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If the General Interview was still open....
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:49 pm    Post subject: If the General Interview was still open.... Reply with quote

What would you ask SRD?

Personally I'm dying to know what those items he seeded in the Second Chronicles were that prepared the way for the Last Chronicles.

Obviously the story of Kasty and probably the A-Jeroth song that mentions his lover. But what else?
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's closed indefinitely, but who knows, if SRD has any free time and is feeling reckless one night he may open it again. Razz

I'd ask him about the epilogue. Like... why was it necessary and why include hints of more adventures when you don't plan to continue them. Evil or Very Mad
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have a problem with the hints at future adventures that we'll never hear about. Like the Acolyte. Or moksha being left out there. Or Kevin's Wards 3-6. There have to be some loose ends, and most of the ones in the epilogue did not feel to me like unresolved loose ends from the narrative (though there were a couple of those too).

I would ask him about why he cut out or did not write any description at all about how the Earth was remade. That's where my greatest disappointment lies, so that's what I'd most want to know.

I might also ask him to describe one or two examples of what made this installment such a challenge to write. Oh I can imagine what they might be, but I'd like to hear what he experienced in the process of writing the thing.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good question. I'd probably piss him off, and he is one of my favorite writers:

1. Why even bother with writing Roger into the LC??. He was a very one dimensional character who showed no growth at all during the story and his ending was a giant joke. He was whiney, pissy and even his dialog didnt fit with anything else in the story. He never felt real, Covenant never even felt anything for him even though he was his son, I could go on and on.

2. SHMNBN was likewise a very thin thread with no satisfying explanation or ending. If she had ended up being Miassomer (sp=? but you know, Mrs. A Jeroth) it would have made some sense. The whole "Pink hand of God" sucker punch she gave Foul at the end didnt even make sense. He isnt even a corporeal being, and not even being stuck by the Krill will change that. Why all of the sudden can anything knock him flat?

3. How is it that the Elohim didnt know how to put the worm back to sleep, and the, all of the sudden, they did?

4. How is this ending in any sense "more enduring" that WGW? After WGW he needed millenia to come back. Currently, Foul sis a separate entitiy inside TC. If TC DIes, loses his mind, or succumbs to possession, then He is back. It wont take millenia for that to happen.

5. It was stated repeatedly that the Haruchai NEVER confronted Foul. Sure they did" Korik, Sill and Doar did so in TIW, under the influence of the Illearth Stone. (Note to self: Don't get stoned and try to confront Evil...)

6. TC and Linden both entered ceasures, but how come every time they do it again, its a gigantic deal and theyll all almost surely die? It was done to death.

7. TC has had the Krill and Gold ring before in 2C, but suddenly, with a few minutes of reasoning, and Poof! he can translate himself and his company across tens of leagues. Pretty convenient. too convenient.

8. Infelice: "Thanks for the great hiding spot. But I have to kill you now. "
Jeremiah: "No, You don't. "
Giants: "We have his back."
Infelice: "Oh, Ok, I don't have to kill you. I'm leaving and I'm taking Kasty with me.Good luck."
really?

9. So we have 4 books in the Last Chrons, each 1000 pages, but you can't spare 2 pages to explain how the entire Earth was remade along with all of its denizens. TC, Linden and Jeremiah ascend on a cloud of rainbows and next thing we know they get the sammite robes, silvery outlines, and a party at the Andelain Theatre.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd ask SRD to release the Director's Cut of TLD... or if it wasn't actually an over-zealous editor that cut out the the material that so many of us are disappointed not to find, I'd ask SRD if he wouldn't mind getting on with writing it up and then issuing a "Gildenfire"-type addendum to TLD.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iQuestor wrote:
Good question. I'd probably piss him off, and he is one of my favorite writers:....


[snip]

Wow...lot of bitterness there. So tell me what you really thought of TLD.

I loved it.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my best Esmer impression, I will not let this stand! :^P

iQuestor wrote:
Good question. I'd probably piss him off, and he is one of my favorite writers:

1. Why even bother with writing Roger into the LC??. He was a very one dimensional character who showed no growth at all during the story and his ending was a giant joke. He was whiney, pissy and even his dialog didnt fit with anything else in the story. He never felt real, Covenant never even felt anything for him even though he was his son, I could go on and on.
While we're at it, why include Lord Foul? He doesn't grow as a character, is always whining about how everything sucks and how unfair it is that he's trapped in Time, etc. etc.

