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The Last Dark, Part II Chapter 2 - Toward Confrontation

 
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 8:53 pm    Post subject: The Last Dark, Part II Chapter 2 - Toward Confrontation Reply with quote

The Last Dark, Part II Chapter 2

Toward Confrontation

Linden Avery is reflecting that being thrown through space and time by wild magic is disorienting enough that even being transported as she has been by caesures, croyel, Insequent, and Forestal can't prepare her for the experience. Caught up in power-propelled dizziness, Linden is unable to notice her own ring is alight in response to Covenant's use of power with the krill and his own ring. The company comes out running onto a dry-soiled wide depression bottom. They slow down as Branl deftly steadies Covenant and takes the krill from him. Linden's health-sense determines that an hour has gone by.

Jeremiah wonders about their location as he prepares to dismount from Khelen. Linden notices there are stretches of rough-edged, mostly grey grass, and a memory returns to warn her.

Quote:
Long ago, days or lifetimes in the past, Anele had stood on grass outside Mithil Stonedown. In a rancid voice, he had said, There is more, but of my deeper purpose I will not speak.
On grass that resembled this.


Linden yells, "No!", and Stave catches Jeremiah and hoists him back onto Khelen. Jeremiah wants to know what the problem is, and Stave observes to Linden: "This grass is of another kind. That which cloaks the hills about Mithil Stonedown grows more thickly, and remains shorter." Jeremiah insists on an explanation. Linden apologizes and explains that she fears Lord Foul will take possession of Jeremiah as he did Anele if Jer dares to set foot on that grass.

(I have wondered why this grass has affinity for Lord Foul's possessive efforts: is the fact this grass is more grey than green make it more useful to the one the people of the Land once called the Grey Slayer? Is the grass more utilizable to someone the Ramen still call Fangthane, because it has small fang-like sawing edges? I don't think enough textual evidence exists to settle these questions.)

Linden further explains to Jeremiah that Anele was practiced at masking himself during possession but that Jeremiah might be forced into a dissociation from which he can't return. Jeremiah protests it doesn't make sense, as he stood on grass when they were by the Sarangrave, and nothing happened. LA says it may be the wrong kind of grass, there. Jeremiah's expression darkens and he states he doesn't care and let Lord Foul try to possess him. Stung by Jeremiah's attitude, Linden cautions him not to rush into an encounter with the Despiser. He says, "Fine", snorts, and keeps his head turned away from her.

Covenant steers Mishio Massima closer to Linden and comments that this translation through space and time using wild magic was easier than prior such translations, adding that he believes Linden helped him this time, consciously or not. Then he asks, "Can you see the stars? My eyes aren't that good anymore." The Giants start relaxing as they understand the thrust of Covenant's question: the stars haven't continued to die, so therefore Mahrtiir continues to be successful in forbidding the Worm from Jeremiah's fane. Covenant wishes Linden to realize she deserves some credit for Caerwood ur-Mahrtiir's victory. Linden suggests they can discuss their plans while she and Jeremiah eat. Covenant mutters agreement.

In response to a question from TC, Branl states the last translation has brought them at least 20 leagues in a generally westward direction from where Mahrtiir protects the fane, and that the Worm's storm cannot be discerned from here. Branl consults with Stave and asserts that slightly more than an hour has been lost. The Giants concur. Covenant then observes the Worm will move on towards Melenkurion Skyweir when it realizes it can't get past Caerwood ur-Mahrtiir's to reach the fane. It should move faster as it gets closer to the Skyweir.

But Covenant confidently states they can move faster now with the wild magic. Lord Foul is in Mount Thunder, and Covenant proposes they approach him rather than follow the Worm. Rime Coldspray objects that Mount Thunder is dangerous with not only the Despiser, but with its proximity to She Who Must Not Be Named. She further voices concern that the Worm cannot be opposed if no attempt is made to stop it.

Quote:
"Well," Covenant said gruffly. For a moment, he appeared to wrestle with himself. Then he announced with an air of defiance, "I disagree.

"I won't try to make your decisions for you. Even Linden and Jeremiah--you all have to do what you think is right. But I'm going to Mount Thunder. I have to try to stop Lord Foul. And I need you with me. I need you all.

"It's not just that I have no earthly idea what to do about the Worm. That thing is part of the created world. It's inherent to the way this world works. There isn't enough power anywhere to get in its way. But on top of that, I think the Despiser is more important. He's absolutely more important to me." Passion mounted in him. He did not raise his voice, but it thrummed with intensity nonetheless, with the authority of earned conviction. His whole body seemed to imply imminent wild magic. "Ever since I first came here--ever since he and the Creator picked me--my life has been about Lord Foul. He scares me worse than any ordinary death, even if the people I love most are the ones who do the dying. I have to face that. I have to do something about it.

"Sure, if we stop the Worm, Foul would be stuck in his prison. But we can't, and he won't. Think about that. Think about setting Despite loose in eternity, where it can pollute every new creation just like it's polluted this one. That's bad enough. Hellfire, that's bad enough! But it could become even worse. If he gets his hands on Jeremiah, he'll try to trade places with the Creator. He'll try to make a prison that will put an end to the very possibility of creation. He'll wipe out everything that has ever lived, everything that ever might live, every conceivable world.

"If he can do that, eternity will become the kind of wasteland we've only seen in caesures. Then there won't be anything anywhere ever again. Nothing except scorn until even Lord Foul's heart breaks."


Jeremiah inquires, "So your solution is to take me closer to him?" Covenant responds that Lord Foul could take Jeremiah any place. "All he needs is the right kind of grass and one mistake." TC turns to LA and explains that he doesn't think they can stop the Worm but that two white gold rings, the Staff of Law, Jeremiah's talent and proven friends should be effective against the Despiser. Covenant remarks that they shouldn't enter Mount Thunder from the Upper Land through Treacher's Gorge, because they would be expected by LF to enter that way. His idea is to move toward Kiril Threndor ascending on the path of the Defiles Course, of all the dangerous-sounding routes to choose..

