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The Illearth War - Chapters 11 & 12
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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2003 5:24 am    Post subject: The Illearth War - Chapters 11 & 12 Reply with quote

The War Council.

Here the great battle for the Land and all that is good, is contemplated and begun.

We are brought to the Close through Hile Troy's 'eyes' and you can sense almost immediately his fear - he believes the Land is real and can't bear the thought of what any mistake in his calculations and tactics will mean to the Warward.

The Manethrall is introduced to the assembly and immediately confronts Covenant:

Quote:
"And I know you, Covenant Ringthane." As she looked at him, the quality of her bitterness changed Markedly. Now it was not weariness and defeat and old Ramen resentment of the Lords for presuming to ride the Ranyhyn, but something else. "You demanded the Ranyhyn at night, when no mortal may demand them at all. Yet they answered - one hundred pround Manes, more than most Ramen have ever seen in one place. They reared to you, in homage to the Ringthane. And you did not ride." Her voice made clear her respect for such an act, ger awe at the honor which the Ranyhyn had done this man. "Covenant Ringthane, do you know me?"

Covenant stared at her intensely, with a look of pain as if his forehead were splitting. Several moments passedbefore he said thickly, "Gay. You're Winhome Gay. You waited on- you were at Manhome."

The Manethrall returned his stare. "Yes. But you have not changed. Forty-one summers have ridden past me since you visited the Plains of Ra and Manhome, and would not eat the food I brought to you. But you are changeless. I was a child then, a Winhome then, barely near my cording - and now I am a tired old woman, far from home, and you are young. Ah Covenant Ringthane, you treated me roughly."


Don't touch me! I can just hear him crushing the spirit of that young child, forty years earlier.

Now Manethrall Rue, she proceeds to tell the tale of her long & arduous journey - a journey she is not altogether sure is worth the cost:
Quote:
"And I have come here - I, who should have never left the Plains of home. I have come here, to the Lords who are said to be the friends of the Ranyhyn, in no other name but grief."


She hears Troy's strategy and grudgingly accepts it. She describes Foul's army as "dire and numberless". She tells of losing the Cords in her care to a "black wind" and "abominable creatures" and finally making her way to Revelstone.

When Troy finally gets his chance to question her, the foremost thing in his mind is timing:
Quote:
"Exactly how many days ago did you see his army leave the Shattered Hills?

The Manethrall did not need to count back. She replied promptly, "Twenty days."


Needless to say, this wasn't exactly in Troy's battle plan and he pretty much falls apart.
[Am I the only one who loses a lot of resect for Troy at this point? I don't think Gen. Schwartzkoff(sp?) or Patton had this sort of reaction (at least publically) to recon. info]

Elena quickly takes control and asks the most important question of the moment "What manner of beings comprise it?"

Rue responds, and we are not too surprised with her answer of:
Quote:
"I have spoken of the wind, and the evil in the air which felled my Cords. In the army, I saw ur-viles, Cavewights, a mighty host of kresh, great lion-like beasts with wings which both ran and flew, and many other ill creatures. They wore shapes lie dogs or horses or men, yet they were not what they seemed. The shone with great wrong. To my hear, they appeared as the people and beasts of the Land made evil by Fangthane."

"That is the work of the Illearth Stone," The High Lord muttered.


And then the most heartwrenching paragraph in the whole of the Chrons (IMHO):
Quote:
"One other thing I saw. I could not be mistaken, for it marched near the forefront, commanding the movements of the horde. It controlled the creatures with a baleful green light, and called itself Fleshharrower. It was a Giant."


Impossible. Rockbother is another name for fealty and faith. Do you Rave?

That, of course is First Mark Morin's response, but didn't we all have the same feeling? How could you do that SRD????

After the initial shock, Quaan snaps out of it & Elena restores order, reminds everyone of the strength and honor of the Ramen and that they were in the Close - no Raver could be disguised here.