Covenant never had much to do with his son, and has not for thousands of years (from his perspective). When he does meet his son, Roger is a psychopath afraid of death and trying to kill everything so he can become god and avoid his mortal coils. And several times, Covenant ponders over his responsibility for his son, does not immediately blast him to atoms, etc. I understand we do not get much in the way of Roger's POV, but it is there in his actions, desperation, and part Foul decided he would play.

Quote:
2. SHMNBN was likewise a very thin thread with no satisfying explanation or ending. If she had ended up being Miassomer (sp=? but you know, Mrs. A Jeroth) it would have made some sense. The whole "Pink hand of God" sucker punch she gave Foul at the end didnt even make sense. He isnt even a corporeal being, and not even being stuck by the Krill will change that. Why all of the sudden can anything knock him flat?
You know who else isn't a corporeal being? SHMNBN. They are both beings outside of Time, and She seems to harbor some resentment to Foul, of course she'll smack him around to prevent him from leaving through the Arch. Think about it this way: you are in a mess because of some idiot and are now running from zombies. You are very upset and, while escaping, decide to trip the idiot and keep running. That's how I view She's reaction, she's escaping through the Arch, happens to notice Foul, and so trips him.

And personally, I'm not disappointed that we do not get a name... she's an eternal being from Outside of Time, for Christ's Sake, if she had any name that required less then six tongues and a few tentacles to pronounce, THAT would be lame.

Quote:
3. How is it that the Elohim didnt know how to put the worm back to sleep, and the, all of the sudden, they did?
It's the difference between the Worm being ravenous and devouring Elohim and the Worm being sated with Earthblood. That'd be like turkey legs trying to get Grandpa to go to sleep before Thanksgiving dinner: it's just not going to happen before they get devoured.

Quote:
4. How is this ending in any sense "more enduring" that WGW? After WGW he needed millenia to come back. Currently, Foul sis a separate entitiy inside TC. If TC DIes, loses his mind, or succumbs to possession, then He is back. It wont take millenia for that to happen.


Foul is as much a separate entity as Mahrtir is a separate entity from the new Forestal. That is: not really and certainly not long enough. Taking in Foul changed Covenant, and I imagine being a part of Covenant will change Foul to the point where they will become a different being (much like how Brinn and the Theomach became Ak-haru, and so on and so forth.)

Quote:
5. It was stated repeatedly that the Haruchai NEVER confronted Foul. Sure they did" Korik, Sill and Doar did so in TIW, under the influence of the Illearth Stone. (Note to self: Don't get stoned and try to confront Evil...)


It is stated they did not do so with Covenant. Bannor did not join Covenant the first time, Cail did not join him the second time. This is the first time a Haruchai has been with Covenant when he has faced off with Foul.

Quote:
6. TC and Linden both entered ceasures, but how come every time they do it again, its a gigantic deal and theyll all almost surely die? It was done to death.
A deadly threat/risk is a deadly threat/risk no matter how often you do it. It'd be silly if the ceasures ceased to be threatening.

Quote:
7. TC has had the Krill and Gold ring before in 2C, but suddenly, with a few minutes of reasoning, and Poof! he can translate himself and his company across tens of leagues. Pretty convenient. too convenient.
It's not really Poof! when it drains him and he needs someone to carry him every time after the first time and still needs someone like the Ranyhyn or Haruchai to point him in the right direction. It also never occured to him to try something like that in the 2C... he did not need to, the World was not about to end if he did not travel several hundred miles in a half hour.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orlion wrote:
In my best Esmer impression, I will not let this stand! :^P


Excellent job. I didn't have the motivation/energy to rebut like that.

I find it really difficult to argue with someone on the internet, anyway. As I always say: "The Internet: 1000000 arguments, 0 minds changed."
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orlion wrote:
Quote:
7. TC has had the Krill and Gold ring before in 2C, but suddenly, with a few minutes of reasoning, and Poof! he can translate himself and his company across tens of leagues. Pretty convenient. too convenient.
It's not really Poof! when it drains him and he needs someone to carry him every time after the first time and still needs someone like the Ranyhyn or Haruchai to point him in the right direction. It also never occured to him to try something like that in the 2C... he did not need to, the World was not about to end if he did not travel several hundred miles in a half hour.