Branl's quick reaction: "The waters are corrupt," The Unbeliever replies the waters are surely receded since the Soulsease started pouring into the Lost Deep. Branl warns the air will be poisonous. TC dismisses this by noting they have the Staff of Law to purify the air. He argues the lurker can aid them from the Lower Land's side of Mt. Thunder, and that they're taking advantage of the Ardent's proclamation that Linden's fate is "writ in water" by going that way. Branl observes that if Pahni and Bhapa manage to persuade the Masters to come to their aid, that aid will be on the wrong side of the mountain. But Covenant points out with skurj and Sandgorgons to bar the Masters' way at Treacher's Gorge, it would be better for the Masters' well-being if Pahni and Bhapa fail to convince them to fight. Jeremiah and then Linden agree to enter Mt. Thunder through the Course. Linden reflects on Berek's warning in Andelain that Lord Foul may only be freed by one who is compelled by rage, and contemptuous of consequence. She fears he was describing Jeremiah, or saw danger in Jeremiah, Covenant, or herself.

They travel forward by wild magic, arriving at the ravine with a sand-banked stream in the middle and weathered hills on both sides. It occurs to Linden that the Ranyhyn must have selected this place to arrive from the general directions Covenant's power was aimed, as it turns out this is the place where the Ardent had fed them--near the gypsum ridge where Liand, Anele, and Galt are buried. Covenant nearly falls from his seat on Mishio Massima to stumble over the ground with vertiginous clumsiness, but as he regains his balance he declares to the Giants that they appear to need a bath. He adds it's obvious he needs one by his smell, and invites Jeremiah to join him in a cleansing swim. Jeremiah dismounts Khelen and goes along with this. Latebirth, Bluntfist, and other Giants start joking about their respective body odors. Frostheart Grueburn doesn't join in with this, but instead walks toward Linden (still on Hyn) until she is standing by her.

Quote:
In contrast to her comrades, Grueburn looked grave, almost somber. Softly she said, "Linden Giantfriend, perhaps you will consent to speak with me apart from these coistrels. A matter weighs upon my heart. You will do a kindness if you allow me to unburden it."
"All right." Linden's clothes were still clean, scrubbed by the benison of Caerroil Wildwood's power. Even her hair was clean. And she welcomed any distraction from herself. "Let's talk."
As she slipped down from Hyn's back, Stave and Branl also dismounted. At once, the four Ranyhyn turned away from the stream and followed the ravine, taking Covenant's steed with them.


Grueburn indicates they follow the direction the equines took, Linden asks Stave to watch Jeremiah. Stave states Branl is doing just that, and Linden sees Jeremiah and Branl going along with Covenant. She asks Grueburn if she minds Stave's companionship, and Frostheart replies, "Stave Rockbrother's companionship is welcome at all times." Grueburn leads Linden and Stave some Giant's-stride distance higher up the ravine from everybody else, stops, and with a disturbed air she admits to LA & the Rockbrother she doesn't know how to say what's worrying her. Linden encourages her, and FG then assures her that being a Giant will enable her to find a way to speak of it.

Quote:
Finally Grueburn began. "Some days past, while we traveled together after the Timewarden had parted from us, I chanced to stand with you while you and Stave Rockbrother spoke. Together you considered questions of Desecration."
Like a slap of wind, Stave observed, "Our words were intended for each other alone, Frostheart Grueburn."
"Yet I heard them. From that time to this, I have respected that they were not for me. Nevertheless my thoughts have turned often to matters of Desecration."


Linden dreads discussing this. Grueburn assures Stave that she just wants to air her concern, which apparently contents Stave. Grueburn then comments that there seems to be some fresh pessimistic vibration around the Doctor, and admits to being disquieted about it.

Quote:
"Ah, now, Linden Giantfriend, some new darkness hovers in you[...]Chiefly I fear that you sail a course which leads to the Desecration of yourself. To my sight, it appears that you confront an impossible conundrum."


Grueburn thinks part of Dr. Avery's problem is she can't totally protect Jeremiah or anyone else, and that this will have fearful effects upon the Chosen. Linden remembers the Swordmainnir, her friends, have everything to lose, so she opens up that she must face her own worst fear, a fear that's beyond what she feels about Lord Foul, the Worm, or her loved ones dying.

Quote:
"My worst fear"--this was as close as she could come to complete honesty--"is that there may actually be something I could do, and I won't be brave enough to do it."


Linden feels an uncomfortable empathy with Kevin Landwaster, and recalls how she's long believed that letting severe pain continue is worse than Desecration. She doubts she possesses the ability to find or face a solution to ending the pain of Despite that doesn't trigger Desecration.

Quote:
For a time, Frostheart Grueburn and Stave answered her with silence. What could they have said? She was who she was. Her fears were her own. But then Stave said like a man who had never known a moment's doubt, "It is written in water, Linden. Deeds are not stones. Fears are not. And even stone may fail. No outcome is certain."
Before Linden could think of a response, Grueburn began to chuckle. "Well said, Stave Rockbrother. As ever, Linden Giantfriend misesteems herself. She has restored joy to my ears, though she does not hear it."
Then she added, "Accept my thanks, Linden Giantfriend. You have comforted me. I regret only that you are not likewise comforted."
At once, the woman turned away. Perhaps she sensed that Linden wanted to be alone; that Linden needed time to accept what she had heard and said. Still chuckling, Grueburn went to rejoin her comrades. But Stave remained.
He said nothing further. For that, Linden was grateful. His presence was enough to remind her that she was not alone. No other answer would suffice unless she found it for herself.


(Linden's answer comforts Frostheart Grueburn, but why? My guess is because Linden demonstrates by her answer that she's determined to be responsible for herself, and has realized that she must set aside responsibility for what others in her company might have to face. And neither Stave nor Frostheart doubts that the Chosen has the courage to do what must be done, once she's figured out what action is needed.)

While waiting with Stave until she's convinced she's ready to rejoin the company, Linden feels a gratifying impression from the heavens. Cool

Quote:
While the stars were dying, they had called to her nerves like keening; like bright supplications. But now they were not vanishing from the heavens. Perhaps as a result, they looked less forlorn to her. They seemed to gaze down almost hopefully as if they had found something to believe in.


Heading back to rejoin the company,Linden and Stave are met by a dripping-wet Covenant, recently emerged from the creek. The ur-Lord apologizes to his wife, as he feels he has offended her with his suggested course of action. Linden observes Thomas hasn't said what she or the rest of the group should be doing. The twice-proven Illender says he knows that, but the only things clear to him are that he must face Foul and that Foul doesn't desire him, LA and Jerry together in opposition to him. Linden protests this is not enough of an answer, so in a harder voice Thomas reminds her they didn't start this, they didn't choose their circumstances. It only matters how they choose to respond. If their responses aren't good enough to save the world, then the Creator can sweat the consequences. TC draws in LA to kiss, and she responds by kissing back, once she's realized he's given her all the answers he's got.

