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TLD Part II Chapter 6 - The Aid of the Feroce

 
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 1:09 am    Post subject: TLD Part II Chapter 6 - The Aid of the Feroce Reply with quote

The Last Dark, Part II Chapter 6

The Aid of the Feroce

Frostheart Grueburn, carrying Linden, enters through the opening of the Defiles Course into Mount Thunder, to begin the ascent towards confrontation and Kiril Threndor. Bluff Stoutgirth carrying Covenant and Cirrus Kindwind carrying Jeremiah are walking nearby, as are Stave and a krill-bearing Branl. Behind them are Onyx Stonemage and Halewhole Bluntfist of the Swordmainnir. Also following are Baf Scatterwit, Hurl, Etched Furledsail. Squallish Blustergale, Wiver Setrock and others from Stoutgirth's sailor crew. Ahead of them, Ironhand Rime Coldspray and the lurker's servants the Feroce are leading the company.

Entering into the mountain, Linden is aware of suddenly being surrounded by blackness except for the krill's light, with the heavens blotted from view.

Quote:
The decimations of the stars had been a constant reminder of the carnage which the Worm had already wrought. But what had been lost only made what remained more precious.


The watercourse, now mostly dried out, is at first a series of terraces with some tumbled boulders the Feroce slide over while Giants squeeze single file between the boulder piles. The watercourse narrows and the ceiling stretches ever higher while seeming fragile, with occasional fallen rock to reinforce that fragile perception. Moss begins to cover everything as they go further up and inward, reflecting the sickly green glow of the guiding Feroce.

The air suddenly feels thick with poisonous vapors and the leading Giants start coughing very roughly. Jeremiah seems to be faltering with his control of the Staff of Law's air-cleansing abilities.

Quote:
He was not ready for this; not ready at all to have twenty-one lives depending on him for every breath.


Linden wishes to mentally reach out and draw added power from the Staff to help Jeremiah, but reflects that he needs to become accustomed to meeting this challenge without assistance. Then the Giants stop marching in sudden exhaustion and Baf Scatterwit swoons, slips, and cracks a kneecap.

Linden realizes she must at least say something helpful to Jeremiah, telling him he need only encourage the Staff's power rather than force it. Jeremiah protests that he can't do it and it doesn't make sense.

Quote:
Linden fought for patience. "Try it this way. Close your eyes. Forget where you are. Forget what's happening. Forget the Staff, if you can. Concentrate on Earthpower and air, clean air, air that keeps you alive. It's like building one of your castles. You think about what you're making. You don't think about how you make it. The Staff is just a means.
"You can do this if you trust yourself."


Jeremiah tries it after the briefest of protests, and soon he enables the company to continue onward breathing air free of rot or poison.

They all pass through a stinging waterfall. The Feroce scramble up the stone wall face behind the waterfall, and Branl goes up ahead with the krill to light the way. As they all scramble up, Linden sees krill-light reflected upon a black-surfaced lake of undetermined boundary. The lake is motionless, seamlessly absorbing everything that drops into it. The Feroce seem to have disappeared. Covenant remarks he saw them go into the lake. They resurface quickly, warning the company it must hasten from a peril of majesty and wonder.

Covenant orders the company to surge forward. Linden sees a lithe, thick, serpentine body glide above the lake's surface, suggesting it's part of an immense monster. Covenant guesses it's the lurker's mother. The Feroce call it their High God's god and declare its thoughts to be broken. They warn it will seek to kill everybody. The water level starts rising and the company starts running upstream through a narrowing cavern. This unfortunately ends in a cul-de-sac with another waterfall.

However, the uneven stone behind this waterfall permits easier climbing for the Giants and Haruchai. Stave requests rope from the Anchormaster as the water level rises high enough to force the Giants to stay close to the cavern walls. Baf Scatterwit stumbles into the lake's edge, immersing her right foot. Stave leads the way up the cul-de-sac wall with a Giant sailor holding coiled rope behind him. Grueburn calls attention to Scatterwit's right foot having been cut off at the ankle, though it's seemingly cauterized and isn't bleeding. Grueburn takes Scatterwit's arm and supports her forward. Giant sailor Wiver Setrock struggles upward on rope cast down and anchored by Stave, then casts another rope down. Sailors Keenreef and Hurl then climb with new ropes.

Quote:
From the Ironhand's back, Covenant asked the lurker's creatures, "What about you? We need you."

"The Feroce are the Feroce," they replied as if that answer sufficed. Sinking at every step, they began to back away. As they submerged, their fires flared briefly on the water, then went out.

"Hellfire," Covenant muttered. "Bloody damnation."


Anchormaster Bluff Stoutgirth asserts to Ironhand Rime Coldspray that he holds command in such straits, and Coldspray doesn't dispute this. Stoutgirth determines the order of Giants to ascend, and assigns Scatterwit to the company's rear.

Atop this wall they ascend to a wide-mouthed tunnel narrowing to a chute angling sharply upward, filled with the diminished river at its bottom. The Giants have anchored themselves by sitting in the river and bracing against potholes to serve as anchors for the climbing company. Jeremiah announces that he is seeing Melenkurion Skyweir from the Worm's viewpoint, as the Worm is swimming through the Black River. Hurl proclaims all of the company has safely climbed above the lake. Stoutgirth orders all onward but Hurl, who he orders to stay back and watch the still-rising lake.