Also, in the 2nd Chronicles time hadn't been damaged yet, and Covenant didn't really have any idea how to use wild magic for anything but destruction - or that such things were possible. (On the other hand, Linden used wild magic for healing in the 2nd Chrons, something she seems to have forgotten in the Last Chrons.)
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm Murrin wrote:

Quote:
(On the other hand, Linden used wild magic for healing in the 2nd Chrons, something she seems to have forgotten in the Last Chrons.)


But didn't Linden use wild magic to heal Stave after he got is ass handed to him by Esmer back in Runes? I seem to recall that pretty clearly. Lemme go dig into the book and see if I can confirm...
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, Linden used wild magic to heal on two occasions in Runes. She used it to heal the Ramen Cord, and then later she used it to heal Stave after his fight with Esmer at the Verge of Wandering.

As for Covenant using wild magic via the krill for distance travel, I have no problem with it. The internal consistency of the narrative allows for his using Linden's example to reason how he might use wild magic for something constructive rather than destructive. I only wonder how in hell he remembered that moment. He witnessed it while he was still the Timewarden, and then lost access to those memories when he sealed the cracks in his mind. So how can he still remember specifics of what Linden did when she and Anele fell from Kevin's Watch? To me, that is the plot hole here, if there is one. I need to reread that part, I guess...
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I imagine being a part of Covenant will change Foul to the point where they will become a different being (much like how Brinn and the Theomach became Ak-haru


Great analogy (and good foreshadowing!)
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orlion wrote:
In my best Esmer impression, I will not let this stand! :^P


I've been on this forum a long time. TC is my favorite series and I have read it dozens of times. However I am not one to gush over everything he does or have a knee jerk reaction to anything he writes as being awesome. I am a critical reader.

that being said, everyone here has their opinion as to the books and some will of course like and accept things that others don't. Thats fine. thats normal. thats expected.

However, it should be noted that Just because this is a forum dedicated to SRD doesnt mean anyone who is critical of this piece or that book is automatically wrong, so statements like "1000 arguments, 0 changed minds" doesn't apply, and is slightly offensive.

Therefore, I am not defending my opinion that TLD leaves a lot to be desired and that I wasn't that crazy about it; its my opinion, there is no right or wrong about it. But what I will do is give the reasons why I feel the way I do so you at least understand my position, if you dont share my sentiment. Agreed? Smile


Orlion wrote:
While we're at it, why include Lord Foul? He doesn't grow as a character, is always whining about how everything sucks and how unfair it is that he's trapped in Time, etc. etc.


It's different. Foul is in EVERY Book. He has Changed in each Chronicle, even though he never stops being evil, he changes his tactics. Remember, Foul is used as a foil for evil, He is an Archetype. Archetypes are the foil against which the protagonist challenges himself , gorws, then fails or succeeds. so of course he wont "grow" as a character. He isn't supposed to!

Orlion wrote:
Covenant never had much to do with his son, and has not for thousands of years (from his perspective). When he does meet his son, Roger is a psychopath afraid of death and trying to kill everything so he can become god and avoid his mortal coils. And several times, Covenant ponders over his responsibility for his son, does not immediately blast him to atoms, etc. I understand we do not get much in the way of Roger's POV, but it is there in his actions, desperation, and part Foul decided he would play.


Do you have kids? I do. While I understand Roger was taken away from him by Joan, he was still his Son. During the 10 years between C1 and C2, Covenant wouldve or should've tried to contact him if he was any kind of human being, especially one with such a focus on right/wrong and responsibility as TC has always shown. Not having much to do with a son isnt the same as being completely aloof and not even flinching when he is killed right in front of you. Readers should be able to empathize with characters, and TC's complete lack of a bond with Roger jars me out of the story because as a parent, it's hard to accept.

I know people who have had kids taken by estranged spouses and dont see them for decades. But there is something there simply because its their child. As a Father I cannot accept TC would be completely aloof to Roger.

There was never any interaction or bonding or character development of Roger at all, not in 4 long books. His dialog was jarringly out of sync to the text, and in the end he adds nothing except another random foe.