It becomes apparent to the Chosen that Jeremiah is not present with the company. Linden asks Stave where the Chosen-son is; she reminds him of his promise that Branl would watch over him.

Quote:
"He does so," Stave nodded stolidly toward the shining on the rise beyond Linden. "The Chosen-son parted from the company to wend upstream. Branl followed at a slight distance. He does not neglect his charge:"
Linden flung a glance at Covenant; but he shook his head. "He didn't say anything. I tried to get him talking, but he had too much on his mind."
If something had happened to her son, she would have felt it. Surely she would have felt it?
"Beyond the hillside," Stave continued," the boy has discovered a stretch of grass among sheltered stones. It bears some resemblance that which Anele had cause to fear. There he stands, offering demands and imprecations. For that reason, Branl does not intervene.
"It appears first that your son does not partake of the vulnerability or flaw which exposed Anele to Corruption. We conclude that the boy has inherited only Anele's openness to Kastenessen--a peril which no longer threatens him. His wish to encounter evil is foolhardy, but it does not endanger him."
"Or," Linden countered over her shoulder, "Lord Foul just hasn't taken advantage of it yet."
She was already running.


Linden ascends the nearby slope Stave has indicated as the location of Jeremiah and Branl, with Stave following closely and TC, Rime Coldspray, and Frostheart Grueburn not far behind Stave. Reaching the slope's crest, they all see that Branl is standing there, the white light of the krill in his eyes. Jeremiah is standing on a clump of grey-green grass which has saw-like edges, and he's facing away from his mother. Nothing appears to be happening, so Linden tells him, "Jeremiah, honey. That's enough. You tried. You can stop now."

Quote:
Without warning, a silent shock jolted the hills. For one small splinter of time, the world's Laws seemed to pause. Linden's heart did not beat. Her lungs did not stretch for air. The stream hesitated in its course, poised and motionless. Stave became one more stone in the hollow. Covenant hung between one downward step and the next. Coldspray and Grueburn froze.
Then a second shock released the hollow. Linden's pulse hit like a blow on an anvil. Covenant lurched for balance. Stave readied himself.
Instantly the air became attar, thick as the smoke of burning flesh, cloying as an inferno of incense. The heavens leaned down on Linden as if they had become lead. Even Stave flinched. Coldspray or Grueburn stumbled. One of them caught Covenant. Branl started downward with the krill raised.
In Lord Foul's voice, Jeremiah announced like a grinding millstone, "It may interest you to know, fools and servants, that your ploy has achieved its purpose. Your edifice stands, a worthy emblem of your wish to oppose me. Yet even there, your deeds work against you. Deprived of Elohim, the Worm hastens onward. It hastens, fools! The hour of my many triumphs approaches. You cannot thwart it."
"Branl!" Covenant gasped. "The krill. Give me the krill!"
The Despiser and Jeremiah ignored him. They spoke only to Linden.
"Nonetheless," the crushing voice continued, "this callow whelp thinks to challenge me. Me! As guerdon for his puerile valor, I have given him a gift which will make him wise in the subtleties of despair. When I have need of him, I will claim him, and no endeavor of yours will suffice to redeem him."
If your son serves me, he will do so in your presence.
"And you, frail woman--" Lord Foul's mirth filled the vale. "You have become the daughter of my heart. In you, I am well pleased. Ere the end, you also will serve me.
"Thus all things conduce to my desires."
Covenant snatched the dagger from Branl. "Is that what you think, Foul?" Have you forgotten what we can do to you? Have you forgotten we're coming for you?"
"Forgotten, wretch?" retorted the Despiser, bitter and gleeful. "I rely upon it. I forget nothing. I am prepared for you. If you think to confront me, you will discover that your efforts harm only yourself."


Covenant moves toward Foul/Jeremiah holding Loric's gleaming knife (and what he hoped to accomplish by such an act, I have no idea Confused). Linden blocks his path, and uses the Staff of Law and her percipience to exorcise Fangthane from her son. Jeremiah drops and the Sun-Sage leaves the Staff to run to him.

Quote:
"Mom," he croaked. "Oh, Mom. I can feel the Worm. I can feel it. It's going up a cliff. A cliff! And it's going fast. Like the cliff was nothing."
The Despiser's gift.
Shivers that began in the marrow of Jeremiah's bones spread through him. Linden hugged him tightly, but could not still his trembling.
Lord Foul had taught her son to fear him.


(And my fear when I first read this was that Lord Foul now knows their location.) Lord Foul in Disguise
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice adept dissect of the chapter Cord...

Toward Confrontation..hhmm..Right out of current headlines: the " survivalist" eluding the police in the woods of north eastern Pennsylvania. Eric Frein had been spotted as close as approximately 100 yards but somehow remains on the run . free, from capture. He possibly " hunted' a State Police officer and shot him dead .

Now, he remains well camouflaged, blended into a environment, surviving, an existence his trackers are not accustomed to on a 24/7 basis as apparently Mr Frein prepared himself for. His trackers need to read this chapter.

TC makes it clear...he must do this. Hope Must Go After Despair....Foul is gonna wish he was in a simple Stallone movie...

The author does some nice camo work here. ..as Cord points out.." thrown through space and time by wild magic..."..How the author can seriously deny ever hearing or knowing of Andre Breton with camo grease paint smeared all over his face by lines like that,,a chapter like this,,a freekin book like this,,a series Like This,,the whole of The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant,,as it IS..just kind of proves how much of an Surreal Expression these Chronicles have been. Forest for the Trees...indeed.
Power propelled dizziness..reflexive evasion of linear time..being reincarnated as much as translocated..blinded, but saw everything at once..simply went blank..on and on..almost Every line in the opening paragraphs of this chapter..describes having a " Surreal " experience; toward an experience above,,beyond, other,,than the comfort zone mundane existence. ..."Covenant Lurched In His Saddle".........My personal physical sign of becoming a Surreal existence..is a spot of nausea a tad above the belly button..It use to be much larger, but thru experience..the " feeling" the " sign" is still there , as I'm having now.. just much smaller than original..........Not to worry, as the company goes..you get use it. The Company relaxes, gets their footing under themselves.." Oh WOW, how did he do that? Where are we?"..We are where the grass blades are grey, not black..not white, not green, ,not the definitive of extreme, but grey..infinite shades created from the infinite possible mixes of black and white. And yes...at least One of those possibilities includes Lord Foul's School of Machinations and Boulder Mastications. Elsewhere I've already gone off on the fantastic " The laughter of broken rocks..."..Yeaa..Jerry still needs to find his way out of the woods of immaturity..He needs to get the " compassion" that will give him the " sight" to ..delineate one shade of grey from another..pick out a Eric Frein from a oak, at a 100 yards away. As Linden notes.." If Jeremiah thought that anger and bitterness would preserve him, he was wrong."