As Hurl notifies that the lake of the lurker's god is rising to the base of the waterfall, the Giants run up the chute in a series of splashes while some of them are hauling Scatterwit by rope or pushing her upward. They gain a widened cavern where the river had eaten out deposits from the sandstone and shale of the walls. Where the river dug out a pit in the underlying basalt, Rime Coldspray re-assumes command and orders a rest. Food is brought out and Linden takes the Staff from Jeremiah to clean the air while he rests. The Feroce's emerald light is seen ascending the walls of the chute towards the company, and soon they and Hurl are seen moving towards them. Hurl is grinning and unharmed. The Feroce are shrunken after their immersion in the lake of their High God's god.

The Feroce repeat to Covenant that the company must hasten. Hoping to give the Feroce courage, Covenant reminds them their ancestors the jheherrin saved the Pure One when weaker than the Feroce are now, and yet were set free. The Feroce say they will obey. Covenant tells Coldspray they should continue on.

Quote:
Nodding, the Ironhand addressed Bluff Stoutgirth. "Anchormaster?"

"Aye." Stoutgirth grinned. To his crew, he said as if he were jesting, "Come, sluggards. Have done with feasting and sloth. While we dally, the world's doom grows fretful. Soon it may set its sails and depart unopposed."

His crew responded with snorts or groans, or with ripostes; yet they immediately began packing away their provisions. Soon they were ready.


Unprompted, Jeremiah asks Linden for the Staff, and suggests he shouldn't have any more help wielding its power. Linden semi-reluctantly returns it. Jeremiah's control over Earthpowerful Law is becoming noticeably more effective than when they first started climbing inside the mountain. Some Giants slip while clamoring up the steep wet stone chute, but are timely caught by others below them, and jests are made among them about these mistakes.

Above the chute, the river runs across a gently sloping flat stone area from which two water sources flow together at the higher end of this flat. Both sources of water ultimately flow from different areas of the far wall's gutrock. Branl's holding of the krill at the stream's mouth reveals all this in bejeweled brightness.

Quote:
There were indeed two, one diagonally across from her on the left, the other opposite her and somewhat to the right. The stream on the left tumbled from a fissure in the wall, a crack barely wide enough to admit a Giant. The water frothing there conveyed the impression that it cascaded from somewhere far above the cave. In the krill's light, its spray shone silver.

The other stream boiled out of an opening beneath the lake's surface. Apparently it came from the base of a subtle flaw in the stone, a seam where distinct forms of rock had been reluctantly fused. Under the pressure of its own weight, water seethed into the pond.

Only the fissure on the left offered the company an egress. An ascent there would be difficult. If the crack narrowed, it might become impassable. But the water there was fresh.

God, it was fresh--it came from a clean spring, or from several. And the fissure was accessible. The company could reach it without enduring an immersion in the pond; without subjecting Linden to more of the bane's touch.


They all approach the cave's outlet on the far side's walls. The Feroce appear to be further diminished at this point, so high above the Sarangrave; their green fires flicker more hesitantly as they fearfully predict, "You will be wroth with us. You will not heed." The Feroce point at the fissure and tell Covenant it misleads. They insist the inlet within the right water body, the inflow of polluted-looking water, carries the memory of sunlight. It must be the polluted water route to get to the Wightwarrens, Kiril Threndor, and eventually outside to the Upper Land. "As one, the creatures pointed at the turbulence spewing from beneath the surface of the pond."

Covenant and Linden want to believe the Feroce, but don't see how they can survive going that way. Jeremiah demands, "Look". Linden focuses where he indicates to fused stone, noticing the seam of the fused rock appears thin enough to break with wild magic. She further senses a wedge-shaped space with its tip just beyond the seam, widening out with ascending distance. And the level of water pressure had dropped since Linden opened the ceilings to drop water into the Lost Deep.

The Anchormaster has Hurl, Setrock, and other Giants analyze the hardness and density of this fused stone, confirming that the Feroce, Linden, and Jeremiah sense flowing water from a chamber just behind the seam-boundaried fused stone in the wall below the polluted lake. Hurl and Setrock warn that ordinary force will not smash that stone in or loosen it outward. Linden volunteers to cut the seam surrounding the fused stone using wild magic. But a lot of water would then be released. Covenant cautions everybody of this, and asks them to be prepared to aid Linden to keep her out of the water's rush. Jeremiah is so concerned for her that his air-cleaning power flickers out from the Staff. His power then feebly resumes after all start to gag on the suddenly rotten air. Jeremiah recovers his control after Linden says to concentrate on air and leave worrying about her rescue to the Giants.

Coldspray tells Covenant the Giants will see to Linden's safety and they arrange themselves in an arc near the seamed stone. Stave walks toward Linden (placed in Stoutgirth's arms by Grueburn, who stands nearby).