Spoiler:
Apparently Lord Foul had immunity against this - didn't he sit as a lord with Kevin & the old Lords?


Elena again shows her strength and leadership and takes control. She releases Rue to rest and nurishment. Covenant (ever the glutton for punishment) follows Rue out and finds yet another "guilt trip" and a request to rectify a situation he created in the Land when she tells him the Ranyhyn sill still serve him - untill he releases them. Elena makes sure the people in the South & Center Plains will be warned, and that the defense of Revelstone is assigned to Trevor & Loerya. Troy finally regains his composure and begins to re-assess his battle plan. He will send some by raft down the Mithil to reinforce the small group of Ranyhyn bourne who will make the first encounter with Fleshharrower & Foul's army.

I have always marveled at the bravery & dedication portrayed by the Bloodguard & Quaan accepting orders that they know will undoubtedly mean sure death.

The chapter ends with our favorite pessimist addressing Troy:
Quote:
"Ah, Troy," he sighed wearily. "All this responsibility is going to make another Kevin Landwaster out of you." Instead of meeting Troy's taut stare, he turned away and wandered out of the Close as if he hardly knew or cared where he was going.

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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2003 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forth to War.

The preparations for the seemingly impossible task of moving the entire Warward to intercept Foul's army & make it to Doom's Retreat begin in earnest. 120 rafts will be constructed in 2 days. The remaining Warward ready themselves to march 300 leagues in 28 days (1 league = 12 miles?). Our man Troy is beginning to get back some of his old confidence, untill he speaks to Covenant again:
Quote:
"The fact is that you're starting to find out just how terrible all this responsibility is. Let me know when you start to feel like a failure. We'll commiserate together."
Sometimes Covenant is pathetic. Then he gets "blind-sided" by Torhm, who offers him the orcrest. When Covenant takes it, Torhm breaks out another gem - one of those "Land-isms" that just makes you smile when you read it:
Quote:
"Courtesy is like a drink at a mountain stream. Ur-lord, it is in my heart that behind the thunder of your brow you are a strangely courteous man.


The short chapter ends with more of SRD's beautiful imagery(sp?). Elena's stirring display of power and eloquence is inspiring. Even in a call to war (The Dedication in Time of War), the Oath of Peace is shown to be a vital and prominent element in the fabric of the Lords and the people of the Land.

:earthy
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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2003 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Earthblood wrote:
[Am I the only one who loses a lot of resect for Troy at this point? I don't think Gen. Schwartzkoff(sp?) or Patton had this sort of reaction (at least publically) to recon. info]
I wouldn't be too hard on him. He's not a warrior. He's never been in an actual battle, after all. When a simulation goes bad, you just contemplate it, and say, "Ah, I see what I did wrong. I'll have to remember that next time." But now, for the first time, many thousands of lives are at stake, and he's already losing before he's made his first move. The only way to learn to deal with such things are to experience them. If he was a soldier, he'd have seen battle and blood and death, and it wouldn't be such a shock to him now. But he hasn't experienced them, he's only in charge because of his potential.

Earthblood wrote:
And then the most heartwrenching paragraph in the whole of the Chrons (IMHO):
Quote:
"One other thing I saw. I could not be mistaken, for it marched near the forefront, commanding the movements of the horde. It controlled the creatures with a baleful green light, and called itself Fleshharrower. It was a Giant."
Spoiler:
Of all Corruption's evil deeds, nothing matches the murder of the Giants, and forcing three of them to serve him so visibly, letting the world see the Giants' defeat and shame. The First Mark's reaction is entirely logical - it is much more likely that Gay is possessed than a Giant is serving Corruption.

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Last edited by Fist and Faith on Thu May 22, 2003 9:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2003 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is not the corruption of giants, those Rockbrothers born of fealty and faith, not symbolic of the darkness within us all. In the end is there not something so dark that we must fall before it, whether it be physical or psychological. Remember Honniscrave's anger after the death of Cable Seadreamer.
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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2003 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or Salty wanting 2 kill in LFB...Damm guys SPOILER warnings please! Spoiler:
(We don't kno the Giants r dead @ this point!).

