TIW Chapter 13, The Rock Gardens of the Maerl!

fightingmyinstincts

Now then. I'll do this chapter alone for a reason I'll get to in a minute.

This chapter is from Troy's view but not all that closely, if that makes any sense. What I mean to say is, we're not as far in his mind as we generally are into TC's. The first thing of any importance that happens is we notice Trell, riding towards the back, but not hiding. This disturbs HT a lil bit, and his calls Elena's and TC's attention to the rhadhamaerl's presence. TC groans and goes to talk to him. We are told by Elena that TC has reassured Trell that he does not intend to hurt the High Lord. HT has no clue what connection there could possible be b/t Trell and Elena...what struck me on this page was that, once TC had ridden over to Trell, they glare at one another for a few seconds....TC, leper, rapist, all that, has the nerve to glare at Trell! This is unexpected from someone who genuinely seems to dislike himself sometimes....yeah anyway.
Trell is obviously distressed:

danlo · Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2003 8:11 pm Post subject:

Gilden-fire starts where the chapter, Korik's Mission ends--chronologically u may b right the main part and the start of their journey to the Sarangrave may be happening right now...beautiful job FMI...can't wait 4 ur next installment! Very Happy

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Dromond · Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2003 12:55 am Post subject:

This chapter has always confused me as to what SRD is hinting at or whatever. After TC tells his story of the leprous lady and her indomnitable spirit, TC says he'd wring her husband's neck.That I understand--but Mhoram then says

Earthfriend · Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2003 3:23 am Post subject:

Thanks for the tops review FMI! Wink

And i'm just as lost as you and Dromond - this chapter is certainly filled with the paradox of white gold!

With your points in mind, i'll re-read it again tonight and see if anything springs out at me Shocked

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Stone and Sea are deep in life,
two unalterable symbols of the world;
permanence at rest, and permanence in motion;
participants in the Power that remains.

Damelon · Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2003 3:33 am Post subject:

The story puzzled me for a long time. I think the best reading of it is if it is read as a fortelling of the face being the Land under Foul's winter, and the husband as Foul; then it's definitely foretelling TC's future course of action.
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Dag son of Dag · Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2003 11:11 am Post subject:

That indomnitable spirit of the leprous lady reminds me of Mhoram..he certainly doesn`t give up easily. But there are other things that doesnt match.

Anyway, maybe it points to Elena abandoning Mhoram, Troy and the Warward to go on a quest of her own.

Or maybe it just shows how poorly Covenant communicates with the people of the Land: he tells a story without meaning anything particular with it, and everyone starts interpreting and searching for hidden meanings.

Doesn`t it remind you of how TC was abandoned by Joan, the way the leprous lady was abandoned by her husband? Maybe that`s partly the reason for why TC was so upset about it.
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Earthfriend · Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2003 4:37 pm Post subject:

Mhoram very specifically says that Covenant is not foretelling the fate of the Land. As to what he is foretelling...

I can't help thinking that it's somehow tied in with Elena. there's the rock-garden face, horribly disfigured and grotesque, and yet still smiling out at the world, oblivious to it's own condition. And here's Elena, so full of love for the Land and Covenant, guided by her unfocused gaze, that she's oblivious to the probabilty of destruction under her nose....

I don't know Confused

I'm probably way off...! Very Happy

Maybe, Covenant is just foretelling the future end of the giants of Seareach?

As to Covenant's story about the woman he met in the leper clinic, i think he wanted to remind the Lords - who have never known such a terrible disease as leprosy -that there is always more than one way to look at things...Also, the face obviously struck a nerve with him.
_________________
Stone and Sea are deep in life,
two unalterable symbols of the world;
permanence at rest, and permanence in motion;
participants in the Power that remains.

duchess of malfi · Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2003 5:12 am Post subject:

To me the wife in the story represents the Land -- for no matter how diseased she gets, no matter how disfigured, there is still great beauty in her. The husband stands for Lord Foul, for the someone who could do a great good for his wife but makes other choices. In saying that he would wring the husband's neck, TC is indicating that he will someday do what is necessary to protect the Land. Rather than indicating the fate of the Land, he is indicating his own fate.
Or so I have always interpreted this passage.
I will freely admit I might be completely off, though.
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Earthfriend · Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2003 7:31 am Post subject:

No, i don't think you are off, duchess Very Happy

, that's one of the best interpretations ive read so far Very Happy

_________________
Stone and Sea are deep in life,
two unalterable symbols of the world;
permanence at rest, and permanence in motion;
participants in the Power that remains.