Quote:
Stave came to her side. He gave her a grave bow, regarded her with his single eye. "In such straits, Chosen," he remarked, "it may be that Giants are better able to ward you than one Haruchai. Nonetheless I will not be parted from you. I have accepted once an absence from your side. I will not do so again."


Linden is speechless with gratitude. She, Grueburn, and Stave see the Giant sailor Etched Furledsail approaching, who tells them to "fear nothing" as Linden is handed to him. Furledsail also cautions Linden not to resist with force once she breaches the wall, to allow Giants quick mobility.

Linden Ringthane searches for the hidden door within her that accesses wild magic when mentally opened. Linden's silent response to Furledsail's cautioning words prompts the latter to raise an eyebrow; causes a slight shrug from Stave. The Chosen hesitates, fearing the force of the water that will come through. But Covenant and Jeremiah call her by name, and Stave confidently declares, "You are Linden Avery the Chosen, named in honor Ringthane, Giantfriend, and Wildwielder. Much is asked of you, but much has also been given. The time for doubt has passed. Only deeds or death remain. On other occasions, you have dared Desecration. You need not fear it now." Linden finds her inner door to wield wild magic as Furledsail moves with her into the polluted pond toward the seams around the fused rock. As water rushes out in response to her power, Linden is tossed to Hurl, then to Setrock, and then back to her friend Grueburn. Grueburn fiercely grins as Linden internally howls with triumph.

Quote:
Did you call me your daughter? she shouted at Lord Foul. Watch and learn, you smug bastard!



Spoiler:
As the onslaught of water rushes into the cave, the Feroce disappear from the company's sight.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank You Cord for a great synopsis The pressures that mount are a hoot in this chapter,,and they squeeze so well in the hands of Donaldson. The Magnificent is in..the Pressure of impending doom is created by seemingly having only two choices..a bad one and an even worse one. Its not..true or false or Black or White but its black and blacker or false and and even more false..Perhaps such is the perspective of one who knows there is an infinity of choices. And of coarse its the new kid on the block, Jeremiah, who " sees the 3rd choice,,the extra reality, the Surreal.

And the ancient memory,,embodied as the feroce, perhaps even " The Primitive",,see that the water in one choice has no memory of sun lite,,and Jeremiahs " choice''. has scant memory of day. Beautiful metaphor imho. And as before, Jeremiah's vision has to be made loud above the din of wtf and chaos of 2 bad choices.

Again, like others, this chapter has strong parable to it. It takes a new set of eyes,,a new perspective,,to see beyond the mundane 2 choice existence,,the " Or" existence and..the hint of the feroce is..Seeing such as that isn't so much "new", but is a return to ways of perceiving before the imposition of the True/False Logic of the Greeks invention. The memory of Sun Light. ..So yea..logic fails when you have to decide between seemingly Two Bad Choices..heads I win, Tails You lose. Fascinating that Jerry doesn't really use the stick with seeing the 3rd choice..its just his talent...The Humorous Giants also fill their obligation in keeping Linden from drowning. The visual of her being tossed around..echoes much more positively than when Stave was handled such.

Unfortunately,,the scatterbrained doesn't do well in this chapter.The author is very serious in this chapter. I stop rite there to enjoy the faint whiff of Black Humor and quaff accordingly. Its delicious. Not a leg to stand on for the daff.

The feroce redeem themselves in this chapter. Their value ..well heck..priceless. And to think at one time Linden feared these little schitts ( literally) enough to panic. Change brings forth a positive..Linden's " decisions" made in the previous chapter begin to pay off in this chapter. Jerry's maturing will be at his own making and sure enough his vision comes as a surprise,,not expected in ways thought by Linden..Again a sly definition of the Surreal,",MAGNIFICENCE ",,there.

And,,in ways not expected, SRD blew me away with this chapter. As metaphor, parable , it seems to be rite at the surface,,for clear viewing. The rising water of this chapter is perhaps a hint and serves well to put an awareness into the reader that..yea..we're in to Part Two now..and there is only so many pages left. Expect the unexpected from here on out.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for your reply, lurch! It's always enjoyable to get your reaction to these chapters!

lurch wrote:
The pressures that mount are a hoot in this chapter,,and they squeeze so well in the hands of Donaldson.


It's true there's some real tension here, for the very air around the company will snuff out their lives if Jeremiah's control of the Staff falters for more than a handful of moments.

Quote:
Every breath brought dire scents from offal and corpses; from strange lakes of lava and ruin arising from the deep places of the Earth; from the detritus of horrid theurgies and delving. From time and rot and distillation.



lurch wrote:
The Humorous Giants also fill their obligation in keeping Linden from drowning.

lurch wrote:
Unfortunately,,the scatterbrained doesn't do well in this chapter.The author is very serious in this chapter. I stop rite there to enjoy the faint whiff of Black Humor and quaff accordingly.


It seems that sometimes the humorous bravado of Giants in the face of danger and loss can seem too ridiculous even for other Giants (at least momentarily). The following quote may be a case in point.
Quote:
Hurl called, "They are safe!" And the Anchormaster crowed, "Stone and Sea! We are Giants in all sooth! And the Haruchai are Giants also, in their fashion. We live!"

