Kevin's Watch Forum Index
 HomeHome   MemberlistMemberlist   RegisterRegister   SearchSearch   ProfileProfile   FAQFAQ   StatisticsStatistics  SudokuSudoku   Phoogle MapPhoogle Map 
 AlbumAlbum StoresStores   StoresItems Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The Devengar Cycle: Of The Sky Chaps 1 and 2

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Kevin's Watch Forum Index -> The Hall of Gifts
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
rdhopeca
Ur-Lord Author and Musician

MaleRanyhyn
Joined: 21 Apr 2008
Posts: 2307

Thanks: 8
Thanked 23 Times in 23 Posts

Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
2328 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 2008 Watchies1 2009 Watchies


PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 3:03 am    Post subject: The Devengar Cycle: Of The Sky Chaps 1 and 2 Reply with quote

Hi all,

Just wanted to throw the first two chapters of my attempt at an epic trilogy for some feedback. After this the story gets into the meat of it and I'll probably go under wraps with it for a while.

What I'm really after is an objective response to story and characters....is it / are they interesting? Would you continue reading?

And if you find any typos or grammar errors that's ok too.

I apologize for the use of a PDF but it would take too long to copy and format it in.

https://rdhope.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/of-the-sky.pdf

Thanks!
_________________
Rob

"Progress is made. Be warned."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Phoogle Map
aliantha
18k or bust!

Female
Joined: 05 Mar 2002
Posts: 17551

Thanks: 28
Thanked 73 Times in 72 Posts

Location: Arlington, VA
14432 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Aliantha Berries1 Andelain1 SRD's Green Rock


PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PDF is best for preserving the formatting anyhow. I take it this is more than I've seen before? Will have a look, but probably not 'til I get back home next week. Smile
_________________



EZ Board Survivor

"Dreaming isn't good for you unless you do the things it tells you to." -- Three Dog Night (via the GI)

http://www.hearth-myth.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
rdhopeca
Ur-Lord Author and Musician

MaleRanyhyn
Joined: 21 Apr 2008
Posts: 2307

Thanks: 8
Thanked 23 Times in 23 Posts

Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
2328 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 2008 Watchies1 2009 Watchies


PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes it's more, and take your time Smile. Thank you Smile
_________________
Rob

"Progress is made. Be warned."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Phoogle Map
aliantha
18k or bust!

Female
Joined: 05 Mar 2002
Posts: 17551

Thanks: 28
Thanked 73 Times in 72 Posts

Location: Arlington, VA
14432 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Aliantha Berries1 Andelain1 SRD's Green Rock


PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, finally, and sorry for the delay.

I read it through without making notes. I did spot a few things, but they're cosmetic and therefore inconsequential right now. What matters right now is that I want to know what happens. Laughing Keep writing!
_________________



EZ Board Survivor

"Dreaming isn't good for you unless you do the things it tells you to." -- Three Dog Night (via the GI)

http://www.hearth-myth.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
rdhopeca
Ur-Lord Author and Musician

MaleRanyhyn
Joined: 21 Apr 2008
Posts: 2307

Thanks: 8
Thanked 23 Times in 23 Posts

Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
2328 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 2008 Watchies1 2009 Watchies


PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Out of curiosity, does any of it feel cliched? Awkward? Make you go "hmmmm?" or distract?
_________________
Rob

"Progress is made. Be warned."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Phoogle Map
rdhopeca
Ur-Lord Author and Musician

MaleRanyhyn
Joined: 21 Apr 2008
Posts: 2307

Thanks: 8
Thanked 23 Times in 23 Posts

Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
2328 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 2008 Watchies1 2009 Watchies


PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh and thank you thank you thank you by the way Smile
_________________
Rob

"Progress is made. Be warned."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Phoogle Map
ussusimiel
Ghurning

Male
Joined: 31 May 2011
Posts: 5346

Thanks: 69
Thanked 66 Times in 63 Posts

Location: Waterford (milking cows), and sometimes still Dublin, Ireland
7862 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Unfettered1 Member of THOOLAH1 2011 Watchies


PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My comments are in the offing (sailing image there Laughing). Thery'll be here shortly.

But, as ali said, keep writing. It's so good, there's very little you need from us beyond cheerleading!

u.
_________________
Tho' all the maps of blood and flesh
Are posted on the door,
There's no one who has told us yet
What Boogie Street is for.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
rdhopeca
Ur-Lord Author and Musician

MaleRanyhyn
Joined: 21 Apr 2008
Posts: 2307

Thanks: 8
Thanked 23 Times in 23 Posts

Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
2328 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 2008 Watchies1 2009 Watchies


PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ussusimiel wrote:
My comments are in the offing (sailing image there Laughing). Thery'll be here shortly.