Excellent job Earthy!!!
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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2003 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, Earthy, you did a fine job! Very Happy
As for Troy, I would agree with Fist that is a sheer lack of experience that leaves him flustered. An experienced person would know that in reality, things go wrong, not according to plans, no matter how carefully laid out. Troy doesn't seem to know this...
I've always wondered about his life in our world. Was he sheltered from life's ruder shocks? He is obviously intelligent and must show a great amount of potential for the Lords to make him War Mark, but he always seems to be so lacking in true experience...
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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2003 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry danlo. I just sorta took it for granted that people who read Dissecting have already read the stuff, and are now looking for in depth discussion. But I'll be good now!Smile

About Troy, maybe he would never have been made Warmark, despite his superior strategies, if everyone hadn't sworn the Oath of Peace. They think that their way is the best way. On the whole, I agree. But maybe they make the mistake of thinking that their way is best for all tasks, and that, therefore, an untried strategist is a good choice for a leader of warriors. But it probably takes a warrior to lead warriors. The Haruchai might be dumbfounded by the choice of Troy.

And yes, nice job Earthblood! There's a lot of misery in these chapters, and it needed pointing out for us.
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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2003 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well done, Earthblood. I was absolutely shattered when I read about Fleshharrower - what hope is there if Foul can corrupt a Rockbrother.

I agree that these chapters are filled with a lot of misery. Hile Troy's reaction is a little predictable, and I felt for him - he believed in the Land and all his strategies were geared to help defeat an evil that threatened to destroy that which he had come to love. I doubt he would ever have encountered anything so evil as the Despiser - he was a little inexperience and unprepared.

Elena's leadership in these chapters was so inspirational - I admired her strength and conviction - and it left me with a feeling of hope. Smile
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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2003 1:38 pm    Post subject: Re: The Illearth War - Chapters 11 & 12 Reply with quote

Earthblood wrote:
We are brought to the Close through Hile Troy's 'eyes' and you can sense almost immediately his fear - he believes the Land is real and can't bear the thought of what any mistake in his calculations and tactics will mean to the Warward.


His first and basic error.

Earthblood wrote:

Now Manethrall Rue, she proceeds to tell the tale of her long & arduous journey - a journey she is not altogether sure is worth the cost:


The ramen might be good hunters but you might expect people who live on the edge of landsdrop to be a little more aware of what Foul can do.

Earthblood wrote:

Needless to say, this wasn't exactly in Troy's battle plan and he pretty much falls apart.
[Am I the only one who loses a lot of resect for Troy at this point? I don't think Gen. Schwartzkoff(sp?) or Patton had this sort of reaction (at least publically) to recon. info]


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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2003 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Earthblood wrote:
Quote:
"Courtesy is like a drink at a mountain stream. Ur-lord, it is in my heart that behind the thunder of your brow you are a strangely courteous man.


I love that quote! Cool Torhm is one of my favorite characters.
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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2003 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My favourite quote for sure:

"The fact is that you're starting to find out just how terrible all this responsibility is. Let me know when you start to feel like a failure. We'll commiserate together."

I suppose much can be said about poor old Hile Troy but I get the impression that if it wasn't for him, the poor old Lords wouldn't have prepared anything quite as substantial - they would have relied on the Giants as in the past. That's where Lord Foul would have had them beat.

I gather we will know more of Troy's possible folly as the chapters roll on. I'm still picturing the sight of Elena speaking to 20 odd thousand men, Staff of Law spewing fire into the sky, ranyhyn rearing - and wondering where's the celluloid version Smile
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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2003 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

COME ON, people! Give poor old Hile Troy a break! Smile

Seriously, how would YOU react when receiving the horrible news he did? He is only human, and personally: I would prefer serving under a general who actually cares about his troops (like HT), instead of a cold-hearted military machine who sacrifices soldiers without even thinking about it. If HT instead of losing control of himself for a moment, had just said: "Hmm. Five days lost. That means we might lose the war, and hundreds of thousands of people will be killed. Oh well. Anyone care for some springwine?" Now THAT would have been concerning.