"The lake rises still," continued Hurl. "Indeed, it swells more swiftly. Yet Scatterwit has suffered no further harm. And Blustergale has lost no more than two toes and a portion of a third. Had we been but a heartbeat sooner--"

Blustergale interrupted him, roaring in feigned indignation. "There is no pain! None, I say! Is this not an affront to fire the coldest heart? Am I not a Giant, as mortal as any, and as worthy of my hurts? Does the lurker's god think so little of me, or of Baf Scatterwit, or of all here, that it does not deign to cause pain?"

While Scatterwit chuckled, Bluff Stoutgirth commanded, "Enough, Blustergale. Some among us deem toes needful. Demonstrate that you are able to ascend here, and I will suffer your umbrage. Should you slip or falter, however, I will regard you justly chastened."

"The lake rises still," Hurl repeated more urgently. "Badinage and bravado will not slow it."

"Aye," the Anchormaster replied, "and aye again." He had recovered his good humor. "As you have seen fit to chide us, you will remain to mark the water's advance."
Then he urged his sailors into motion.



lurch wrote:
And of coarse its the new kid on the block, Jeremiah, who " sees the 3rd choice,,the extra reality, the Surreal.

lurch wrote:
Fascinating that Jerry doesn't really use the stick with seeing the 3rd choice..its just his talent.


These comments have encouraged me to take a closer look at that moment, so another chapter quote seems in order.
Quote:
"Wait a minute," Jeremiah murmured. Ebony tendrils curled across the pond. They searched along the far wall. But he did not say more; and the alarm clamoring in Linden's ears prevented her from heeding him.
_________________________
"Wait a minute," Jeremiah said again.
Everyone ignored him.
_________________________
"I said, wait a minute!" Jeremiah demanded more strongly. "You aren't paying attention."

Fierce as a blow, Covenant wheeled away from the Feroce. Bracing his fists on his hips, he glared past the spread of Giants and the mouth of the downward chute. "Hellfire, Jeremiah! Paying attention to what?"

Jeremiah faced Linden rather than Covenant. "Look, Mom." Black fire played across the spout of fouled water, skirled up the seam of the wall. "Look."

Linden stared at him, thinking, Don't push me. I can't.
But he was her son. She could not refuse him. Trembling privately at the prospect of maggots, spiders, worms, she asked Frostheart Grueburn to put her down. When she stood beside Jeremiah, close enough to borrow some of the Staff's Earthpower, she turned her senses toward the fused stone. Alarm hampered her, but she forced it aside. Unsteadily she directed her percipience into the water; into the wall.
There.
Instinctively she recoiled; closed her throat against a moan.
The rock along the seam was thin. It looked thin enough to break. And beyond it--
She bit her lip until she drew blood.
--stretched a different fissure, a wedge with its tip at the seam. It was narrow, but it widened into the distance until it passed beyond her discernment. And it was full of water.
No, she realized a heartbeat later, not full. Everywhere under Mount Thunder, the Soulsease had shrunk to a fraction of its former flow. Before that, it had been a mighty torrent. That hidden fissure had indeed been full. And the cave itself had been full as well: a fact which probably explained why the weight of water had not broken through the seam ages ago. The cave had served to equalize the pressure. But now--
Ah, now the level behind the wall had dropped. The fissure had emptied itself until the water stood, waiting to drain, little more than the height of a Giant above the pond. If the rock broke, the issuing flood would be fierce. Still the Giants might be able to withstand it. Stave and Branl might. When the river found a new level, a new equilibrium, the company might be able to ascend against it.
Writ in water. God help me.
Linden was not ready. She would never be ready.

"Linden?" Covenant called in frustration. "Jeremiah? What is it? Damn it, I can't see."

In a voice so small that she hardly heard it herself, Linden answered, "That wall is thin. There's a crevice behind it. I can't tell how high the crack is, or how far it goes. But if we break the wall--"
She did not have the courage to say more.

"That's it," Jeremiah confirmed more loudly. "That's the way. We can go there."


Jeremiah's talent for constructs may well have helped him see the way out first, but it's clearly aided by the Staff's power.


lurch wrote:
And as before, Jeremiah's vision has to be made loud above the din of wtf and chaos of 2 bad choices.


Without a doubt!


lurch wrote:
The feroce redeem themselves in this chapter. Their value ..well heck..priceless. And to think at one time Linden feared these little schitts ( literally) enough to panic.


As for the value of the Feroce, right now it could be said they're worth the universe. If the company can't make it in time to stop Foul, there's no place that will be safe from him. And without the Feroce, the company probably wouldn't have survived passing the lurker's god, let alone chosen the right water path to gain the Wightwarrens. Covenant's plan to approach Lord Foul from a new direction would have come to naught, without them.


lurch wrote:
[The rising water of this chapter is perhaps a hint and serves well to put an awareness into the reader that..yea..we're in to Part Two now..and there is only so many pages left. Expect the unexpected from here on out.



We're about 75% done with the book, so the ride will probably be wilder from here on out!
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lurch wrote:
Thank You Cord for a great synopsis

I second that notion!

