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FR Part 2 - Chapter 8 - Salva Gildenbourne

 
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hue of fuzzpaws
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:26 am    Post subject: FR Part 2 - Chapter 8 - Salva Gildenbourne Reply with quote

Chapter 8 - Salva Gildenbourne

or

The Safety of the Golden Boundary


Firstly, I will give a quick resume of this chapter, which I will then follow

with my thoughts/ideas.


This chapter begins with Linden feeling down at the implication of what

the Harrow has told her, that only he can get her to Jeremiah. Leaving

the others, she takes herself away and tries to get her ranyhyn to

transport her to where Jeremiah is.


Mahrtiir then appears and counsels Linden.




After Liand has cleansed the effect of Kevin’s Dirt from the

woodhelvenvin, the party then continues their journey towards Andelain.




There is an interlude as Mahrtiir recounts the story of the Lord’s Hyrim

and Shetra’s epic ride made by the ranyhyn from the Sarangrave

to Defiles Course in the course of a night and part of a day, a distance

of three score leagues (180 miles?)



They then come in to sight of Salva Gildenbourne. Linden is viewing the

terrain, when Liand draws her attention is some smoke in the far

distance. Linden also becomes aware of some sort of diseased

Earthpower in the same area as the smoke.

These, she realizes are the skurj, the fire-beasts of Kastenessen.


The party then makes it way down the edge of the thick, jungle like

growth of Salva Gildenbourne. There Mahrtiir tells Linden that they

cannot expect the ranyhyn to bear the party through the thick woodland.

Both Stave and the Humbled agree with Mahrtiir’s reasoning.

After Linden has blown off some steam the party sets off to find a water

course that the party can navigate through the heart of the Gildenbourne.


The party splits up, with the cords and the Humbled scouting ahead

through the maze-like interior of the jungle. Anele suffers from one

of his bouts of communication, after which he runs away from the party

in distress.

Linden is made aware of Bhapa running back to the party, greatly

distressed. He relates how he felt one of theskurj

pass underneath his feet. Linden realizes that Anele,being so

full of Earthpower, will attract the attention of the

skurj. Then for some reason Liand starts powering up the orcrest

and Linden feels the approach of the skurj.





She calls forth the power of the staff and the skurj erupts from out of the

stream bed. As she battles it, Linden realizes

that the true purpose of Kevin’s Dirt t is to curtail the use of massive

amounts of Earthpower, so she is unable to invoke enough Earthpower

to deal with the skurj.


Suddenly Linden finds herself about to be split in half by a maddened

Giant wielding a sword!
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In this chapter there seems to be rather alot of elemental images.

We have SRD talking about how the

" . . . hills faded into a wild plain like a steppe . . ." [FR. pg. 660]

we have ". . . a region of rugged, stony hills like glacial moraines."
[FR. pg. 663]

Areas of remoteness and wildness. Then we come to the Gildenbourne;


"It stretched from the eastern horizon across her path and into the west,

where it began to curve by slight degrees towards the south: a rich

variegated green panoply bedecked at intervals with the ineffable gold of

Gilden trees, and prodigal with the new growth of spring and rain,

profligate with life and sublte Earthpower." [FR. pg.672]


Next we have the party traveling into the Gildenbourne;

"As her eyes adjusted to Salva Gildenborne's crepuscular atmosphere,

she found that Mahrtiir and Clyme had already passed beyond a curve in

the rill. But even if the watercourse had run straight, the Manethrall and

the Humbled might have been veiled by the tangle of brush and saplings

. . ." [FR.pg.681]
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hue, I'm not sure if I should jump in yet, or let you finish your thoughts first.

One of the elemental images I find in this chapter is that of the skurj. We finally get to see a skurj!!! Some discussion of what they are should surely follow.