So....every one stinks..Here we go with the water symbol,,metaphor..cleansing change..Wash off the old stench, start afresh. Neat how Linden has already done the Dial btw of Wildwood..hhhmmm..maybe another item for the Store there....a new line of ...Scents...The Thomas Covenant..Krill Body Wash..will cover even the seepage of leprosy..or the Linden Avery perfume...Essence of Wildwood...Wandering Green Grass....and even for those who must...a very ...very..thin...Foul's Attar...okay, maybe like lime, some kind of incense you would only burn in a outhouse...beauty. See what happens when you go surreal?..fun.

And at the heart of all this ..change..realizing other choices,,other realities,cleansing.. above and beyond the comfort zone of the Mundane..is..." My worst fear- is that there may actually be something I could do, and won't be brave enough to do it."...All the implications, innuendo, suggestions, insinuations, associations, connections....of " brave", being Brave, Being Brave Enough..yea..well.. finding metaphor in everything..be brave enough to to do it. Doing so is an act of Love. To Love is an act of Bravery. What Grue realizes is...for Linden to even be honest and open enough to say those words..understand those words...repeat those words..is a Love in its self..a Joy to hear ,,a comfort to the nausea. That Bravery ,is Toward Confrontation. To know those words,,is all we have against the despair of the Mundane. Jerry will be alrite. Eric Frein's days are numbered.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bathing Giantesses in this chapter!! Beware for an obscure Insequent hight Hashi lurking among the upthrusting rocks! At least a sight less scary than the ouroboros horses devouring their own tails in the last chapter...

Cord Hurn wrote:
wide depression bottom


While reading this in a state of tiredness, my brain’s foot sunk into a bog of synonymity and could not unfasten itself for a while.

Cord Hurn wrote:
I have wondered why this grass has affinity for Lord Foul's possessive efforts: is the fact this grass is more grey than green make it more useful to the one the people of the Land once called the Grey Slayer? Is the grass more utilizable to someone the Ramen still call Fangthane, because it has small fang-like sawing edges? I don't think enough textual evidence exists to settle these questions.


Mmh. A cornucopia of conundrums, here. Foul’s associated with serpentine features (eyes like fangs besides Fangthane); most likely the resident Chronicles Scholar will supply an accurate answer to this. However, remember that in the 1st chrons, Covenant felt Foul’s wrongness through the soil/grass (my memory’s a wee bit vague here…) as well.


Cord Hurn wrote:
Linden's answer comforts Frostheart Grueburn, but why? My guess is because Linden demonstrates by her answer that she's determined to be responsible for herself, and has realized that she must set aside responsibility for what others in her company might have to face. And neither Stave nor Frostheart doubts that the Chosen has the courage to do what must be done, once she's figured out what action is needed.


Calling the fantasy namesake “Frosty” sounds moronic, so I will settle for Grueburn. Razz Ah, the annoyances of adopting a canon character name! Anyhow, I would deem Linden’s honesty provides an surplus kilo of comfort in addition to the entire bearing of her own responsibilities.

What struck me as interesting was Grueburn’s love-confession to Linden. Obviously not amatory, but sisterly. Has any other Land-character disclosed such feelings to a beyondworld personage? We ken the degree of Liand and Stave’s devotedness, but must one be a Giant to weave it into words?
I believe on basis of this TheFallen suggested her name represents a form of Giantish irony à lá Bluff Stoutgirth.

Quote:
“Toward you, I feel more than friendship. Amid the perils of the Lost Deep, and at other times, I have cared for you, as you know. For that reason among many other, your place in my heart is great.”


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Essence of Wildwood...Wandering Green Grass...


Eau de la sueur d’une géante? Knocks you flat akin to Kindwind after enjoying a barrelful of beans! Instant bestseller!
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lurch wrote:
Now, he remains well camouflaged, blended into a environment, surviving, an existence his trackers are not accustomed to on a 24/7 basis


Interesting that you bring up camouflage, lurch. It reminds me of a few passages from previous Covenant books.

In Lord Foul's Bane, Chapter 3 was wrote:
Over his [Covenant's] silence, the voice continued, "Kevin was a fool--fey, anile and gutless. They are all fools. Look you, groveler. The mighty High Lord Kevin, son of Loric and great-grandson of Berek Lord-Fatherer whom I hate, stood where you now kneel, and he thought to destroy me. He discovered my designs, recognized some measure of my true stature--though the dotard had set me on his right side in the Council for long years without sensing his peril--saw at the last who I was."


In Lord Foul's Bane, Chapter 23 was wrote:
Before the echoes of cheering died--before anyone could move--a new sound broke over them. It started softly, then expanded until it filled the chamber like the collapse of the ceiling. It was laughter--Lord Foul's laughter, throbbing with glee and immitigable hate. Its belittling weight dominated them, buried them in their helplessness; it paralyzed them, seemed to cut them off from their own heartbeats and breathing. While it piled onto them, they were lost.

Even Prothall stood still. Despite his victory, he looked old and feeble, and his eyes had an unfocused stare as if he were gazing into his own coffin. And Covenant, who knew that laugh, could not resist it.

But Lord Mhoram moved. Springing onto the dais, he whirled his staff around his head until the air hummed, and blue lightning bolted upward into the clustered stalactites. "Then show yourself, Despiser!" he shouted. "If you are so certain, face us now! Do you fear to try your doom with us?"
Lord Foul's laughter exploded with fiercer contempt. But Mhoram's defiance had broken its transfixion.

Prothall touched Mhoram's shoulder. The warriors gripped their swords, placed themselves in grim readiness behind the Lords.


In The Wounded Land, Chapter 19 was wrote:
Slowly, the Oath of Peace was abandoned; slowly, the ideals of the Clave were altered. Therefore when the Clave made a secret door to its new hold and Aumbrie, it made one such as the Ravers had known in Foul's Creche. Slowly, the legends of Lord Foul were transmogrified into the tales of a-Jeroth, both to explain the Sunbane and to conceal Lord Foul's hand in it.
Laboring always in secret, so that the Clave at all times had many uncorrupted members--people like Memla, who believed the Raver's lies, and were therefore sincere in their service--samadhi Sheol fashioned a tool for the Despiser, ill enough to be persuasive. Only then did Lord Foul let his work be seen.