I think that this chapter has a certain amount of novelty. In stories, fantasy stories, going underground into caves is cliché beyond measure. But this, this journey in the riverbed abandoned by it's river, is rather unique. The opportunities for descriptive passages are not mundane, not any kind of "same old".

Remember that Linden herself set this up, two books ago, when she diverted the waters escaping the Lost Deep. It's all a meticulous plot.

- - - - -

In The Last Dark was wrote:
She had chosen her task. It was necessary to her, the only choice that offered any hope of forgiveness. But it would not stop the Worm. It would not hinder Lord Foul, or save her friends, or spare her son.

Here, Linden is of course speaking of her need, coming soon, to leave everyone and face her deepest fear.

Given the attitudes explored in the previous chapter, we can assume that her "chosen task" (And that's The Chosen's chosen task, mind), since it isn't going to "save the world", is chosen because it is standing up for what Linden believes in, it is Linden being true to herself. Somehow this act is necessary, and consists of facing her fears, and also being true to herself ...

... and also offering a hope of forgiveness. Who's forgiveness? Who's forgiveness does Linden need?

We must come back, when we know, and explore these questions.

(I worry that Linden seeks to redeem herself for past actions. Hence, 'forgiveness' here refers to her earning some forgiveness, that she stands in some sort of moral debt that must be repaid.)

- - - - -

In The Last Dark was wrote:
But she had surrendered the Staff because Jeremiah needed it more than she did. Eventually he might need it absolutely. He had to become stronger. If she took back her trust prematurely—if she made his challenge easier from the start—she would undermine his efforts to believe in himself..

I talked about the journey set before Jeremiah in the discussion of the previous chapter. If you think about it, poor Jeremiah has to cover all the same ground as Linden and Covenant, to traverse the entire road from despair and ineffectuality to strength and hope in a mere few days. In a mere one book.

Dire measures are required for his advancement. His facility with the Staff is a direct measure of his progress.

And, as we can see, Linden sees this. She knows. Jeremiah has a very short time in which to be made strong. There can be no mistakes, there is scant chance to practice.

- - - - -

Cord Hurn wrote:
Linden finds her inner door to wield wild magic as Furledsail moves with her into the polluted pond toward the seams around the fused rock.

It's impossible to not spot a similarity between this scene, and the scene in FR when Linden shatters rock to release the waters and escape SWMNBN. Both times, a Linden-blast is needed to change the course of the waters under Mt. Thunder.

But whereas she used her Staff last time, this time she uses wild magic. This is a complimentary act, as well as similar.

Indeed, she diverted the waters to escape Mt. Thunder previously, while this time she diverted the waters to enter it. The Staff of Law gets you out of trouble, while wild magic gets you into it.

Also the same, the nearness of SWMNBN is having it's deleterious effect on Linden. Her spoor crushes Linden. Spiritually. If things aren't managed correctly, or if Linden isn't stronger, we're looking at Linden going comatose again.

Cord Hurn wrote:
It seems that sometimes the humorous bravado of Giants in the face of danger and loss can seem too ridiculous even for other Giants (at least momentarily).

Not bravado. Badinage and bravado.

badinage: n. humorous or witty conversation.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for your reply and your insights, wayfriend!

wayfriend wrote:
But this, this journey in the riverbed abandoned by it's river, is rather unique. The opportunities for descriptive passages are not mundane, not any kind of "same old".


Quote:
At first, the watercourse became narrower, ascending in low stages like terraces or past obstructions like weirs. Beyond the Ironhand--beyond Stoutgirth, Covenant, and Branl--the Feroce clambered, elusive as eidolons, over a tumble of boulders barely wide enough to accomidate the Giants in single file. Long ages of poisons and leaking malice had pitted the stone, cut it into cruel shapes, left it brittle with corrosion. But the waters had also caked every surface with slime like scum. And wherever the tumult of the currents had left gaps, necrotic mosses clung, viscid as wax, treacherous as grease. Touching them would be like trailing fingers through pus.

While the passage narrowed, however, its ceiling stretched higher. Here the Defiles Course ran down a fissure in Mount Thunder's substance. a few arm spans up the walls, the green of the Feroce gleamed sickly on moisture and moss: the residue of the river's former flow. Above that demarcation, the krill's argent faded into the dark.

The crevice was old: far older than Linden's knowledge of the Land. It had endured for eons, perhaps ever siche the convulsion which had created Landsdrop. It might continue to do so. Nevertheless the gutrock overhead seemed fragile. The clutter of boulders where the Feroce led the companions demonstrated that stones did fall.


I think so, too. There's something about the companions treading where no air-breathers have gone before that makes this journey more novel; it gives the journey more of a tone of awe and danger.


wayfriend wrote:
... and also offering a hope of forgiveness. Who's forgiveness? Who's forgiveness does Linden need?


She's made some mistakes in the Last Chronicles, so there's a few possibilities:

In The Runes of the Earth Part I Chapter 5 was wrote:
Fearing Liand's answer, she asked, "How often do you see Falls?"

He shrugged uncomfortably. "We cannot foretell them. They are not constant. However, the interval between them is commonly measured in years. Some pass, harmless across the Plains. Others disappear among the mountains, or emerge from them. It is rare that a Fall enters this valley."

