Kevin's Watch Forum Index
 HomeHome   MemberlistMemberlist   RegisterRegister   SearchSearch   ProfileProfile   FAQFAQ   StatisticsStatistics  SudokuSudoku   Phoogle MapPhoogle Map 
 AlbumAlbum StoresStores   StoresItems Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Beethoven
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Kevin's Watch Forum Index -> Andelain -> Vespers
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Fist and Faith
Magister Vitae


Joined: 01 Dec 2002
Posts: 18491

Thanks: 100
Thanked 97 Times in 93 Posts


10527 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Foul Duck1 Lord Mhoram's Victory1 2011 Watchies


PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2004 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, Beethoven's popular/famous piano sonatas are among those rare compositions that fully deserves its fame! Incredible stuff!

His late sonatas, like all of his late works, are huge, complex, and amazing. Not the place to start his sonatas, but, like his quartets, perhaps the pinnacle of the genre. The Hammerklavier is mindblowing! I had Alfred Brendel's performance on the Vox Box label (a budget label, btw) on in-store play one day, and was literally laughing for joy as it played!
_________________
We are not required to save the world. We are required to stand up as truly as we can for what we love. -SRD

All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest
-Paul Simon
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger Phoogle Map
Damelon
Lord


Joined: 13 Dec 2002
Posts: 8076

Thanks: 11
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts

Location: Illinois
2207 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of Linden's Army1 Rivenrock1 Coercri


PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, Beethoven's Piano Concertos are worth owning. He wrote 5 of them. No 5, called the Emperor concerto is the best known, but No. 4 is also very good. I love the middle movement of No. 4, where the piano and the orchestra seem to conflict, each taking turns with their own line of music, with the orchestra's replys gradually becoming more subdued.
_________________
But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown. ~ Carl Sagan

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
duchess of malfi
Mother of Dragons, Slayer of Lies

Female
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 11104

Thanks: 37
Thanked 31 Times in 28 Posts

Location: Michigan, USA
11354 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Rubber Duck1 Foul Duck1 2007 Watchies


PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having never tried his piano concertos, I made a trip up to Borders today and found #4 and #5 on one disc. Cool
_________________
Love as thou wilt.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Damelon
Lord


Joined: 13 Dec 2002
Posts: 8076

Thanks: 11
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts

Location: Illinois
2207 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of Linden's Army1 Rivenrock1 Coercri


PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good job, Duchess. Smile
_________________
But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown. ~ Carl Sagan

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Fist and Faith
Magister Vitae


Joined: 01 Dec 2002
Posts: 18491

Thanks: 100
Thanked 97 Times in 93 Posts


10527 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Foul Duck1 Lord Mhoram's Victory1 2011 Watchies


PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not as familiar with the first two, but the 3rd is also fantastic. Just a little anecdote... I have Serkin playing them on the Telarc label, Ozawa conducting. At one point a few minutes into the 1st movement, there's a weird, faint noise. Such things annoy me, and the noises that creep into lp's after repeated use is why I never collected them. Anyway, I played this section of the cd over and over, until I realized what it was - the orchestra turning their pages!! That kind of noise I can live with. Very Happy


I also have Tan playing them, Norrington conducting, for the period-performance lover in me. Smile
_________________
We are not required to save the world. We are required to stand up as truly as we can for what we love. -SRD

All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest
-Paul Simon
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger Phoogle Map
matrixman
cheek turner


Joined: 10 Jul 2003
Posts: 8361

Thanks: 6
Thanked 28 Times in 27 Posts


8348 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orchestra turning the pages? How dare they! Can't they just memorize the whole thing? Mr. Green

I never really appreciated the piano concerto musical form until I heard Beethoven's Emperor. The piece blew me away. Or at least that particular interpretation blew me away: it was Claudio Arrau on piano, with Sir Colin Davis and the Dresden State Orchestra. It's been remastered and paired with Piano Concerto No. 4, so I'm a happy camper. Very Happy

Stupid Anecdote: on an episode of the defunct series Seaquest DSV, the crew of the futuristic vessel is on the bridge, mesmerized by a piece of music playing through the ship's speaker, apparently something from old Earth history. Nodding in recognition, the sagacious Captain informs his crew: "That's Bach. The Emperor Concerto." Rolling Eyes
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger Phoogle Map
Fist and Faith
Magister Vitae