Therefore, Roger is absolutely a 1 dimensional character who adds nothing.

SRD missed a great story line in not developing this bond between TC and Roger, and having Roger grow as a character, so that in the end this could be a resolved plot point rather than a jarring realization that TC didnt even flinch or take notice when his son was brutally killed right in front of him.

you argue it had been millenia since he has seen or heard from roger. The exact same is true for him not seeing Linden, Joan or any others he cared about in the Land. He killed Joan and felt something, but there is never any indication he felt anything for his son. at all.

Quote:
2. SHMNBN was likewise a very thin thread with no satisfying explanation or ending. If she had ended up being Miassomer (sp=? but you know, Mrs. A Jeroth) it would have made some sense. The whole "Pink hand of God" sucker punch she gave Foul at the end didnt even make sense. He isnt even a corporeal being, and not even being stuck by the Krill will change that. Why all of the sudden can anything knock him flat?


Orlion wrote:
You know who else isn't a corporeal being? SHMNBN. They are both beings outside of Time, and She seems to harbor some resentment to Foul, of course she'll smack him around to prevent him from leaving through the Arch. Think about it this way: you are in a mess because of some idiot and are now running from zombies. You are very upset and, while escaping, decide to trip the idiot and keep running. That's how I view She's reaction, she's escaping through the Arch, happens to notice Foul, and so trips him.

And personally, I'm not disappointed that we do not get a name... she's an eternal being from Outside of Time, for Christ's Sake, if she had any name that required less then six tongues and a few tentacles to pronounce, THAT would be lame.


Where did you get the idea She had a huge grievance against Foul? From the text we have exactly NO viewpoint on SHMNBN. AFAIK, we don't know what her relationship or attitude was toward Foul. I don't remember ever reading anything that suggested her opinion or position toward Foul.
If I have missed this in the text, please point it out to me.

We could argue Linden whispered to her as they were doing whatever it was before they dropped into Mt Thunder, "Hey? Wanna do me a favor and sucker Punch this guy whose been giving me trouble?" but then, SRD would have, or should have explained that. But its never explained, or mentioned.

ALso, Foul is a lot stronger than any Bane or being, so why should She be able to knock him flat? because he got stuck with a blade fashioned by Loric? Nope.

I agree with you, some name no one heard before would be Lame! It would have no meaning. How about her name being A Jeroth's estanged Mrs (Diassomer whatever)? It would have tied the whole thing together well, SRD missed a great chance there, as well.

Quote:
3. How is it that the Elohim didnt know how to put the worm back to sleep, and the, all of the sudden, they did?


Orlion wrote:
It's the difference between the Worm being ravenous and devouring Elohim and the Worm being sated with Earthblood. That'd be like turkey legs trying to get Grandpa to go to sleep before Thanksgiving dinner: it's just not going to happen before they get devoured.


There is exactly no support for it in the text. Infelice didnt say "Well, the worm was pretty full, so we played some Jim Nabors All Time Christmas Favorites CDs and it put him right out." All she said was they put him back to slumber ( I don't have the the book in front of me).

The Elohim are Earthpower Incarnate. Don't you think that they would have known if the Worm got full they would have the ability to put it to sleep? Is it possible that they Didn't know this, but knew everything else about the worm? Sorry, no. The Elohim were terrified of the WOrm because they were its food. If there was the remote possibility that the Worm could be returned to slumber, they would know and plan for this. However, There was NO explanation for their sudden knowledge. So therefore it seemed very contrived.

SRD didn't explain a great many things in TLD and its very jarring, as opposed to the previous chrons.


Quote:
4. How is this ending in any sense "more enduring" that WGW? After WGW he needed millenia to come back. Currently, Foul sis a separate entitiy inside TC. If TC DIes, loses his mind, or succumbs to possession, then He is back. It wont take millenia for that to happen.


Orlion wrote:
Foul is as much a separate entity as Mahrtir is a separate entity from the new Forestal. That is: not really and certainly not long enough. Taking in Foul changed Covenant, and I imagine being a part of Covenant will change Foul to the point where they will become a different being (much like how Brinn and the Theomach became Ak-haru, and so on and so forth.)