As he spoke, Linden winced at an abrupt flash of intuition. Caesures had begun to afflict the Land, say, ninety years ago. Covenant had told her that roughly a year passed in the Land for every day in her ordinary world. And three months had passed since she had restored a white gold ring--

Was it possible? Behind Liand's shrouded form, and the blank stone walls, and the gloom, Linden seemed to hear Roger's mother in her hospital bed raising her fist against herself. Had Lord Foul taken hold of Joan's mind so completely that she had been able to reach across the barrier between realities with wild magic? Had Joan caused the Falls by beating out her pain on the bones of her temple?

If so, the danger was about to get a lot worse. She was here now; able to strike directly at the Land.

And Linden was inadvertently responsible. Nothing in her experience had prepared her for the possibility that Joan's madness might have power across such distances.



In Fatal Revenant Part II Chapter 5 was wrote:
The walk back to Lord's Keep seemed unnaturally long to Linden. She had gone farther from herself than she realized. Neither Stave nor the escorting Humbled spoke: she did not speak herself. The night was mute except for the sound of her boots on the hard ground. Yet the Mahdoubt's giggling seemed to follow every step. In restrospect, Linden felt that she had wasted her friend's life.



In Against All Things Ending, Part I Chapter 1 was wrote:
"You haven't done anything wrong. This is my fault. I was too weak."
He meant, I was too human. Even living in the Arch, I couldn't watch you suffer and let you think you were all alone.
I would spare you the cost of what you've done if I knew how.

"Anything wrong?" snapped Infelice. "You rave, Timewarden. Your transformation is an immitigable evil. It has undone you. Do you not see that she has wrought the destruction of the Earth?"



In Against All Things Ending, Part I Chapter 2 was wrote:
Berek was right about her: she had become a kind of Gallows Howe. The sorrow that she had felt for Kevin Landwaster was like Caerroil Wildwood's grief for his trees--and for his future. It remained with her; but its implied vulnerability had already bled away into soil made barren by death. Like the former Forestal of Garroting Deep, she was aghast at the scale of her own inadequacy. But she had none of his fury, and no one to blame. She was too full of dismay to consider Elena's frailty.

Perhaps Elena understood the gift which Berek, Damelon, and Loric had given Kevin. Her spirit as she avoided Linden's gaze seemed to yearn for some forgiving touch. In her, hope was commingled with a raw fear that she would be refused.

But Linden had gone too far beyond hope and despair to comfort Elena. Covenant's daughter needed his consolation, not Linden's.

In a low voice, taut and bitter, she demanded, "Stop feeling sorry for yourself." She was speaking to herself as much as to Elena's woe. "It doesn't accomplish anything. You've suffered enough. Tell me what to do now."

Tell me how to bear what I've done.

She needed an answer. But apparently she--like Elena herself--had misjudged the Dead. In a different form, Elena may have once aided Covenant: she had no aid to offer now. Instead an echo of Linden's dismay twisted her features. Raising her face to the doomed stars, she uttered a wail of desolation: the stark cry of a woman whose wracked heart had been denied.
Then she flared briefly in the krill's light and vanished, following the distant ancestors of her High Lordship out of the vale; out of the night.

From the bottom of the hollow, Linden's friends gazed at her as if she had smitten their hearts. Infelice's distress matched the outrage of the Humbled.

"Elena!" Linden cried urgently. "Come back! I need you!" But her appeal died, forlorn, among the benighted trees, and found no reply.



In Against All Things Ending, Part II Chapter 4 was wrote:
"Pahni!" Now the Manethrall's voice cracked like a whip. "Compose yourself! Is this the conduct of a Cord?"

Still she ignored him. In jagged gasps, she demanded, "You must restore him!"

Shaken, Linden hardly heard herself protest, "I can't."

"You must! yelled Pahni. "He is my love! And his death is needless! He has given himself in your name, and it is needless!"

"Pahni!" Mahrtiir urged. With both hands, he reached out to restrain or embrace her.

So fluidly that Linden scarcely saw her move, Pahni snapped her garrote around the Manethrall's wrists, jerked them together. In the same motion, she sprang past Mahrtiir and raised her arms over her head; used her fighting cord to flip him off his feet.

Branl caught him before he struck the ground. Clyme positioned himself to ward off a following attack.

But Pahni had already returned to Linden. She held her garrote ready for Linden's throat.

"You will heed me, Ringthane!" she shouted like the pelting hailstones. "In Andelain, you restored your own love! Now you will return mine to me! Every instrument is present. White gold. The Staff of Law. The krill of High Lord Loric. And there--she did not drop her hands--"lies Liand slain!
"Are you heartless? I know that you are not! Therefore you must renew his life!"

Mahrtiir had regained his feet. Now he showed his own speed. Blind, he moved unerringly to grasp Pahni's garrote between her fists. Then he was behind her. Pulling on her cord, he bent her arms until he could pin them with his own.

"Pahni," groaned Bhapa. "Oh, Pahni." Refused weeping clogged his voice. "You must not. You must not."