In White Gold Wielder, Chapter 15 was wrote:
"No. It is you who do not understand. You have not yet learned to comprehend the cunning of despair. Can you think that I allowed my fellow Lords to guess my purpose when I had set my heart to the Ritual? Have you seen granted the gift of such sight, and are you yet unable to see? When evil rises in its full power, it surpasses truth and may wear the guise of good without fear of discovery. In that way was I brought to my own doom."


Apparently, one of Lord Foul's strengths is that he is a master of camouflage.
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Bathing Giantesses in this chapter!! Beware for an obscure Insequent hight Hashi lurking among the upthrusting rocks!


Our very own Hashi Lebwohl, eh? This could be expressed as a mathematical equation, now that I think about it: Shocked + Hearts = Hashi .

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Frostheart wrote:
Cord Hurn wrote: wide depression bottom
While reading this in a state of tiredness, my brain’s foot sunk into a bog of synonymity and could not unfasten itself for a while.


Yeah, my mistake. Obviously depressions represent hitting bottom, so my description was a bit redundant.

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Above, I wrote:
Linden's answer comforts Frostheart Grueburn, but why?


lurch wrote:
What Grue realizes is...for Linden to even be honest and open enough to say those words..understand those words...repeat those words..is a Love in its self..a Joy to hear ,,a comfort to the nausea.


Frostheart wrote:
Anyhow, I would deem Linden’s honesty provides an surplus kilo of comfort in addition to the entire bearing of her own responsibilities.


And those responses effectively answer my question, I think! Thanks to both of you.

[Edited because the "drooling" emoticon I had imported to describe Hashi's reaction to bathing Giantesses has had its link broken. I have replaced it with the "hearts" emoticon.]
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frostheart wrote:
Foul’s associated with serpentine features (eyes like fangs besides Fangthane); most likely the resident Chronicles Scholar will supply an accurate answer to this.


I'm doubtful of this, for even a Covenant scholar as skilled as wayfriend still needs some evidence to work with, and I don't think there is any.

Frostheart wrote:
However, remember that in the 1st chrons, Covenant felt Foul’s wrongness through the soil/grass (my memory’s a wee bit vague here…) as well.


Good memory!! Yes, in the LFB chapter "The Celebration of Spring", the Unbeliever gets repeatedly assaulted by a sensation of wrongness through his feet. The Earth continues to be an effective vector for evil as well as good.

Frostheart wrote:
What struck me as interesting was Grueburn’s love-confession to Linden. Obviously not amatory, but sisterly. Has any other Land-character disclosed such feelings to a beyondworld personage? We ken the degree of Liand and Stave’s devotedness, but must one be a Giant to weave it into words?


I think that's the one-and-only time we see such an outright confession in all ten Covenant books. Even Liand wasn't so forthright about something like this.

Frostheart Grueburn wrote:

lurch wrote:
Essence of Wildwood...Wandering Green Grass...


Eau de la sueur d’une géante? Knocks you flat akin to Kindwind after enjoying a barrelful of beans! Instant bestseller!


Well, I can see "Essence of Wildwood" being a solid seller, at least. "Savor of Springwine" could be another popular seller, too. On the other hand, "Whiff of the Wightwarrens" would probably go absolutely nowhere in the market.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyhow, I would deem Linden’s honesty provides an surplus kilo of comfort in addition to the entire bearing of her own responsibilities.

What struck me as interesting was Grueburn’s love-confession to Linden. Obviously not amatory, but sisterly. Has any other Land-character disclosed such feelings to a beyondworld personage? We ken the degree of Liand and Stave’s devotedness, but must one be a Giant to weave it into words?
I believe on basis of this TheFallen suggested her name represents a form of Giantish irony à lá Bluff Stoutgirth.

Quote:
“Toward you, I feel more than friendship. Amid the perils of the Lost Deep, and at other times, I have cared for you, as you know. For that reason among many other, your place in my heart is great.”


One could see some humor here,,afterall the scene involves a Giant...Grue is being very brave in her words,,and Linden,,in a way,,responds by saying ,,I fear ,,not being as brave as you, when required. There isa subtleness here that pertains to the Surreal. Some of the original Surrealists , lets say, " explored" their sexual orientation. Hints of threesomes are sprinkled thru out their letters and diaries, etc. So, while Donaldson never goes there,,this passage is as close as he ever gets. Its as if he takes us to the edge,,then lets us do the rest..much like the Honeymoon scene in the bough with the,,when they were done...Of course,,a Giantess and Linden being intimate is beyond awkward to imagine, and matters of the heart are whats really being expressed here rather than anything physical. Yet the author makes this kinda private conversation. So,,even by saying,,its not amatory..the possibility is suggested...The " play " on " Bravery"..is a coy scene...Abit of interesting humor there.

But to answer the question...consider...Elena and her father..
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lurch wrote:
One could see some humor here,,afterall the scene involves a Giant...Grue is being very brave in her words,,and Linden,,in a way,,responds by saying ,,I fear ,,not being as brave as you, when required. There isa subtleness here that pertains to the Surreal. Some of the original Surrealists , lets say, " explored" their sexual orientation. Hints of threesomes are sprinkled thru out their letters and diaries, etc. So, while Donaldson never goes there,,this passage is as close as he ever gets. Its as if he takes us to the edge,,then lets us do the rest..much like the Honeymoon scene in the bough with the,,when they were done...Of course,,a Giantess and Linden being intimate is beyond awkward to imagine, and matters of the heart are whats really being expressed here rather than anything physical. Yet the author makes this kinda private conversation. So,,even by saying,,its not amatory..the possibility is suggested...The " play " on " Bravery"..is a coy scene...Abit of interesting humor there.

But to answer the question...consider...Elena and her father..


Oho. Laughing Laughing Well, nothing against a non-straight Grueburn. Dumbledore's orientation did not stop me from liking the character. I admit to having mulled over "the tone" of that avouchment a tad; the Swordmain's care has in a sense already reached a level of intimacy. Foamy acted a bit...bendy towards Covenant at times as well. The Giants seem akin to the polar opposites of the Haruchai, who dump all feelings and cravings beneath that aggravating, detrimental stoicism. So, one might idly wonder if something of an omnivorous nature might be more of a norm than an exception here...perhaps that tale about weak seed serves a mere closet door. Twisted Evil Well, whatever the case, it's one more flower of hope abloom in the gloom. THOOLAH should now berate her as well, but do they possess hardy enough guts to envisage that 9-foot steel blade?