Joined: 01 Dec 2002
Posts: 18491

Thanks: 100
Thanked 97 Times in 93 Posts


10527 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Foul Duck1 Lord Mhoram's Victory1 2011 Watchies


PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 2:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never saw the show. Didn't know it was in the way future. But still, did they screw up, or was it supposed to be a joke for us?
_________________
We are not required to save the world. We are required to stand up as truly as we can for what we love. -SRD

All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest
-Paul Simon
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger Phoogle Map
matrixman
cheek turner


Joined: 10 Jul 2003
Posts: 8361

Thanks: 6
Thanked 28 Times in 27 Posts


8348 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They screwed up. I don't have the show on tape or anything, but I seem to recall that the Captain was actually correcting a crewmember who had guessed a different composer.

Maybe the production staff inserted whatever classical music they had on hand and just didn't bother to verify the composer. "Bach, Beethoven, ah whatever." Rolling Eyes

But I enjoyed Seaquest's brief run, silly as it was. Too bad its writers' knowledge of science was as lazy as their knowledge of composers.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger Phoogle Map
duchess of malfi
Mother of Dragons, Slayer of Lies

Female
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 11104

Thanks: 37
Thanked 31 Times in 28 Posts

Location: Michigan, USA
11354 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Rubber Duck1 Foul Duck1 2007 Watchies


PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2004 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those piano concertos I picked up (nos. 4 &5) kicked some serious butt, by the way. Smile

_________________
Love as thou wilt.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
matrixman
cheek turner


Joined: 10 Jul 2003
Posts: 8361

Thanks: 6
Thanked 28 Times in 27 Posts


8348 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2004 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very cool, duchess. I love that emoticon!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger Phoogle Map
Worm of Despite
Banned

Male
Joined: 26 Oct 2002
Posts: 9546

Thanks: 4
Thanked 25 Times in 22 Posts

Location: Rome, GA
12320 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
2 Foul Duck1 Furls Fire


PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very interesting story about getting Beethoven to perform:

http://www.lucare.com/immortal/perform.html
_________________
"I support the destruction of the Think-Tank." - Avatar, August 2008
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Damelon
Lord


Joined: 13 Dec 2002
Posts: 8076

Thanks: 11
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts

Location: Illinois
2207 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of Linden's Army1 Rivenrock1 Coercri


PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love the slow movement of the 4th concerto. Cool
_________________
But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown. ~ Carl Sagan

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Worm of Despite
Banned

Male
Joined: 26 Oct 2002
Posts: 9546

Thanks: 4
Thanked 25 Times in 22 Posts

Location: Rome, GA
12320 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
2 Foul Duck1 Furls Fire


PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2004 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After spending considerable time with the symphonies (they came in the mail a couple days ago), here’s how I rank 'em so far:

1. Symphony No. 9 "Choral" (love every single movement)
2. Symphony No. 3 "Eroica" (this one is still kind of new to me, but boy, what a first impression!)
3. Symphony No. 5 (powerful stuff)
4. Symphony No. 7 (love that 2nd movement)
5. Symphony No. 6 "Pastoral" (beautiful portrait of spring)
6. Symphony No. 4 (kind of gets a bad rap because it's between the 3rd and 5th, but it's just as masterful in its own way)
7. Symphony No. 1 (very stirring)
8. Symphony No. 8 (very fun symphony, but no earth-shattering proclamation like the 9th or 3rd, though I suppose that's not what it's trying to accomplish)
9. Symphony No. 2 (only one I haven't thought much of, but then again, I haven't listened to much of it either)
_________________
"I support the destruction of the Think-Tank." - Avatar, August 2008
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
matrixman
cheek turner


Joined: 10 Jul 2003
Posts: 8361

Thanks: 6
Thanked 28 Times in 27 Posts


8348 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2004 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad the First Symphony caught your ear, Lord Foul. It tends to be overlooked. I agree, it's a stirring work.

The Second Symphony does seem kinda flat in comparison. I could never really get into it myself.