"Ringthane!" The young Cord thrashed against Mahrtiir's clasp. "You will heed me!"

Her every word left wounds like the scoring of claws.

"I can't," Linden said again. Abruptly she dropped her Staff. As if she were striking herself, she snatched Covenant's ring out of her picket and hurled it to the dirt. Then she went to wrap her arms around Pahni and Mahrtiir.

"I would if I could," she breathed like a moan in Pahni's ear. "For you, I would. Even if I didn't love him myself." Even if she had not violated so many Laws. "But I can't I just can't.
"I don't know where he is."

For a moment, the Cord paused to listen. Then she began to fight again. "He is there!" she cried as if she wanted to sink her teeth into Linden's throat. "His body lies there!"

"I know." Like Bhapa, Linden refused weeping. "I know that. But I don't know where his spirit is.

"In Andelain, Covenant was right in front of me. I didn't need his body because his spirit was there." It implied every aspect of his lost flesh. "He was still himself. But all I have now is Liand's body. I can't call his spirit back," even if she could have repaired his skull, "because I don't know where it is

"Maybe he's among the Dead in Andelain. I hope so. But I can't reach that far. I can't locate him, never mind ask him to live again. And I can't create a new soul for his poor body out of empty air. I don't know how." She had learned none of the lore of the Old Lords. Even the meaning of Caerroil Wildwood's runes mystified her. "Whatever I made--if I could make anything at all--it wouldn't be Liand."

This time, the sound of his name in her own mouth went through her like a spear. It seemed to repeat the moment of his destruction: the brutal slap of Anele's hands; the sudden rage of lava; the ravage of bone and blood and brain. Gasping, she clenched her teeth, bit down on her pain, so that she would not cry out in Pahni's ear.

Briefly Pahni continued to writhe against Mahrtiir's embrace, and Linden's. Then, so suddenly that she appeared to stop breathing, the Cord went limp.

Imagining that Pahni had fainted, Linden released her. The Manethrall eased his clasp; shifted his feet so that he could scoop the Cord into his arms.

In that instant, Pahni spun free. Fiercely she threw a punch at Linden's face: a blow that would have staggered Linden if Stave had not deflected it. Instead Pahni's knuckles only clipped Linden's cheek; jolted her. Phosphenes like lightning flashed across her sight and were gone.

Wailing, "He is my love!" Pahni fled.


So, whose forgiveness does she desire, that of Covenant, Infelice, the Mahdoubt, Elena, or Pahni? At this point in the story, it's not quite clear.


wayfriend wrote:
(I worry that Linden seeks to redeem herself for past actions. Hence, 'forgiveness' here refers to her earning some forgiveness, that she stands in some sort of moral debt that must be repaid.)

It's something to be concerned about, for Stave has warned her this feeling of responsibility could turn her into another Kevin.


wayfriend wrote:
And, as we can see, Linden sees this. She knows. Jeremiah has a very short time in which to be made strong. There can be no mistakes, there is scant chance to practice.


The stakes are high enough that the pressure on Jeremiah to mature quickly is enormous. But no doubt he needs some project like the Staff to keep his sense of helplessness concerning the Worm at bay.



wayfriend wrote:
It's impossible to not spot a similarity between this scene, and the scene in FR when Linden shatters rock to release the waters and escape SWMNBN. Both times, a Linden-blast is needed to change the course of the waters under Mt. Thunder.

But whereas she used her Staff last time, this time she uses wild magic. This is a complimentary act, as well as similar.

Indeed, she diverted the waters to escape Mt. Thunder previously, while this time she diverted the waters to enter it. The Staff of Law gets you out of trouble, while wild magic gets you into it.



It was in the eleventh chapter of AATE Part I. There's similarity, as you have said. And there's another difference besides the instrument of power being used. Linden succumbs to the bane after releasing the waters of the Soulsease into the Lost Deep. Here, although she's outwardly stunned, she crows in triumph as a result of her victory. I suppose that could be due to white gold enabling her to liberate her passion. White Gold


wayfriend wrote:
Not bravado. Badinage and bravado.
badinage: n. humorous or witty conversation.


I was sort of hoping I'd covered myself by using the phrase "humorous bravado." But you're right; I was paraphrasing, perhaps too much.

Anyway, thanks so much for your response! I bow to your superior vocabulary skills (and Donaldson's too, of course)! Ahh!
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lurch wrote:
The Humorous Giants also fill their obligation in keeping Linden from drowning. The visual of her being tossed around..echoes much more positively than when Stave was handled such.


The Giants seem a lot more confident in this endeavor, don't they? (The image of Hurl catching and tossing Linden while treading deep water is mighty impressive!) Perhaps the most important difference here is that Linden is not falling from a great height. Then again, it could be that sailors are better at catching and tossing than are warriors.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cord Hurn wrote:
wayfriend wrote:
... and also offering a hope of forgiveness. Who's forgiveness? Who's forgiveness does Linden need?
She's made some mistakes in the Last Chronicles, so there's a few possibilities:

Yes, yes, yes. There is a lengthy list of things that Linden is responsible for. (How THOOLAH to remind us, and so thoroughly! Wink ) But, after her marriage to Thomas, and the discussions about forgiveness that she and Thomas had at that time, not to mention between herself and her son, it seemed that she no longer was so hard on herself, that she didn't blame herself for everything that happened. That she had learned how to forgive herself. This is why I do not understand her comment about forgiveness at this point. It makes me think that the forgiveness she seeks comes from someone else, or something else. Or maybe that it is someone else, or something else, that needs forgiveness.
    She had chosen her task. It was necessary to her, the only choice that offered any hope of forgiveness.
One possible interpretation is that there are several tasks she might choose from, and all but one of them are unforgivable.