The first time through this book, they confused me. This time, upon more careful reading, I can see that the aren't as big as I first imagined them to be. I had the impression, for some reason, that they are huge. Nicor huge. Six or Eight feet in diameter, forty or fifty feet long. But, as it turns out, they are perhaps twenty-five feet long, and only two or three feet wide. This makes the events in the subsequent chapters much easier to accept.
Quote:
It rose as tall as a Giant above her, and as thick as a cedar. Its hide was as heavy and hot as slag: the entire length of the creature emitted a terrible heat. Yet the hide shed no light. Even the tremendous kraken maw and gullet gave no illumination. Only the teeth, the fearsome fangs, long as stakes, curved and keen as scimitars, row after row of them filling the jaws: only the teeth shone. They burned with a sick red slashing radiance like lamps along the passage into hell.

The imagery of the glowing teeth is very provacative. As if the creature lives, like a shark, solely to kill and eat. Again, I could say that the first time through, I imagined the whole creature glowing. But this is much more ... elemental.
Quote:
The creature rising to devour trees and dirt and Linden did not reason, and knew no fear. Therefore it could not be turned aside. It would eat and eat, afflicting everything in its vicinity with rot, until the very Earth was torn open at last.

As I said, like a shark. "What you've got here is a perfect eating machine. It's a miracle of evolution. It does nothing but swim, eat, and make little sharks."

And it seems that the skurj have been driven insane by Kastenessen.
Quote:
Over the course of millennia, however, all of the skurj had received the legacy of Kastenessen's rage. During his Appointed Durance, they had been transmogrified; harnessed to his service. From him, they had inherited perversion. Goaded by his hate, they had become havoc and insatiable sickness.

Insane: Enraged. Perverted. Sick.

But we should not consider them evil.
Quote:
Rather than fire, she descried a kind of diseased Earthpower ...

They were a distortion rather than a shattering of Law ...

As it came, she read the nature of the skurj. Mindless as cyclones and earthquakes, the monster was a product of organic magic. It had been born in magma: it throve in infernos and molten stone. And it ate the living earth. The earth's flesh sustained its savagery. Yet it was not an inherent evil comparable to the Illearth Stone. Nor did it exist outside the bounds of Law, as did the Viles and their descendants. And it did not intend ruin: it had no intention except appetite.

So, they are beings Earthpower. A power of organic magic. Within the bounds of Law.

So twisted by Kastenessen, but originally natural, Lawful. Twisted like the sunbane into diseased Earthpower, a distortion of the Law.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats ok WF, the skurj were going to be next on the list. Reading your

reply, I think you have said most of what I had put down. The only thing I

will say about the skurj was I had not realised that the skurj

sounds the same as scourge, which according to my dictionary:

" 1.A source of widespread dreadful affliction and devastation such as

that caused by pestilence or war.

2. A means of inflicting severe suffering, vengeance, or punishment.

3. A whip used to inflict punishment."
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll wait for you to finish, then, before I add more.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My two cents while you two wait for each other. Some interesting perceptions brought forth by hue an way, but i got held up on the second page of this chapter. Took me awhile to get beyond it..Mahrtiir's exchange with Linden including;" When all hope was gone, they heeded the counsels of despair. Had they continued to strive, defying their doom, some unforeseen wonder might have occurred."..well..thats the whole secret of going forward. The future is comprised of Hope. There is no future that doesn't have hope in it. A future with out hope..is living in the past.

There are short little parables about stamina in this chapter. The many leagues traveled by the horses in one night for example. This allude to depth..comes back at the end of the chapter with Linden realizing how the Kevins dirt prohibits her from reaching her full depth of power exertion. There seems to be a test of the readers stamina as well in the slow , nonchalant pace of this chapter.
I mean..in this chapter,, as none before, i felt the presence of the author, as if he was reading the story to me..Its that " indeed" he drops in there.,," Indeed!!??...INdeed " Indeed"!! And there was another weirdo line..check out the alliteration on this line,,on pg 464 : " They certainly had not wanted anyone to visit Andelain, where the numinous manifestation of Earthpower would undermine everything that Staves kinsmen had striven to accomplish."..the " n's" are neat but..i sense a certain going beyond the necessary here.. For why?.. its like ,,again,,the author is inserting the story teller into the story,, or bringing the story teller alot closer to our attention. " Certainly"..and " Indeed". Perhaps hes just stringing us out..a bit longer.. checking our stamina,,until he re-introduces the Giants..