I didn't get that from the text. TC explicitly says that Foul is still inside him and the description is clear Foul is still himself. There was no mention of any merging of the two identities, or that TC Changed in any way as a result of the merging, other than gaining knowledge. If they had merged, SRD would have explicitly described the new entity, and I dont think he would fail to do that. So, no, I dont aree. If I'm wrong, please direct me to the reference.
[/quote]

Quote:
5. It was stated repeatedly that the Haruchai NEVER confronted Foul. Sure they did" Korik, Sill and Doar did so in TIW, under the influence of the Illearth Stone. (Note to self: Don't get stoned and try to confront Evil...)


Orlion wrote:
It is stated they did not do so with Covenant. Bannor did not join Covenant the first time, Cail did not join him the second time. This is the first time a Haruchai has been with Covenant when he has faced off with Foul.



If it said that they hadn't faced Foul with Covenant, then, of course, you are correct. I didnt pick up on that.

Quote:
6. TC and Linden both entered ceasures, but how come every time they do it again, its a gigantic deal and theyll all almost surely die? It was done to death.


Orlion wrote:
A deadly threat/risk is a deadly threat/risk no matter how often you do it. It'd be silly if the ceasures ceased to be threatening..


Meh. The first time it was awesome. But it gets old, and it became too convenient.

Quote:
7. TC has had the Krill and Gold ring before in 2C, but suddenly, with a few minutes of reasoning, and Poof! he can translate himself and his company across tens of leagues. Pretty convenient. too convenient.


Orlion wrote:
It's not really Poof! when it drains him and he needs someone to carry him every time after the first time and still needs someone like the Ranyhyn or Haruchai to point him in the right direction. It also never occured to him to try something like that in the 2C... he did not need to, the World was not about to end if he did not travel several hundred miles in a half hour.


What I dont buy is that all it takes him to figure it out is a few sentances of "Well, lets see, I wonder how I could travel really far, really fast with this here ring and blade" and then all of the sudden, with one shot, he figures out something very specific. It doesnt matter at all to the explanation that it tires him out or drains him. The knowledge itself was just way too contrived. Its too easy, too convenient. Maybe it would have been better if some conversation between Linden and Covenant clued him in to an idea, or perhaps his own experience in a ceasure gave him some insight.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've got to throw in with iQuestor on this. The book was thin at just about every level [exept the one it should have been] and I believe all the points he raises would be fair game in the GI.

SRD gave me the impression of being tired with his creation by the end of this book. The plot had become almost formulaic in it's resolution and you got the impression that the author just wanted to 'get the **** out of Dodge' and be done with it [I mean - a rainbow in the final scene - for Gods sake. TC was a rapist in book one and he's Judy bloody Garland at the end!]
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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The Elohim are Earthpower Incarnate. Don't you think that they would have known if the Worm got full they would have the ability to put it to sleep? Is it possible that they Didn't know this, but knew everything else about the worm? Sorry, no. The Elohim were terrified of the WOrm because they were its food. If there was the remote possibility that the Worm could be returned to slumber, they would know and plan for this. However, There was NO explanation for their sudden knowledge. So therefore it seemed very contrived.


It took me a while, but I've found a reference from TOT that may help shed some light on this point.

TOT Chapter 4 "The Nicor of the Deep:

Quote:
Yet the devoured stars were beings as unlike to us as gods, and no Worm or doom could consume their power without cost. Having fed hugely, the Worm became listless and gravid. Though it could not sleep, for the eon's end of its slumber had not come, it felt a whelming desire for rest. Therefor it curled its tail about itself and sank into quiescence.

And while the Worm rested, the power of the stars wrought within it. From its skin grew excrescences of stone and soil, water and air, and these growths multiplied upon themselves and multiplied until the very Earth beneath our feet took form. Still the power of the stars wrought, for now it gave shape to the surface of the Earth, forging the seas and the land. And then was brought forth life upon the Earth. Thus were born all the peoples of the Earth, the beasts of the land, the creatures of the deep - all the forests and greenswards from pole to pole. And thus from destruction came forth creation, as death gives rise to life."