But, as ali said, keep writing. It's so good, there's very little you need from us beyond cheerleading!

u.


That's high praise! And I appreciate it, but I still think I likely have a few mechanical problems here...and another set or two of eyes is awesome to have. So yeah any feedback at all, I am open to all suggestions...

It's kind of funny, I've had the scene in the first chapter in my head for 6 or 7 years, and it's done, but completely different than I thought it would be. I've had Arnath in my head for closer to 15 years, and he's coming out all right as well, but nowhere near as stoic and unfeeling as I had anticipated. I am trying to establish him as a character with commitment problems (not to give to0 much away) in spite of his commitment to his martial arts, which is a trait suggested by the story resolution that was not in my original "imagining" of the character.

Guess it took E-fest to bring it out...
_________________
Rob

"Progress is made. Be warned."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Phoogle Map
aliantha
18k or bust!

Female
Joined: 05 Mar 2002
Posts: 17551

Thanks: 28
Thanked 73 Times in 72 Posts

Location: Arlington, VA
14432 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Aliantha Berries1 Andelain1 SRD's Green Rock


PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ideas do evolve as they're percolating in our brains... Wink

I didn't notice anything awkward or cliched, but I read it pretty fast. And anyway, at this point I am not inclined to give you a bunch of stuff to go back and fix -- because that's how people tend to get hung up when they're writing novels. They're trying to make what they've already written perfect, when that's better done once you've got the bones of the work -- the whole first draft -- done. Then you can go back and fix everything at once. Smile So yes, keep writing. Smile
_________________



EZ Board Survivor

"Dreaming isn't good for you unless you do the things it tells you to." -- Three Dog Night (via the GI)

http://www.hearth-myth.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
ussusimiel
Ghurning

Male
Joined: 31 May 2011
Posts: 5346

Thanks: 69
Thanked 66 Times in 63 Posts

Location: Waterford (milking cows), and sometimes still Dublin, Ireland
7862 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Unfettered1 Member of THOOLAH1 2011 Watchies


PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I finally read the whole 2nd chapter (I'll reread the first another time).

I enjoyed it and, as usual, the writing was fluid and clean. The character of the Chainmaster was well-developed and the description of his weapon and then the scene where we get to see it in action worked very well. The chapter as a whole felt a bit too packed maybe, a lot happened and maybe in later drafts it could be split into two, or at least two distinct halves (we get a lot of backstory and context in one chapter).

The interaction between Ulric and the Chainmaster was good, plenty of tension and energy. I felt that the Chainmaster's abrupt refusal and then acceptance felt a bit ragged. I think that if the refusal was shown to be a part of the Chainmaster's test before acceptance that that would fit better. Something like, 'he needed more. How much did Ulric really need this? There was one way to find out.'

I liked getting a sense of the city (which also tells us about the Chainmaster) and a feeling for the character of Arnath (the seeming paradox of ascetic discipline and more carnal activities). The use of the mystery/detective story device is also an very good way of giving structure to the story and keeping the momentum and pacing lively.

It's great stuff, Rob. Keep at it!

u.
_________________
Tho' all the maps of blood and flesh
Are posted on the door,
There's no one who has told us yet
What Boogie Street is for.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
rdhopeca
Ur-Lord Author and Musician

MaleRanyhyn
Joined: 21 Apr 2008
Posts: 2307

Thanks: 8
Thanked 23 Times in 23 Posts

Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
2328 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 2008 Watchies1 2009 Watchies


PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ussusimiel wrote:
I finally read the whole 2nd chapter (I'll reread the first another time).

I enjoyed it and, as usual, the writing was fluid and clean. The character of the Chainmaster was well-developed and the description of his weapon and then the scene where we get to see it in action worked very well. The chapter as a whole felt a bit too packed maybe, a lot happened and maybe in later drafts it could be split into two, or at least two distinct halves (we get a lot of backstory and context in one chapter).

The interaction between Ulric and the Chainmaster was good, plenty of tension and energy. I felt that the Chainmaster's abrupt refusal and then acceptance felt a bit ragged. I think that if the refusal was shown to be a part of the Chainmaster's test before acceptance that that would fit better. Something like, 'he needed more. How much did Ulric really need this? There was one way to find out.'