FMI · Guest 0 White Gold Dollars User Items:

You make an interesting point about LF, duchess...he does have power to do great good for the land! I never thought of that....he could do such cool stuff with his power...or is his power inherently corrupt? If he wanted to do good, could he?

Dag son of Dag · Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2003 1:58 pm Post subject:

Maybe LF is fundamentally evil, like the Illearth Stone.. I don`t think it`s possible to use the Illearth Stone for something good because of things that are said later in the book (I can`t use that spoiler thingy, so I won`t get into those now Smile

).
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Ad majorem Dei gloriam

danlo · Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2003 12:27 am Post subject:

FMI I hate 2 b a pushy mod, but r u ever going 2 do chapter 14? Confused

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Would you knock off all the whining Kevin? You're DEAD, for Creator's sake...

stonedowner A · Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 12:52 am Post subject:

My interpretation is that Covenant, ever the pessimist, was indeed foretelling the fate of the Land. As the Unfettered One told Covenant at Glimmermere, Covenant dreams the truth.

The story that Covenant tells is one about a woman with leprosy who is always the optimistic and incredibly giving, but to the cost of her own life. The woman does not follow VSE or the techniques that Covenant does in order to gain strict control over his life and leprosy. She wanted to make others happy and not give up dancing even as it cost her health. Whenever she goes out for more dancing, she is implicitly trusting fate that she will hopefully be okay even though all of her doctors have warned her against these activities.

In the Land, Covenant still clings to his Unbelief, and his pessimism that Foul has all the tools necessary to win the war with ease. If Foul could defeath Kevin Landwaster, how could the new Lords hope to defeat him even they hadn't come close to mastering much of Kevin's Lore, and hadn't invented any new lore except mind melding. (and that's not going to do much against Foul.) Therefore, the symbolism between Covenant's story and the current state of the Land is that the woman is the Land, and the disease of leprosy is Despite and Foul. The people of the Land always believe that they are going out and doing something correct, but Covenant always argues that they are just doing exactly what Foul wants. They go out dancing thinking that is something good, but when they come back, they are becoming more and more diseased. Covenant is arguing that Foul turns your best intentions against you, slowly whittling you away until you become someone like Kevin.

My interpretation of the husband is that he is Covenant. The husband divorced his wife because she could not have children. If he had stayed with her, perhaps she could have followed the correct treatment and survived. TC does not believe the Land is real and wishes to abandon it. Perhaps TC does not realize it, but when he says that he wants to strangle the husband, perhaps he is saying he wants to strangle himself for his inability and cowardliness in saving the Land.

At least, that is my interpretation of the story. Mhoram denied that this was a prophecy, but his no had little conviction to it.

dlbpharmd · Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 1:22 am Post subject:

Yay! Someone's posting in DTL forum again!

shadowbinding shoe · Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:01 am Post subject:

The Rock Garden was a strong story. So what does it mean? I like Stonedowner's interpretation. But if Mhoram is right and this prophecy is not about the land, I'd say it isn't about Elena either. She doesn't fit it too well. The one that does fit it is her mother, Lena. She gets raped (the leprosy) and instead of fighting it she goes on trying to dance her way through life telling herself Covenant loves her and she's his queen. The husband could be Thomas himself or Triok Spoiler:

who leaves her in the hands of her raper in order to do other things (in TPTP)

or the lords themselves.

I think Lena is the better interpretation than the Land. After all what more can they do for their beloved Land? Thomas rebukes the Lords with this story because in the case of Lena, instead of following justice in this matter by punishing Thomas Covenant or trying to heal Lena by helping her deal with the truth or even denouncing Thomas for his misdeed and handling their problems without his help they hash it all up, let Lena and her family handle their problems by themselves while they try to reap any possible benefit from Thomas (within the limitations of their already compromised ethics) and hailing him as their hero.