So it seems that after consuming the Sun and stars, various Elohim, and drinking the Earthblood, the Worm was sleepy again and the surviving Elohim worked with the consumed Elohim and put it to sleep again.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iQuestor wrote:

Do you have kids? I do. While I understand Roger was taken away from him by Joan, he was still his Son. During the 10 years between C1 and C2, Covenant wouldve or should've tried to contact him if he was any kind of human being, especially one with such a focus on right/wrong and responsibility as TC has always shown. Not having much to do with a son isnt the same as being completely aloof and not even flinching when he is killed right in front of you. Readers should be able to empathize with characters, and TC's complete lack of a bond with Roger jars me out of the story because as a parent, it's hard to accept.

I know people who have had kids taken by estranged spouses and dont see them for decades. But there is something there simply because its their child. As a Father I cannot accept TC would be completely aloof to Roger.


It happens more often than you might think. The most plausible explanation is "Joan had a restraining order preventing Covenant from being able to see their son" but in my previous relationship my ex-wife's son was never contacted by his biological father even though he had plenty of opportunity. Forming a relationship with his own child simply wasn't important enough to him.

iQuestor wrote:

Where did you get the idea She had a huge grievance against Foul? From the text we have exactly NO viewpoint on SHMNBN. AFAIK, we don't know what her relationship or attitude was toward Foul. I don't remember ever reading anything that suggested her opinion or position toward Foul.
If I have missed this in the text, please point it out to me.

We could argue Linden whispered to her as they were doing whatever it was before they dropped into Mt Thunder, "Hey? Wanna do me a favor and sucker Punch this guy whose been giving me trouble?" but then, SRD would have, or should have explained that. But its never explained, or mentioned.

ALso, Foul is a lot stronger than any Bane or being, so why should She be able to knock him flat? because he got stuck with a blade fashioned by Loric? Nope.


Although not expressly stated, we are supposed to understand that She is, for lack of any better name, Diassomer whom A-Jeroth lured out of Eternity into the world, leaving her bereft. I don't disagree--this seems a little weak but just because we have no hint of She other than one name in one song in TWL doesn't mean that it isn't internally consistent with itself.
As a being of equal footing with Foul, she has the power to slap him down on her way out the door.


iQuestor wrote:
3. How is it that the Elohim didnt know how to put the worm back to sleep, and the, all of the sudden, they did?


Orlion wrote:
It's the difference between the Worm being ravenous and devouring Elohim and the Worm being sated with Earthblood. That'd be like turkey legs trying to get Grandpa to go to sleep before Thanksgiving dinner: it's just not going to happen before they get devoured.


I'll have to go with Orlion on this one. The Worm did its job like it was supposed to do--it drank Earthblood and dissolved the fabric of the world. It isn't the Worm's fault that some people went along behind him and rewove the fabric using a combination of wild magic, percipience, and Law. Once done, the Worm went back to its default state of slumber and thus the Elohim went back to their usual state of babysitters.

iQuestor wrote:
4. How is this ending in any sense "more enduring" that WGW? After WGW he needed millenia to come back. Currently, Foul sis a separate entitiy inside TC. If TC DIes, loses his mind, or succumbs to possession, then He is back. It wont take millenia for that to happen.


I didn't get that from the text. TC explicitly says that Foul is still inside him and the description is clear Foul is still himself. There was no mention of any merging of the two identities, or that TC Changed in any way as a result of the merging, other than gaining knowledge. If they had merged, SRD would have explicitly described the new entity, and I dont think he would fail to do that. So, no, I dont aree. If I'm wrong, please direct me to the reference.


Covenant is the white gold and white gold is an alloy; from the gold's point of view the other metal (regardless of which one is used) is an impurity but this impurity makes white gold what it is. The method of his previous death allowed him to merge himself with the Arch of Time, thus transforming himself into one part of Creation, the "pure" part. He could not complete his conversion into an alloy until he was brought back to life and merged with the "impure" part of Creation in the form of Foul. He isn't really Covenant anymore, even though that is the dominant personality, and he isn't really Foul anymore--he is the alloy of both. Covenant is now able to complete the removal of the threat to the Land and the Arch by removing Foul and Foul's eternal despair at being trapped in Time is ameliorated by attaining mortality.

