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Why not a cartoon?

 
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TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:48 pm    Post subject: Why not a cartoon? Reply with quote

If nobody can make a Thomas Covenant movie, then why not a cartoon version?
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems with the animation and CGI used in Gravity, and it being so real, and some of the other stuff, that a realistic cartoon would certainly work...but that doesn't overcome internalized storyline issues or the length of the movies to do the story justice...
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rdhopeca wrote:
Seems with the animation and CGI used in Gravity, and it being so real, and some of the other stuff, that a realistic cartoon would certainly work...but that doesn't overcome internalized storyline issues or the length of the movies to do the story justice...


Dune was at least if not more complex. And then they made Children of Dune into a mini-series.

edit - Dune also dealt with the problem of translating internal dialogue into a movie.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd wrote:
rdhopeca wrote:
Seems with the animation and CGI used in Gravity, and it being so real, and some of the other stuff, that a realistic cartoon would certainly work...but that doesn't overcome internalized storyline issues or the length of the movies to do the story justice...


Dune was at least if not more complex. And then they made Children of Dune into a mini-series.

edit - Dune also dealt with the problem of translating internal dialogue into a movie.


Dune (the movie) did nothing for me. Exactly what I would hope to avoid. I am unaware of a Dune cartoon if it exists...
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rdhopeca wrote:
TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd wrote:
rdhopeca wrote:
Seems with the animation and CGI used in Gravity, and it being so real, and some of the other stuff, that a realistic cartoon would certainly work...but that doesn't overcome internalized storyline issues or the length of the movies to do the story justice...


Dune was at least if not more complex. And then they made Children of Dune into a mini-series.

edit - Dune also dealt with the problem of translating internal dialogue into a movie.


Dune (the movie) did nothing for me. Exactly what I would hope to avoid. I am unaware of a Dune cartoon if it exists...


There are two Dune movies and the Children of Dune mini-series. The latter was really good.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd wrote:

There are two Dune movies and the Children of Dune mini-series. The latter was really good.


Are you calling the Syfy 3-parter [the one with what-is-face...dammit...just a second....William Hurt] a movie? or is there another film I'm unaware of?

I know there are some Dune comics out there, a few issues anyway...I think at least one done by Marvel...but I also think they were based on the Lynch film version...

An animated/CGI version...it solves some problems. But as Rhod points out, doesn't solve others.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vraith wrote:
TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd wrote:

There are two Dune movies and the Children of Dune mini-series. The latter was really good.


Are you calling the Syfy 3-parter [the one with what-is-face...dammit...just a second....William Hurt] a movie? or is there another film I'm unaware of?

I know there are some Dune comics out there, a few issues anyway...I think at least one done by Marvel...but I also think they were based on the Lynch film version...

An animated/CGI version...it solves some problems. But as Rhod points out, doesn't solve others.


The SyFy Dune may have been a movie or a mini-series, it's been a long time since I've seen it. The only issue I see with making TC into a movie is length, not complexity. Obviously the story-line would have to be cut way back, and would lack some fundamental elements that wouldn't be palatable to the average movie-goer anyway. Cut out the leprosy part.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dune miniseries http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0142032/
Children of Dune miniseries http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0287839/

As for on topic - I think both moves and cartoons are quite valid options to try, and either can end up well or not, it depends on things quite different from this. Perhaps a cartoon with multiple episodes can keep more of the text and the plot, that's good, but still it will be much a question of the script and somewhat of the visual depictions.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me nothing short of a big budget live action film will do the Chronicles justice IMHO. An acceptable second choice would be an HBO or SHOWTIME series ala Game of Thrones. I would watch an animated feature however I doubt it would be very popular or profitable.
Again IMHO. I'm willing to be surprised and delighted if such a project were attempted.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I, for one, disagree completely that the Chronicles is too "internal" to be made into a movie.

Certainly Dune had that issue. If you read Dune, the majority of the story is internal dialog. (Maybe "internal monologue" is a more apt description.) Excising that internal dialog, nothing remains to inform the audience what is at stake, why choices are made, or what motivates characters.

The Chronicles isn't like that, in my opinion. Everything that's internal to Covenant can be expressed externally ... because the story is written to do exactly that! Everything that happens internally is expressed externally.

Unlike Dune, there's only one character with "occult" motivations - Covenant. And he does a thorough job of wearing his heart on his sleeve. He's dealing with people who don't understand him, and he doesn't hold back explaining himself to them. And he's sufficiently "real" that we can follow his thinking based on sufficient clues, and we can experience the same wonders and griefs as he experiences them.

The hardest point to get across to the audience would be the notion that lepers fear dreams because dreams kill lepers. But Covenant comes right out and explains this, out loud, at several times.

"Mhoram! It's suicide! You're asking me to go crazy!"

"By the Seven! You fear power more than weakness."

"Now listen to me. Listen hard. I'm going to try to explain this so you can understand. ... "This Land is suicide to me."


The challenge ... and the extraordinary significance ... of this story is conveying that. It's not a limitation ... it's the essence ... it's the reason you're telling the story at all. And it can be done.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayfriend wrote:
I, for one, disagree completely that the Chronicles is too "internal" to be made into a movie.

Certainly Dune had that issue. If you read Dune, the majority of the story is internal dialog. (Maybe "internal monologue" is a more apt description.) Excising that internal dialog, nothing remains to inform the audience what is at stake, why choices are made, or what motivates characters.

The Chronicles isn't like that, in my opinion. Everything that's internal to Covenant can be expressed externally ... because the story is written to do exactly that! Everything that happens internally is expressed externally.

Unlike Dune, there's only one character with "occult" motivations - Covenant. And he does a thorough job of wearing his heart on his sleeve. He's dealing with people who don't understand him, and he doesn't hold back explaining himself to them. And he's sufficiently "real" that we can follow his thinking based on sufficient clues, and we can experience the same wonders and griefs as he experiences them.

The hardest point to get across to the audience would be the notion that lepers fear dreams because dreams kill lepers. But Covenant comes right out and explains this, out loud, at several times.

"Mhoram! It's suicide! You're asking me to go crazy!"

"By the Seven! You fear power more than weakness."

"Now listen to me. Listen hard. I'm going to try to explain this so you can understand. ... "This Land is suicide to me."


The challenge ... and the extraordinary significance ... of this story is conveying that. It's not a limitation ... it's the essence ... it's the reason you're telling the story at all. And it can be done.


WF totally agree. Would love to see the movie made.

If I ever make it big, Im gonna fund it myself. Smile
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know you are, iQuestor. And I am going to come work for you when you do and be your lackey and everything. Smile
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One word: Miyazaki. Too bad he's retiring, but Studio Ghibli is nearly as good.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would love to see this as a movie. What about a series on TV if not a movie? They could run it for 3 years, one for each trilogy.
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