I liked getting a sense of the city (which also tells us about the Chainmaster) and a feeling for the character of Arnath (the seeming paradox of ascetic discipline and more carnal activities). The use of the mystery/detective story device is also an very good way of giving structure to the story and keeping the momentum and pacing lively.

It's great stuff, Rob. Keep at it!

u.


This is very helpful...thanks...seriously this is great feedback.

I will adjust the abruptness of that moment. I thought I had laid it out but on a reread I can see where it needs more.

Also, you are not the first to suggest the chapters are too long. I hesitate to break the first chapter up, but in light of this, maybe I should. I *really* wanted the first scene to be one long intro.

Perhaps that's a bad idea.

How do you feel about pacing in the sense that if the first chapter is X length, shouldn't all chapters be roughly X length? Or would that not matter?
_________________
Rob

"Progress is made. Be warned."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Phoogle Map
aliantha
18k or bust!

Female
Joined: 05 Mar 2002
Posts: 17551

Thanks: 28
Thanked 73 Times in 72 Posts

Location: Arlington, VA
14432 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Aliantha Berries1 Andelain1 SRD's Green Rock


PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good question about chapter length.

I seem to write either in 3500-4000 word chapters, or in long sections broken up only by scene and/or PoV changes. So I am probably not the best one to ask. Laughing I *kind of* think authors set up an expectation of length with the first couple of chapters in the book, so that if you make one a lot longer later, they might feel as though it goes on too long. But if the writing is compelling and the action keeps moving, they may not notice the length, or even the passage of time (i.e., "I'll just read to the end of the chapter" and suddenly it's 3am, not that that's ever happened to me Wink ). If you want to get pedantic about it, I suppose you could survey some of your favorite epic fantasies and see whether there's a chapter length that seems optimal. But I tend to think that the optimal length depends on the work in question. I wouldn't want to see an author rush a scene, for instance, in order to hew to some predetermined chapter length that's more or less arbitrarily determined in the first place.

As for u.'s comment about the two halves, more or less, of this Chapter 2 -- yeah, I can see his point. There seems to be a natural break between when Arnath leaves the meeting with the consort and when he begins his investigation. But then, since you have two parallel story lines, you might want to think about the structure of the novel as a whole. Are you going to strictly alternate Rogen's chapters with Arnath's? Or do you care about that?
_________________



EZ Board Survivor

"Dreaming isn't good for you unless you do the things it tells you to." -- Three Dog Night (via the GI)

http://www.hearth-myth.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
rdhopeca
Ur-Lord Author and Musician

MaleRanyhyn
Joined: 21 Apr 2008
Posts: 2307

Thanks: 8
Thanked 23 Times in 23 Posts

Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
2328 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 2008 Watchies1 2009 Watchies


PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aliantha wrote:
Good question about chapter length.

I seem to write either in 3500-4000 word chapters, or in long sections broken up only by scene and/or PoV changes. So I am probably not the best one to ask. Laughing I *kind of* think authors set up an expectation of length with the first couple of chapters in the book, so that if you make one a lot longer later, they might feel as though it goes on too long. But if the writing is compelling and the action keeps moving, they may not notice the length, or even the passage of time (i.e., "I'll just read to the end of the chapter" and suddenly it's 3am, not that that's ever happened to me Wink ). If you want to get pedantic about it, I suppose you could survey some of your favorite epic fantasies and see whether there's a chapter length that seems optimal. But I tend to think that the optimal length depends on the work in question. I wouldn't want to see an author rush a scene, for instance, in order to hew to some predetermined chapter length that's more or less arbitrarily determined in the first place.

As for u.'s comment about the two halves, more or less, of this Chapter 2 -- yeah, I can see his point. There seems to be a natural break between when Arnath leaves the meeting with the consort and when he begins his investigation. But then, since you have two parallel story lines, you might want to think about the structure of the novel as a whole. Are you going to strictly alternate Rogen's chapters with Arnath's? Or do you care about that?


I think I am going to split them both. I found a good breaking point in Chapter one. It will also help me structurally as I was looking for things to put into the next chapters to fill them out; now I will be able to tie them more closely to specific scenes and not worry about that too much.

Thanks you two. You rock. Head Banger
_________________
Rob

"Progress is made. Be warned."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Phoogle Map
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Kevin's Watch Forum Index -> The Hall of Gifts All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by Earthpower © Kevin's Watch