It won't be all sunshine and bluebirds from here on because there will still be evil in the world but at least Foul won't be there threatening everything.


iQuestor wrote:
7. TC has had the Krill and Gold ring before in 2C, but suddenly, with a few minutes of reasoning, and Poof! he can translate himself and his company across tens of leagues. Pretty convenient. too convenient.

Orlion wrote:
It's not really Poof! when it drains him and he needs someone to carry him every time after the first time and still needs someone like the Ranyhyn or Haruchai to point him in the right direction. It also never occured to him to try something like that in the 2C... he did not need to, the World was not about to end if he did not travel several hundred miles in a half hour.


What I dont buy is that all it takes him to figure it out is a few sentances of "Well, lets see, I wonder how I could travel really far, really fast with this here ring and blade" and then all of the sudden, with one shot, he figures out something very specific. It doesnt matter at all to the explanation that it tires him out or drains him. The knowledge itself was just way too contrived. Its too easy, too convenient. Maybe it would have been better if some conversation between Linden and Covenant clued him in to an idea, or perhaps his own experience in a ceasure gave him some insight.


Sometimes realizations like this simply happen, usually once we realize that something we previously thought impossible is, in fact, possible. A change in perspective can do wonders.

Sure, TLD has its weak points as all novels do. However, that will detract from your enjoyment in reading it only if you let it.

It is always easy to criticize someone else's work and say "I would have done x differently" or "it would make more sense if they had explained it this other way" but they were the one doing the writing. My advice is the same as I give to those who criticize everything wrong with a movie--if you dislike it so much then write your own and work to get it published.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DLB -- Thanks for finding that passage from TOT!
If that creation myth is taken at face value, it might even suggest TC and Linden rebuilt the world *on top* of the now-sleeping worm.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DlbPharmD said:
Quote:

It took me a while, but I've found a reference from TOT that may help shed some light on this point.

TOT Chapter 4 "The Nicor of the Deep: ...


THANKS! As far was the Worm going back to sleep, what DlbPharmD found certainly helps, however if that was SRD's intention, he might have made it more clear. Its not really an adequate explanation as this time; the Worm was showing no signs of stopping, and many, many less stars had been devoured, and the entire world had not been destroyed. The Elohim should have and would have known that they would be able to return the worm to its slumber if it were possible. However it could be that the Elohim didnt take into account that this time TC, Linden and Jeremiah would be able to return the world and all its denizens back to the former state, and all would not be destroyed; that knowledge would have made a difference. We could surmise many reasons, however my point is SRD left this bit hanging very loosely.

As far as TC not being able to bond with Roger, Its still jarring; What kind of Monster watches his son die violently and feel absolutely nothing, no matter what their relationship was, or was not. Roger was way too one dimensional, and never really brought anything but a cheap foil to the story.

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:

It is always easy to criticize someone else's work and say "I would have done x differently" or "it would make more sense if they had explained it this other way" but they were the one doing the writing. My advice is the same as I give to those who criticize everything wrong with a movie--if you dislike it so much then write your own and work to get it published.[/color]


I'm not looking for your "advice" on my position; This forum is for discussing the book, and the reasons I gave for disliking certain portions of TLD are my opinion of the book. Yours may be different, and I certainly respect that, and I certainly do not condign to give you "advice" based on your position.

SRD is very capable of much better writing quality than he did in TLD (or the third chrons entirely), and the opinions I have expressed here have been echoed by many others, just take a look around. Many here express the opinion that TLD felt rushed, that it seemed evident SRD was plain ready to finish the series, and left a lot of things unexplained, or very weakly explained.

Advising someone who is critical of a movie or a book that they can go off and write their own is offensive, and ridiculous. I cannot design a car, but I can tell whether one handles well, or badly, because I have been driving for 38 years and I am an expert.

I can say the same for reading. I have read much and read widely, and am formally educated in writing and literature. I have been reading since I was very young. I have also written quite a lot. I have read the Chrons literally a dozen times. So despite your need to give out "advice", I am very well qualified to share my critical opinions of TLD here on this forum, as is everyone else who is a member here.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iQuestor wrote:

Advising someone who is critical of a movie or a book that they can go off and write their own is offensive


This is true only if you choose to be offended.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
iQuestor wrote:

Advising someone who is critical of a movie or a book that they can go off and write their own is offensive


This is true only if you choose to be offended.


sorry, no. it's rude.
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