god. I would be flattered by the promotion since I am currently only a rain god]...Linden's Army is enlightened, therefore not subject to being categorized as a cave-dweller of any sex/gender.

ussusimiel wrote:

Now there's no need to get personal, Frosty. Please keep the ad pumpkinem attacks for the 'Tank

u.


ad pumpkinem?... . ad pumpkinem
I salute you. Not did I spew coffee upon reading, I'm pretty sure when I go out for brews tonight, I'm gonna try and tell someone about that and spew my beer, too.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Savor Dam wrote:
You tell 'em Frosty!

The ussusimiel / Vraith banter is always amusing, and far less a blood sport than other Watch feuds...but the days of THOOLAH as a defensible position are numbered. This fall will be the end of their conceit.


I have a feeling she'll be plenty whiny in TLD, so THOOLAH will remain a viable position for years to come.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:57 pm    Post subject: Re: just finished FR (spoilers) Reply with quote

Vraith wrote:

No need to be offended [or swear at me in foreign tongues, since I assume you aren't calling me a thunder god. I would be flattered by the promotion since I am currently only a rain god]...Linden's Army is enlightened, therefore not subject to being categorized as a cave-dweller of any sex/gender.


Razz I'm calling old gods to grant gravitas to my sentence. I've more or less joked about my cavewoman genes several times here on the Watch, and mentioned the Finnish Cro-Magnon inheritance. (Which might be of some general interest to those who argue about the Neanderthals in the Tank; according to anthropological features, these back-then-co-existing "Cro-Magnon cavemen" would have appeared rather similar to the present-day Finns. In an equal fashion, stronger or weaker traces of Neanderthals lurk in the contemporary world. Australian Aborigines for instance have comparable prominent browridges.) Which is why I don't want our modern cavefolk associated with THOOLAH. Razz

Jumankekka can be loosely translated as "by the sacrificial stone of Jumo". Perkele is another name for Ukko Ylijumala.
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