Now, we had a Haruchai-Merewife hybrid as a result of a cross-species relationship; did a human and a Giant ever frolick in the bushes together...?
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did come here for Softys promise of smut. I am deeply disappointed and I feel tricked into reading a dissection. It was a clever ploy, Softy. Hmph. And, lurch, you don't need to be a surrealist to have a three/four/fivesome. It is pretty common, I think. Razz

Also, I think the Grue quote just meant Linden was a bff, not the object of sweaty dreams. Though, had it gone there, the book would have been way better. Just imagine all that time spent sitting around talking over the same ideas over and over if each pause on the road was a giantish sex camorra instead. They could have stopped in seareach and included the giant raver ghost in one and added some bdsm.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cord Hurn wrote:


Frostheart wrote:
Bathing Giantesses in this chapter!! Beware for an obscure Insequent hight Hashi lurking among the upthrusting rocks!


Our very own Hashi Lebwohl, eh? This could be expressed as a mathematical equation, now that I think about it: Shocked + = Hashi .


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, so the Company translates in, and Jerry very nearly hops off his pony onto some gray grass gone bad, and somehow Linden senses this right off.  Anyone else pick up how this seemed too convenient?  I think Kevin's Dirt has lifted with Kasty all tucked away, so that may explain her hightened health sense, but it just seemed a bit too quick and coincidental.

TC notes the stars are out and so we know the Worm must be still trapped.  But how long has it been, a whole hour?  Two?  Lapsed time from a translation  isn't all  that long.  I guess every second helps, but that was a big risk going back and forth a few thousand years in a caesure, transforming Marthir's entire being, all for an hour or two.  Now I truly enjoyed SRD's  brilliant writing throughout this part of the story, from the time travel to the bower creation, but  I guess because it was so brilliant, I was looking for a bigger payoff then just delay.  But then we wouldn't need the rest of the story, I suppose.

Quote:
 "Sure, if we stop the Worm, Foul would be stuck in his prison. But we can't, and he won't. Think about that. Think about setting Despite loose in eternity, where it can pollute every new creation just like it's polluted this one. That's bad enough. Hellfire, that's bad enough! But it could become even worse. If he gets his hands on Jeremiah, he'll try to trade places with the Creator. He'll try to make a prison that will put an end to the very possibility of creation. He'll wipe out everything that has ever lived, everything that ever might live, every conceivable world. 

"If he can do that, eternity will become the kind of wasteland we've only seen in caesures. Then there won't be anything anywhere ever again. Nothing except scorn until even Lord Foul's heart breaks."


Very rarely does SRD speak of the Creator, and here he speaks of how necessary the Creator is.  Obvious, I suppose, but the Creator doesn't generally get a whole lot of respect imho, neither in the book or in the blogs.  Life is precious, creation is a gift that must always be preserved.   I get it that the "Creator" may be representative and not a real being as per a true religious belief, but it comforts me to think of it that way, and I have always found that there is enough room for such an interpretation in The Chronicles.

We get a brief reminder that the Ramen Cords  (Bappa and Panhi) went to Rivendell for help from the Masters, that Sandgorgons and Skurj linger in these parts, that this is lurker country, and that SWMNBN shares a flat here with LF.  Hmmm....I wonder if any of this means anything.  Obvious foreshadowing going on here. 

Okay, what the heck happened with the bath scene?  TC comes back, but Jerry's still drying off on some turf.  He knows this, but says that Branl's got him, so no problemo.   Really?   How the heck does he mess that one up?   And so naturally, or preternaturally, possession follows.  Not like TC or Linden haven't dealt with this crap a dozen times before!  A bit too easy here on the part of SRD, imho.  

Quote:
"And you, frail woman--" Lord Foul's mirth filled the vale. "You have become the daughter of my heart. In you, I am well pleased. "


"This my beloved son, with whom I am well pleased"..... Matthew 3:17.   An interesting parallel?

Quote:
Oh, Mom. I can feel the Worm. I can feel it.


And there we have it, something to replace the matchbox car, something to hold onto.

Cord Hurn wrote:  
Quote:
And my fear when I first read this was that Lord Foul now knows their location.


Yes, SRD appears to be setting the stage here.  

Cord Hurn, quoting LFB:  
Quote:
But Lord Mhoram moved. Springing onto the dais, he whirled his staff around his head until the air hummed, and blue lightning bolted upward into the clustered stalactites. "Then show yourself, Despiser!" he shouted. "If you are so certain, face us now! Do you fear to try your doom with us?"


Man, I miss Mhoram!

Cord Hurn wrote:
Quote:
 Yes, in the LFB chapter "The Celebration of Spring", the Unbeliever gets repeatedly assaulted by a sensation of wrongness through his feet. 


And, from what I recall, it was TC's boots that provided just enough buffer to keep him protected, and LF off the trail.  Hopefully, these boots are safely preserved in some museum up in Rivendell, but more likely they went to some Goodwill back home near Haven Farm.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, Cord Hurn. You're first dissection is rather well done. Thank you for the effort.

- - - - - -

Cord Hurn wrote:
Caught up in power-propelled dizziness, Linden is unable to notice her own ring is alight in response to Covenant's use of power with the krill and his own ring.

Consider also something that Covenant says.

In The Last Dark was wrote:
“Hellfire, Linden. This time I had help. I felt it. With so many of us, it still should have been difficult, even for a rightful wielder. But you helped me.”

Linden's aid seems to have been unconscious, and perhaps even without any action on her part. Their rings, and their magic, seem to be linked now. They are sharing strengths - a practical emblem of their union. I like that.

- - - - - -

Cord Hurn wrote:
I have wondered why this grass has affinity for Lord Foul's possessive efforts

Myself as well. I have had two thoughts on this. First, Covenant was also able to possess Anele on grass, but of a different kind, and so there is a marked connection between Covenant and Lord Foul which probably needs no explanation. And second, grass seems to be the antithesis of stone - compared to Stone, or even Wood, it is ephemeral, temporary and impermanent, suitable for wandering rather than building. Only Water is less like Stone, but unless people walk on Water, it is not an option here. Therefore, I conclude that Stone is where Anele/Jeremiah is safest, and grass is where he is in most danger.

- - - - - -

Cord Hurn wrote:
Lord Foul is in Mount Thunder, and Covenant proposes they approach him rather than follow the Worm.

Donaldson really does a good job making this decision seem both plausible and bat-poop crazy at the same time. But this is what Covenant does. He does it because he has a plan. He planned on getting his hands on the Illearth Stone. He planned on giving Foul his ring so that he can empty him. And now ... what does he know? He was the Time Warden ... he has known everything.