Cord Hurn wrote:
But you're right; I was paraphrasing, perhaps too much.

Oh, I was just looking for an excuse to mention the new word of the day.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayfriend wrote:
(How THOOLAH to remind us, and so thoroughly! Wink )


Razz Yeah, I'll have to restore my OPAL credentials by pointing out that Linden is brave to keep facing the fear of possession by the Bane's power, which seems to be getting stronger as they go upriver--it's as if when Linden opened that ceiling, it's allowed more of the Bane's essence to waft upward through Mount Thunder. She's got guts, that Linden Ringthane!
Quote:
"The Feroce were right," Covenant grumbled. "The lurker's god is crazy. That knife can cut anything." He peered into the darkness of the chute. "Now I'm worried. We don't know what's up there. We're going to need those creatures."

"They've come this far," Linden sighed. In spite of their fears--"If they don't rejoin us, it's because they can't."

"I know." Tension throbbed in Covenant's voice. His arms were getting tired. He would not be able to cling to the Ironhand's back indefinitely. But Coldspray would need her hands to help her defy the weight of the river. Grueburn and Kindwind would need their hands. "I just want to bitch for a while."

"Timewarden," Rime Coldspray replied like a reprimand, your tales are foreshortened beyond sufferance. They are ended ere I am able to hear joy in them. And you employ words strangely. 'Bitch,' forsooth. I will deem it a courtesy if you will refrain until we are better able to heed you."

Covenant gave Linden a twisted smile, rolled his eyes. "Have it your way. I'll do my complaining when we find the damn Despiser."

"And another," sighed the Ironhand. "Is there no limit to your brevity?"

Linden wished that Covenant could laugh. She wanted to laugh herself. But she did not have it in her. The spray promised carrion. It implied horror. Evan in the constriction of the flume, the sensations were oblique. Nevertheless they were getting stronger.


The Haruchai continue to prove their size belies their incredible physical abilities.

Quote:
The passage should have been impossible for the Haruchai. Water that reached the Giants' knees struck Stave and Branl above their waists. Nevertheless the two men forged ahead as if they were incapable of faltering. The krill in Branl's grasp did not waver. He and /stave carried their cumbersome swords like men who had spent decades training with such weapons.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
"And another," sighed the Ironhand. "Is there no limit to your brevity?"


I find this a funny question. Very Happy Is there no limit to your limited tales?
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayfriend wrote:
Oh, I was just looking for an excuse to mention the new word of the day.


A noble goal! I'm going to point out that the geometric term oblique (referring to a relationship between two lines that is neither parallel nor perpendicular) is used by SRD to mean a reference that is indirect enough to be glancing, almost misdirecting, rather hard to pinpoint at the source of it.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lurch wrote:
Change brings forth a positive..Linden's " decisions" made in the previous chapter begin to pay off in this chapter. Jerry's maturing will be at his own making and sure enough his vision comes as a surprise,,not expected in ways thought by Linden..Again a sly definition of the Surreal,",MAGNIFICENCE ",,there.


Quite right, lurch! After the initial crisis of Jeremiah's control faltering early in the chapter, Jeremiah becomes so skilled that Linden begins to underestimate him.

Quote:
Linden hesitated, unsure of her son. But Jeremiah asked for the Staff without prompting. "I feel better now," he assured her. "I want to practice.: He faced her squarely, held her gaze. "But maybe you shouldn't help me anymore. You make it too easy. I dona't have to push myself when you're doing half the work."

She winced. He was right, of course. He had to make himself stronger; jad to earn his inheritance. But she already knew that she was going to abandon him again. She was even going to abandon Covenant. And when she did, she would leave without any hope that she might ever return.

Her hands shool as she passed the Staff to her son. Unclosing her fingers required an act of will.

His attention shifted at once to the wood; but she continued to gaze at him, clinging. Carefully she said, "I'm proud of you. Do you know that?"

"Sure, Mom." His tone made it clear that he was not listening.


Even though he keeps taking on tasks requiring increasing dedication and maturity, I like that Jeremiah still sounds like a believably dismissive adolescent, who doesn't want too much protectiveness.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayfriend wrote:
This is why I do not understand her comment about forgiveness at this point. It makes me think that the forgiveness she seeks comes from someone else, or something else. Or maybe that it is someone else, or something else, that needs forgiveness. She had chosen her task. It was necessary to her, the only choice that offered any hope of forgiveness.One possible interpretation is that there are several tasks she might choose from, and all but one of them are unforgivable.



These are all credible interpretations; I'll have to give you that! Good Post
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