The thing that strikes me about Nos. 3, 5, 7 & 9 is how great and self-contained their first movements are. Each opening movement is like a complete musical world by itself. It's been said that the 9th's first movement describes both creation and destruction, all in the space of 15 minutes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger Phoogle Map
Worm of Despite
Banned

Male
Joined: 26 Oct 2002
Posts: 9546

Thanks: 4
Thanked 25 Times in 22 Posts

Location: Rome, GA
12320 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
2 Foul Duck1 Furls Fire


PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2004 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally, I find the 2nd movement of the 9th to be my favorite. I don't know what about it I like the most. The way it just moves so rapidly--dances, almost. It starts with a bang, too--hits you the second it's out the gate. And then after that initial hit it's rather quiet, but geez, what a build-up! Throughout the entire 9th symphony I always had the feeling of Beethoven trying to surpass even himself, shedding blood over every note.
_________________
"I support the destruction of the Think-Tank." - Avatar, August 2008
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Fist and Faith
Magister Vitae


Joined: 01 Dec 2002
Posts: 18491

Thanks: 100
Thanked 97 Times in 93 Posts


10527 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Foul Duck1 Lord Mhoram's Victory1 2011 Watchies


PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes! The 2nd movement of the 9th is great! The timpani as part of the melody! Very Happy And the 1st movement cannot possibly get enough praise!

And as I said in chat, the 2nd of the 7th!!! OH BABY!!!

Ya know, the 2nd of the 5th doesn't suck either.

And if you saw - and more important, could follow the horrifying penmanship - of his notebooks, you'd see that he did, literally (you know, the figurative kind of literally), shed blood over every note. Beethoven is the very definition of "10% inspiration, 90% perspiration." Or whatever the %'s are supposed to be.

And since I brought it up Smile, and I think I've mentioned it before, his notebooks show that he composed more than one piece at a time. Working on one for a while, then another, going back and forth. Except when he was writing string quartets. They got his undivided attention! Which makes sense, what with them being the greatest music in the history of music, and all.
_________________
We are not required to save the world. We are required to stand up as truly as we can for what we love. -SRD

All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest
-Paul Simon
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger Phoogle Map
duchess of malfi
Mother of Dragons, Slayer of Lies

Female
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 11104

Thanks: 37
Thanked 31 Times in 28 Posts

Location: Michigan, USA
11354 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Rubber Duck1 Foul Duck1 2007 Watchies


PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Foul wrote:
Personally, I find the 2nd movement of the 9th to be my favorite. I don't know what about it I like the most. The way it just moves so rapidly--dances, almost. It starts with a bang, too--hits you the second it's out the gate. And then after that initial hit it's rather quiet, but geez, what a build-up! Throughout the entire 9th symphony I always had the feeling of Beethoven trying to surpass even himself, shedding blood over every note.


Oh yes, the passion, the passion, the passion. Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
_________________
Love as thou wilt.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Worm of Despite
Banned

Male
Joined: 26 Oct 2002
Posts: 9546

Thanks: 4
Thanked 25 Times in 22 Posts

Location: Rome, GA
12320 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
2 Foul Duck1 Furls Fire


PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, this thread deserves to be bumped! I miss the good old days of Matrixman and Fist waxing lyrical about the fiery composer. I recently bought Missa Solemnis and am digesting that; currently listening to String Quartet No. 15--perhaps my favorite piece of music by Beethoven.
_________________
"I support the destruction of the Think-Tank." - Avatar, August 2008
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
matrixman
cheek turner


Joined: 10 Jul 2003
Posts: 8361

Thanks: 6
Thanked 28 Times in 27 Posts


8348 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, where is that Fist dude? Smile

Never really sat down and seriously listened to Ludwig's string quartets. Guess it would help if I actually bought them. It's not just Beethoven: my heart just isn't into string quartets in general, for whatever reason. Maybe some day in the future, but not now. It might seem odd, since I love solo violin and solo piano. But music is an irrational, emotional experience, anyway: either it moves you, or it doesn't.

Or is there something more to this? Is it also a matter of aural conditioning? Maybe I'm drawn more to symphonies (and other large scale orchestral works) and at the other end, works for solo instrument, because my ears have been trained through repeated listening to accept them as the most aesthetically pleasing musical forms (in the classical universe). String quartets, on the other hand, remain "closed" to my ears. I haven't yet stumbled across the right work--the right emotional trigger--that will open up the string quartet medium to me. Maybe that trigger will be one of Ludwig's quartets, maybe it will be by some other composer. This kind of "Eureka!" response might be true of any kind of music: one day you're completely uninterested in that artist or that genre, then you come back through a roundabout way and suddenly, like an epiphany, that music speaks to you as clear as day. (My current "rediscovery" of Radiohead is an example of this.) Anyway, it's my long-winded way of excusing myself out of listening to LvB's string quartets. Shifty