Anyone else thinks it`s a bit unnecessary to leave three Lords to guard Revelstone and Revelwood? (Amatin, Trevor and Loerya). During the Quest for the Staff of Law, Osondrea alone took care of Revelstone. Can`t help but to think that at least Loerya would have been much more useful at the front.
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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2003 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That IS a great quote, Damelon.

Fist & Faith, as far as Troy's inexperience and being put in charge of the army, maybe he was just a good salesman! Maybe he "sold" himself to the Lords to become the Warmark!

Anyway, great analogy, Earthy!
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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2003 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, in a way Elena was a saleswoman..she recognized the potential in Hile Troy when he came to the Land, and "sold" the idea of leading the Warmark to him. He didn`t have any such ideas before she gave them to him, if my memory serves me right.

So, in a way, Elena was responsible for him becoming Warmark (that`s what his title was, right?). And Elena was the result of Covenant raping Lena, and Covenant`s bargain with the Ranyhyn as well as the mental damage caused by Covenant on Atiaran, Lena, Triock and Trell had affected her greatly.

I sense Foul play...
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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2003 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe I'm hammering on ole HT a little harshly, but my point was that a leader must be able to show strength and not let his troops see his weaknesses...

Dag, do you really think Foul could have known the future results of Covenant's appearance and actions in the Land? I don't even think the creator could have known all possible futures that might have come to be. Didn't he say in one of his "talks" with TC that he could only chose a person he thought would have the right character in the end and hope that the person would make the "right" choices & help defeat Foul, by their own free will?

Perhaps Foul could have had some influence on these characters during their lives causing them to make choices that would benefit him....
I do see your point though Dag - maybe Foul's hand was touching these folks, based on some of their actions.
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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2003 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Foul probably couldn`t control Covenant directly (and noone else either), but he was an expert at subtle manipulations.

The Creator may have chosen TC, but when TC came to the Land the first thinks he met was Drool and LF..must have been a shock for him, a rather traumatic experience. And then he had to climb down from Kevin`s Watch (keep in mind that it was LF who brought him to that place, perhaps he knew about TC`s terrible fear of heights). Perhaps LF was trying to set TC off balance so that he would do something evil. LF couldn`t know what TC would do, but he could exploit the results of TC`s actions.
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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2003 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well put!
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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2003 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not consider myself to have a fear of heights, but I do think that climbing down from Kevins Watch would have tested this assumption.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Covenant's finest moment so far in TIW:

Quote:
The noise aggravated swiftly in the clear acoustics of the Close, exacerbated itself, forced each voice to become rawer and wilder. There was panic in the din. If the Giants could be made to serve Despite, then nothing was safe, sure; betrayal lurked everywhere. Even the Bloodguard had an aspect of dismay in their flat faces.

Yet under the protesting and the abuse, Manethrall Rue stood firmly, holding up her head with a blaze of pride and fury in her eyes.

The next moment, Covenant reached her side. Shaking his fists at the assembly, he howled, "Hellfire! Can't you see that she's telling the truth?"


The Unbeliever has some belief in him, after all.
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree about the finest moment. But it seems to be a matter of showing compassion than belief.

Remember, Covenant literally sees she is telling the truth. Health-sense.

The War Council is collapsing in shock, they are appalled by what has happened. Covenant isn't in tune to that. He doesn't understand why they don't also literally see she is telling the truth. But the Council is floundering, grasping at straws, looking for a way to disbelieve the Ramen, because the truth is too difficult to bear. They are avoiding the truth. And so they utter preposterous allegations against the Manethrall. Deflecting.

Hence Elena: "I am ashamed!"

It's a moment that humanizes the leaders of the Land.
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