The skurj,,and i don't know why..seem even more terrorizing than 1st read or second read. Maybe its the 5th season of LOST getting to me..i don't know...But.. the contrast between the wide open plains and the Salva Gildenbourne..magnificent. Linden is actually thinking ahead. Realizing the urgency to get to Andelain isn't to be met by the easiest path. She is thinking in terms of defense and scouting and expenditure of resources..Quite the Commander she is becoming. Until she meets up with the Avarice. Then its mono-e-mono and she finds her wall. Theres that story teller again, inserting itself with what we already know. Reminding us about how her folks just screwed her up good like. But ...Linden finds enuf depth of power to hold off the land shark.

I am reminded..or ..a sensation that overcame me while reading this chapter brought back a memory of my dad reading a bed time story to me when a little schitt.,,me, not my dad. So, like the author lulls me in to a stupor, drags it out with some fluff..then mounting terror and ...BANG!!!..a freekin crazy giant gonna slice Linden in half..The author succeeded. Just Like .. for Linden (mirror image)..for the reader , we are kinda brought to a unforeseen wonder.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:34 am    Post subject: Re: FR Part 2 - Chapter 8 - Salva Gildenbourne Reply with quote

hue of bone wrote:
Chapter 8 - Salva Gildenbourne

or

The Safety of the Golden Boundary


Given the context, "bourne" more likely translates as "river" or "stream." These often act as natural boundaries.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for your comment TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd, however, the

translation of SRD's chapter heading was carefully chosen. Whereas 'bourne'

can refer to a stream or water course, the usual use of this term is for a

high running winter flood stream, rather than just a stream.

Can anyone on the board confirm that 'salva' can mean safe or safety ?
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bourne_(placename)
Quote:

Bourne is a word from the Anglo-Saxon language of England. It means a stream, flowing from a spring. It is commonly used in southern England as a name for a small river, particularly in compound names such as Winterbourne. Alternative forms are bourn or borne. The apparent variant, borne which is found in Camborne arises from the Cornish language and refers to a hill.


"Placename." The context which I referred to was the manner in which "bourne" was used in names of places.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I, for one, interpretted "Gildenbourne" as "bearing Gilden". "Salva" hints to me of "salve", a healing potion. It harkens to the idea that it was created by efforts to heal the Land.

It's kind of sad that it's not as "well made" (for lack of a better word) as the old forests.

Some final things I wanted to point out.

Exclamation I cross-posted the reference to Kevin in the Ranyhyn/sacrifice thread. I think Donaldson is speaking straight to us here.
Quote:
"Therein lay Kevin Landwaster's error - aye, and great Kelenbhrabanal's also. When all hope was gone, they heeded the counsels of despair. Had they continued to strive, defying their doom, some unforeseen wonder might have occurred. And if it did not, still their glory would have surpassed their failure."

Why bring it up here, though?

Exclamation I think that this chapter reveals Linden's intentions for the first time. Intentions she has held unspoken since Revelstone.
Quote:
While the great horses pounded the steppe, Linden prayed that she would be able to reach the Hills and Loric's krill in time; and that she would find Thomas Covenant and hope among the Dead.

Thomas Covenant's revenant. The krill. And hope.

Exclamation Anele's ravings have to be examined for hidden truths.
Quote:
Urgently he hissed. "Only rock and wood know the truth of the Earth. The truth of life. But wood is too brief. Morinmoss redeemed the covenant, the white gold wielder. The Forestal sang, and Morinmoss answered. Now those days are lost. All vastness is forgotten. Unsustained, wood cannot remember the lore of the Colossus, the necessary forbidding of evils -"

The forest won't be protecting them. . .

Quote:
"There is too much. Power and peril. Malevolence. Ruin. And too little time. The last days of the Land are counted." His voice became a growl of distress. "Without forbidding, there is too little time."

The Last Days. The Mahdoubt hinted that they were coming, too.

Quote:
"Forget purpose." His eyes were hints, nacre and frenetic, in his shadowed face. "Forget the Elohim. They, too, are imperiled. Become as trees, the roots of trees. Seek deep rock."

The Elohim are in trouble. Trouble for their lives. We need to remember this when considering their motivations.

Seek deep rock. That's not insane, considering what's coming.