All we know is that Covenant is sure. And, just like everyone else in Linden's Army, we've come to trust his being sure.

And then he adds this:

In The Last Dark was wrote:
“Linden, I’m sorry. I have to do this. Eventually we all have to face the things that scare us most.

That seems like the key for understanding what happens from here on out. We all have to face the things that scare us most. We can speculate what those things are. But this chapter goes a long way for showing us what Jeremiah fears most: possession.

And THEN he adds this:

In The Last Dark was wrote:
And I’m not actually convinced that the Worm can’t be stopped. I just don’t think we can stop it.

Harken back to WGW, when Covenant said, "He thinks the ring will give him what he wants. After what I've been through, I know better. He's wrong." Like then, Covenant is now displaying a deep insight with his plan. Insight gained from what he's been through. We can only trust it.

(Correspondences. The Chronicles are full of them.)

- - - - - -

coistrels: mean fellows. Linden Giantfriend, perhaps you will consent to speak with me apart from these coistrels.

- - - - - -

In The Last Dark was wrote:
“But I can tell you this much. Thomas wants to walk right up to his worst fear and look it in the eye, but I’m not like that. Lord Foul isn’t my worst fear,” no matter how much she loved Jeremiah. “And the Worm isn’t. Even having to watch while everyone and everything I care about dies isn’t. As long as Thomas is still alive, none of that is inevitable.

"My worst fear"--this was as close as she could come to complete honesty--"is that there may actually be something I could do, and I won't be brave enough to do it."

It is not a coincidence that Linden tells us here her worst Fear. And Covenant's worst fear. Covenant has just said, We all have to face the things that scare us the most. No one can doubt now that Covenant will look Lord Foul in the eye. No one can doubt now that Linden will need to do something she may not be brave enough to do. No one can doubt now that Jeremiah will face the threat of possession.

Cord Hurn wrote:
Linden's answer comforts Frostheart Grueburn, but why?

Because FroGru was concerned that Linden is sailing a course to Desecration. It is now clear to her that she is not. She is not so afraid for Thomas and Jeremiah that she would undermine their mission. The fears that FroGru has seen are of another, and very human, nature.

It is a mark of how whole Linden has become that she no longer looks like Kevin to anyone. The whole rage/Gallows Howe/Cannot Forgive/Desecration Before You complex has been resolved.

- - - - - -

In The Last Dark was wrote:
She tried to meet his scrutiny, but her gaze slid away as if she were ashamed. “I understand what you want to do,” she told him with a rasp of her own. “I don’t have any better ideas. But you didn’t explain what you want from me.”

Or from Jeremiah.

Covenant’s manner said, I don’t want anything from you. I just want you. I just need you. But aloud he admitted, “I know. I couldn’t. I can’t. It’s all so vague.” He rapped his forehead with his knuckles. “I’m clear about what I have to do. What I have to try to do. But everything else is just impressions, instincts. It’s not an accident that you and Jeremiah are here. It’s not an accident that we’re here together. Hell,” he snorted, “I wouldn’t be here at all without you. But I have no idea what it means.”

He hesitated for a moment. Then he squared his shoulders, shook Linden gently. “The only thing I’m sure of is that this—the three of us together, with friends to help us—is not what Lord Foul wants. We’ve already done things he couldn’t have foreseen. Now I think we are something he can’t foresee.”

Sure, this passage again reinforces the idea that Covenant knows exactly what he is doing and that he has insights into how it will turn out.

But this notion of "three of us together" is profound. I subscribe to the notion that they have come to the Land together to be made whole together, and they are made whole together because they each are what makes the other whole. And it is the whole, completed versions of themselves which are strong enough to beat Foul, because, in a way, that's what being whole is for. In the Land, victory and wholeness are one. So if you take that as a premise, it only follows that what Covenant says is clearly and unavoidably true.

The oft-repeated theme of "Friends" is merely a shadow of this same idea. Being stronger by being together. If that makes sense, then the deeper notion will as well.

- - - - - -

Dondarion wrote:
Okay, so the Company translates in, and Jerry very nearly hops off his pony onto some gray grass gone bad, and somehow Linden senses this right off. Anyone else pick up how this seemed too convenient?

It was only very recently that they learned about Jeremiah's inherited weakness, when Kastenessen possessed him. So I don't think it's odd that it's still on Linden's mind, especially since she is so very worried about him.

Dondarion wrote:
Very rarely does SRD speak of the Creator, and here he speaks of how necessary the Creator is.

True. But at this point we need to consider, who is "the Creator" now?

Dondarion wrote:
We get a brief reminder that the Ramen Cords (Bappa and Panhi) went to Rivendell for help from the Masters

Rivendell? Honest mixup? Or intentional simile? I would have thought that Revelstone was more of a Minas Tirith. Smile
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remembering all the difficulty Linden Avery had trying to expel the croyel from Jeremiah using white gold and the Staff in Against All Things Ending, I find it interesting that she is able to toss Lord Foul out of Jer with relative ease. The explanation made sense to me, though.

Quote:
Her health-sense was precise. Her fire could be equally precise: as refined as a scalpel in spite of its blackness. Just for an instant, she sent it gyring skyward while she prepared it for her purpose; that it was exact. Then she swung it like the crack of a whip at her son.

It poured through Jeremiah without touching him. She had tuned her theurgy to the pitch and timbre of Lord Foul's malice rather than of Jeremiah's body, Jeremiah's appalled mind. Her dark flame struck only the Despiser.

She could do so because Lord Foul's mastery was of an entirely different kind than the croyel's. That monster had merely reached into Jeremiah; fed on him; used him: it had not existed within him. And his defenses--his dissociation--had protected him. But now he had arisen from his graves. He inhabited himself. That change enabled Linden to distinguish between his reclaimed self and the force which ruled him.


lurch wrote:
That Bravery ,is Toward Confrontation.


There's something about how this chapter title is pronounced that makes it naturally convey boldness and determination, or so it seems to me.

Frostheart wrote:
What struck me as interesting was Grueburn’s love-confession to Linden. Obviously not amatory, but sisterly.


Ananda wrote:
Also, I think the Grue quote just meant Linden was a bff, not the object of sweaty dreams.


I basically agree with this; I think it just meant that Frostheart sees Linden as family.

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
The admiration for the forms of Giantesses is not only an acquired taste but a taste definitely worth acquiring.