LF, it's neat that you're getting something out of the quartets. And you bought the Missa Solemnis! That's a heavy meal to digest for sure. I've only heard it once. I think I need to be in a really, really spiritual mood to appreciate it fully. Anecdote: the late great German conductor Wilhelm Furtwangler (he must be great, look at his name: how many people do you know of who wangles furts?) supposedly never conducted the Missa Solemnis because he said he was unworthy of it. Heh, nice excuse, Wilhelm. C'mon, you were a professional. You let a piece of music intimidate you and your orchestra, the Berlin Philharmonic--arguably the greatest in the world? Wimp! Mr. Green

I jest. Actually, I respect Furtwangler highly, as much for his defiance of the Nazi regime in his time as for his conducting wizardry. If anyone wants to hear a REALLY intense (maybe 'psychotic' is the word) version of Beethoven's 9th Symphony, they should check out Furtwangler's 1954(?) live performance with the Bayreuth Festival Orchestra. You should be warned though: it's in crappy mono, and the mikes are not in the ideal positions to pick up the orchestra (Furtwangler despised the sterility of the recording studio, so most or all of his performances captured for posterity are live events). Still, the hugeness of Furtwangler's interpretation shines through the muddy sound. The 1st Movement snarls with drama, the 2nd features timpani that sounds ferocious even in mono, the 3rd is stretched into a sloooow but passionate epic on its own, and the Ode to Joy finale is...normal--until the closing passages, when Furtwangler speeds up the tempo to Warp 9 or something. Crazy!

I have to mention Movement 3 again, if only because I think it tends to get glossed over. I think Furtwangler delivers here the greatest rendition of this movement by any conductor. It becomes a super slow 20-minute piece of musical philosophy, but it's completely mesmerizing. It's like time has stopped, and you're in a deep, spiritual, eternal place.

And just to exhaust this essay to death: a modern digital recording that came darn close to matching the passionate intensity of Furtwangler in that 3rd Movement was done by Sir Georg Solti and the Chicago Symphony, recorded in the 1980's, I think. (Yes, I'm actually recommending something by Solti. Can we be friends again, Dragonlily? Mr. Green ) Solti also turned the movement into a slow-burn epic, and it came off beautifully.

Okay, Leonard Bernstein also had the spirit of Furtwangler with him in his 1978(?) recording with the Vienna Philharmonic, but I think Solti impressed me more. Yes, I've listened to an unhealthy number of versions of Beethoven's 9th in my time. Rolling Eyes
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger Phoogle Map
Worm of Despite
Banned

Male
Joined: 26 Oct 2002
Posts: 9546

Thanks: 4
Thanked 25 Times in 22 Posts

Location: Rome, GA
12320 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
2 Foul Duck1 Furls Fire


PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matrixman wrote:
Or is there something more to this? Is it also a matter of aural conditioning? Maybe I'm drawn more to symphonies (and other large scale orchestral works) and at the other end, works for solo instrument, because my ears have been trained through repeated listening to accept them as the most aesthetically pleasing musical forms (in the classical universe). String quartets, on the other hand, remain "closed" to my ears. I haven't yet stumbled across the right work--the right emotional trigger--that will open up the string quartet medium to me. Maybe that trigger will be one of Ludwig's quartets, maybe it will be by some other composer. This kind of "Eureka!" response might be true of any kind of music: one day you're completely uninterested in that artist or that genre, then you come back through a roundabout way and suddenly, like an epiphany, that music speaks to you as clear as day. (My current "rediscovery" of Radiohead is an example of this.) Anyway, it's my long-winded way of excusing myself out of listening to LvB's string quartets. Shifty


I'll let Fist handle that one. Wink

Matrixman wrote:
Okay, Leonard Bernstein also had the spirit of Furtwangler with him in his 1978(?) recording with the Vienna Philharmonic, but I think Solti impressed me more. Yes, I've listened to an unhealthy number of versions of Beethoven's 9th in my time. Rolling Eyes


Give Fricsay a try, too! He's my desert island 9th--even after hearing such greats as Karajan and Karl Böhm!
_________________
"I support the destruction of the Think-Tank." - Avatar, August 2008
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Kevin's Watch Forum Index -> Andelain -> Vespers All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 3 of 5

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by Earthpower © Kevin's Watch