Quote:
"I have to go to Andelain. I have to believe in what I'm doing. Covenant told me to find him. I don't know where else to look."

Briefly the old man pulled at his bedraggled hair. Then he appeared to make a supreme effort, as if he were clasping at lucidity that leaked through his fingers like water; and his voice changed. For a moment, a handful of words, he sounded like Sunder; like his own father, eerie and sorrowing.

"He did not know of your intent."

Linden is looking for Covenant. But Covenant may not have anticipated what she would do.

Quote:
"We are not alone."

We are not alone. Bwa ha ha ha ha!

Quote:
"Others also are lost."

Eeeeeeeeeooooooo boof.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course Jeremiah helped Kastenessen out of his Durance with one of his "doors."
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That hasn't been stated anywhere yet. In fact, it was stated that the key to Kastenessen's freedom was his willingness to merge himself with the skurj. I presume thereby changing himself so much that the Durance did not recognize him and so did not function.

Also, I'm not sure that Jeremiah did anything in the Land until he came, which was at the same time Linden came. And Kastenessen was already free by that point.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we failed to give enough attention to one of the most important parts of the chapter here.

Quote:
In gratitude and extreme fever, Linden howled the Seven Words, and hurled conflagration as intense as a solar flare at the skurj - and learned the real purpose of Kevin's Dirt.

Within its definitions - within the bounds of Earthpower and Law - the Staff had no limits except those of its wielder. And Linden's doubt and terror had passed. She had been annealed in her battle with Roger and the croyel: she was prepared to unleash any amount of flame against the skurj. It was not alone. Doubtless more of its kind rushed to assail her. She would have to slay them all. The Land's life as well as Jeremiah's depended on her. She did not mean to fail.

She should have been able to ask the Staff for as much Earthpower as she needed.

But she had forgotten the cloying pall of Kevin's Dirt. The blindness, the truncation of percipience, which it imposed was only one of its effects.

Fighting for her life, she discovered that Kevin's Dirt hampered other forms of Earthpower as well.

It restricted her fire.

During her battle with Roger and the croyel, Kevin's Dirt had not constrained her. It had not existed in that time. And it had not prevented her from extinguishing caesures, or from slaying Cavewights and kresh, because those exertions had not required as much raw force as she sought here. Caesures violated all Law: all Law aided her against them. And Cavewights and kresh were perishable, as prone to immolation as any man or woman or child.

But now - God!

Kevin's Dirt had been created for this: to inhibit the uttermost use of Earthpower. Linden was not being driven backward because she was human and weak, but rather because her attempts to summon the full resources of the Staff were clogged by a ubiquitous fug of wrongness.

Implications, anyone?
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMO, this is a plot device by SRD to weaken Linden further. As we've discussed before, with white gold and Staff she should be invincible, and where's the story in that?
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeremiah was already familiar with certain elements from the Land, including one mysterious and as-yet unidentified sculpture he built.

I'm not saying that Jeremiah freed Kastenessen all by himself, obviously he had help. And who knows how long he's been in the Land? One day in the "real" world is equal to one year in the Land.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dlbpharmd wrote:
IMO, this is a plot device by SRD to weaken Linden further. As we've discussed before, with white gold and Staff she should be invincible, and where's the story in that?


It is that, I think...and it is also also meant to drive Linden beyond restraint, into desperation and rage, and into use of the white gold.
To some extent, Linden can use the staff to control the chaos of white gold. On the other hand, the staff is limited by the user, and it's nature: but white gold can overcome the strictures, and if Linden in her rage/desperation is driven beyond caring...then she's not only invincible, she is on the wrong side.
Purpose-wise, much in common with TC/Venom, though 'tailored' to Linden's particular strengths, weaknesses, and needs.
(sorry if this repeats other speculations...it's taking a long time to catch up with ALL the dissections)
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayfriend wrote:
"Salva" hints to me of "salve", a healing potion.


The Latin for forest is "silva" - I, for one, saw a simple connection between Salva Gildenbourne forest and the Latin etymology for forest, but I agree that a "salve" is very relevant. Another word that draws on many possible references?
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another possibility being the Latin "salva" meaning "save", or salvation.
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