More power to you then, Hashi! These Giantesses seem to be relaxed about things like this, so the worst that could happen is you'll be splashed by a whole lot of water.

Dondarion wrote:
"This my beloved son, with whom I am well pleased"..... Matthew 3:17. An interesting parallel?


I agree, and suspect SRD was conscious of this.

Dondarion wrote:
And there we have it, something to replace the matchbox car, something to hold onto.


I hadn't thought about that. Ironically, this gives him fear rather than security, as LF no doubt intended.

Dondarion wrote:
Man, I miss Mhoram!


Me too, Dondarion! What a great character he was. I'm glad we got to see him in flashback in AATE.

Dondarion wrote:
And, from what I recall, it was TC's boots that provided just enough buffer to keep him protected, and LF off the trail.


My recall is that the alien nature of TC's boots is what enabled Drool to locate him with the Staff's power.

wayfriend wrote:
Linden's aid seems to have been unconscious, and perhaps even without any action on her part. Their rings, and their magic, seem to be linked now. They are sharing strengths - a practical emblem of their union. I like that.


So do I. And I like that it contributes to the concept of wholeness.

wayfriend wrote:
Because FroGru was concerned that Linden is sailing a course to Desecration. It is now clear to her that she is not. She is not so afraid for Thomas and Jeremiah that she would undermine their mission. The fears that FroGru has seen are of another, and very human, nature.

It is a mark of how whole Linden has become that she no longer looks like Kevin to anyone. The whole rage/Gallows Howe/Cannot Forgive/Desecration Before You complex has been resolved.


Good answers! It is becoming clear that the only one likely to cause Desecration at this point is Jeremiah.

wayfriend wrote:
Rivendell? Honest mixup? Or intentional simile? I would have thought that Revelstone was more of a Minas Tirith.


And when the Clave was in charge, it was becoming more of a Minas Morgul, so to speak. Raver
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I, Dondarion mistakenly wrote:
Quote:
We get a brief reminder that the Ramen Cords (Bappa and Panhi) went to Rivendell for help from the Masters.


To which Wayfriend gently jibed:
Quote:
Rivendell? Honest mixup? Or intentional simile? I would have thought that Revelstone was more of a Minas Tirith.


And Cord Hurn wrote:
Quote:
And when the clave was in charge, it was becoming more of a Minas Morgul, so to speak.


I guess it's been that long since we were in Revelstone that I must have just switched books. Rivendell is northwest of Mordor, after all, just as Revelstone is northwest of Mt. Thunder, so I guess that's my excuse. And Revelstone with the Clave is probably more like Minas Tirith with poor misguided Denethor in command. Stave starts out like Boromir, Denethor's eldest son, all proud and defensive about the Masters' doings, but ends up more like the younger son Faramir, empathetic and knowing that his father was in the wrong all along. So there, the gaffe turned out to be a fun little learning experience.

And I must thank you both for overlooking the following:
Quote:
Hopefully, these boots are safely preserved in some museum up in Rivendell, but more likely they went to some Goodwill back home near Haven Farm.


Hey, maybe they are in Rivendell. Anyone think of checking??
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cord Hurn wrote:
Remembering all the difficulty Linden Avery had trying to expel the croyel from Jeremiah using white gold and the Staff in Against All Things Ending, I find it interesting that she is able to toss Lord Foul out of Jer with relative ease. The explanation made sense to me, though.

That is not something about which I have given much attention ... yet. I must think on ot.

Cord Hurn wrote:
Dondarion wrote:
"This my beloved son, with whom I am well pleased"..... Matthew 3:17. An interesting parallel?

I agree, and suspect SRD was conscious of this.

The Dedication in FR reads, "to Ross Donaldson - my son, in whom I am well pleased". So, I am agreeing it was quite a conscious allusion.

Cord Hurn wrote:
Dondarion wrote:
And there we have it, something to replace the matchbox car, something to hold onto.

I hadn't thought about that. Ironically, this gives him fear rather than security, as LF no doubt intended.

It seems to me that Foul recognizes that Jeremiah is the only one of the Three remaining which is susceptible to his Despiser-work. Thomas and Linden have become resilient to his little games. But I don't see how it fills the same role as the matchbox car. Jeremiah held onto that car because it was the key to having his whole life back. I cannot see him wanting Wormovision in any similar way.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This has been bugging me but I finally found the passage.

In The Last Dark wrote:
Writ in water. Finally those words reached Linden. She remembered how Covenant had rescued her from her terror of She Who Must Not Be Named. He had gone to that extreme for her: her husband who loved her. How could she fault him for still being a man who went to extremes? When extremes were needed?

When I read this passage during the dissection, it tickled an idea that I have been having lately, the idea about why three people are in the Land together.

It tickled me because it reminded me of how Linden was in this fugue state after escaping from the Lost Deep, and how it was Covenant that got her out of it.

If you look at the whole picture, all the three main characters have been rescued like this:
+ Covenant was rescued from being dead, by Linden
+ Linden was rescued from being catatonic, by Covenant
+ Jeremiah was rescued from being dissociative, by Covenant and Linden

Which means, all of the three main characters would have been stuck in a dead end, unable to fulfill themselves, without each other. More: if the other(s) had not gone to extremes. This is an oversimplification, but I think the notion is both applicable and significant.

The "to extremes" is significant here, to me, because it signifies that the three had to grow and change significantly before they were ready to redeem the others.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dondarion wrote:
Stave starts out like Boromir, Denethor's eldest son, all proud and defensive about the Masters' doings, but ends up more like the younger son Faramir, empathetic and knowing that his father was in the wrong all along. So there, the gaffe turned out to be a fun little learning experience.


Very nice, and it fits Stave, in the ways you have said.

Dondarion wrote:
And I must thank you both for overlooking the following:
Quote:
Hopefully, these boots are safely preserved in some museum up in Rivendell, but more likely they went to some Goodwill back home near Haven Farm.


Hey, maybe they are in Rivendell. Anyone think of checking??


Could be, Dondarion! In that case, Elrond's probably changed the name of his dwelling from "The Last Homely House East of the Sea" to "The Last Homely House of Second-hand Collectibles".

wayfriend wrote:
But at this point we need to consider, who is "the Creator" now?


wayfriend wrote:
The "to extremes" is significant here, to me, because it signifies that the three had to grow and change significantly before they were ready to redeem the others.


And wayfriend deftly answers his own question. I wish I could comment on this further, but that would lead into spoiler territory. Wink

Thanks to everybody who contributed to this discussion! Your thoughtful responses were quite gratifying!!! Love grin
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