2015 Hugo Awards Discussion

Fist and Faith · Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 3:57 pm Post subject:

Frank was often to complex for me. I had no idea why a lot of the characters did the things they did. Even in the first book, which I consider to be as good a book as was ever written. The stuff KJA and Brian wrote was much easier to follow. Laughing

Still, there was some great stuff. All the parts with Fenring's wife were great. The evil of the Harkonnens was made even more clear. DAMN! The axlotyl tanks.

The final two books were... I don't know how they can say they followed fairly extensive notes found in a safe deposit box. Either it's a lie, or Frank seriously changed his mind. I can actually believe what happened with Duncan. Frank probably didn't have him around all that time for no reason. But the two old Face Dancers at the end of Chapterhouse couldn't have been that.
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I'm Murrin · Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:27 pm Post subject:

I wouldn't usually do this, but this is getting a long way off topic. Perhaps you folks might want to start a new thread to discuss the pros and cons of the extended Dune series?

I've been looking around a little for responses from those on the Sad/Rabid Puppies slate to being nominated. Seems the ones who are better known and popular on their own are avoiding making comment either way.
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Orlion · Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:35 pm Post subject:

I'm Murrin · Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:57 pm Post subject:

Looks like he's begun to do so.

http://grrm.livejournal.com/417125.html

Comes out against the slate, not for the politics behind it but for what it's done to the awards. Says there's more to follow.
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[Syl] · Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 11:48 pm Post subject:

Leave it to Martin to say something in three installments that really only needed one.
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aliantha · Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:12 am Post subject:

MsMary · Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 5:17 am Post subject:

Avatar · Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 5:32 am Post subject:

--A
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Orlion · Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:21 pm Post subject:

I'm wondering if, in a sense, this has not all ready happened in the Hugos... just on a much smaller scale.

I'm refering to the Television Award where everyone every year rolls their eyes and say something along the lines of "sigh, looks like it's Doctor Who again..."

Which is probably how this needs to be looked at: if the Hugos as a whole become so predictable and blaise, they cease to have any meaning. Kinda like how the World Series in Baseball sucked for a while because...sigh... it's the Yankees again.
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I'm Murrin · Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:49 pm Post subject:

I couldn't help myself.
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Fist and Faith · Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:36 pm Post subject:

That doesn't make any sense at all. You didn't mention Dune once.
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We are not required to save the world. We are required to stand up as truly as we can for what we love. -SRD

All lies and jest
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Orlion · Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 5:38 pm Post subject:

I'm Murrin · Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:20 pm Post subject:

I kinda toned down that side of it; it's true that it can only take about 60 noms to get onto the ballot, and you don't have to talk all that many people into voting for a work - it wouldn't need to be something as big and obvious as the Puppies are doing.

I seriously doubt that those accusations are true, however - I think Worldcon fandom is a relatively small group, with a lot of friendships involved, and I think fans generally have a tendency to want to tell each other about the things they enjoy. So naturally a buzz gets going among certain circles in the Worldcon fandom and that gets an item onto the ballot. But there's nothing shady or wrong about that.

What gets me is all these comments about how works on the ballot last year didn't get there by merit, and nobody would've chosen them, when they are legitimately some of the best stories I read all year. The Water That Falls on You From Nowhere was incredible. They're pointing at my tastes and saying I can't possibly really like that more than their stuff.
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Orlion · Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:25 pm Post subject:

I'm Murrin · Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:37 pm Post subject:

Yeah, some people take issue with the fact that there were a couple of stories which took a single speculative element and used it mainly to explore something more mundane and personal. They seem to think something has to be all-out genre tropes (especially sci fi tropes) to count.
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[Syl] · Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 1:17 am Post subject:

To argue the other way slightly, I'm not sure that's what they're saying. It seems to me like they're saying that while you may like it, you are not representative of the community as a whole and that you (or those who share your tastes) have more clout than is deserved. I sympathize a little bit, because very few of the nominees the last couple of years have interested me. But then, historically the Hugo nominees have always appealed to me slightly less than the Nebulas, and those are misses for me as often as not.
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"It is not the literal past that rules us, save, possibly, in a biological sense. It is images of the past. Each new historical era mirrors itself in the picture and active mythology of its past or of a past borrowed from other cultures. It tests its sense of identity, of regress or new achievement against that past.”
-George Steiner

I'm Murrin · Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 9:59 am Post subject:

I don't want to write another blog post about this,but I do want to say some more about it.

Firstly, everyone commenting on this is talking about the Sad Puppies slate, when it seems very possible that it was Theodore Beale/Vox Day's Rabid Puppies that took the awards. We'll need the full nominations to know for sure.

Second, a lot of response from the originators of the SP slate have made fuss about critics calling them racist, sexist, etc,claiming there is no basis for this. This is not a straightforward issue, but the fact is that a lot of the backlash this year is tied up with the slate they ran last year, which included and supported Vox Day, an individual who makes no secret of being racist, anti-women's rights, and so forth. This year's slate is indeed more diverse and less toxic than last year's, however, there is still that history of association, there is the inclusion of works from Vox Day's publishing house, and there's the inclusion of John C Wright, a writer widely deplored for his comments on homosexuality. I don't believe the Sad Puppies have disavowed Vox Day, only pointed out that he's not (directly) on their slate this time.

Of course, by criticising them for association with bigots, by not wanting to reward anyone who would support the kind of vitriol spouted by Wright and Day, I'm committing that cardinal sin of voting based on politics and not the quality of the work, right?
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Orlion · Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 2:19 pm Post subject:

aliantha · Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 5:34 pm Post subject:

I get the same feeling about it, Orlion. I'd have a different opinion if the Sad/Rabid Puppies (take yer pick) hadn't rallied supporters to purchase non-attending memberships just so they could vote. That they did so tells me that their interest is solely in stuffing the ballot box. They have very little interest in the con -- all they care about is the awards.
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