The Illearth War: Ch 23

Infelice · Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 8:40 am Post subject: The Illearth War: Ch 23

Chapter 23: Knowledge

The knowledge contained in the Seventh Ward of High Lord Kevin is like the holy grail to Elena, and what better safety deposit box for that precious knowledge than the enigmatic Amok. A good deal of this chapter details Elena's struggle to extract this knowledge from Amok. However she learns that knowledge can take many forms and can be understood by the most unassuming of people.

The chapter starts out with the emotional aftermath of the rockslide that claimed the life of the ranyhyn Myrha. Covenant is left reeling after witnessing a brief glimpse of Elena's apocalyptic nature and he begins to realize that through her he has access to a new way of extricating himself from any responsibility for saving The Land.

Fist and Faith · Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 11:13 am Post subject:

danlo · Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 1:56 pm Post subject:

Wow! Wow! Now we're rumbling 2wards the awesome conclusion! Shocked

The Bloodguard rock! Wow Infelice! What a job! Shocked

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True heroics must be carefully planned---and seriously avoided-Vlad Taltos

Dromond · Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 8:02 pm Post subject:

Wonderful summation, Infelice! Outstanding!! Very Happy

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Infelice · Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 9:39 pm Post subject:

Thank you gentlemen. Coming from you guys I consider that high praise indeed. Smile

This chapter was a really hard one for me to read... there was so much that wasn't being said.

Firstly there's Amok......well he won't say anything unless you knew the right things to say to him. I found his constant amibiguity soooo frustrating, I could actually FEEL my blood pressure rising every time he spoke!!!

Then there's the Bloodguard.....Is it just me or did it seem that they were kind of on Amok's side. Bannor claimed that he did not know Amok, but I'm pretty sure that the Bloodguard knew that he had something to do with the Power of Command. I sort of got the impression the maybe they were hoping that by keeping that information to themselves, Elena would fail to discover the name of the Seventh Ward and, considering her apocalyptic tendencies, perform another Ritual Of Desecration.......and thus ending the Bloodguard's Vow. Do you think that perhaps they were looking for a way out of their Vow?
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Pon pon ponponponpon!!

Kinslaughterer · Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2003 4:19 am Post subject:

The Bloodguard need the Vow just as Covenant needs Unbelief. Just as Covenant thought the marrowmeld sculpture was Bannor or another Bloodguard. Then again I suppose he would like to believe just as they would like a nap once in a while. They viewed the Power of Command as a weapon, and the Bloodguard of course do not trust weapons. It's my guess that Bannor and Morin actually hated Amok because he was a symbol of Kevin and his power. They couldn't protect Kevin and fufill their Vow so they felt betrayed. I would think that the Bloodguard's failure to protect or stop Kevin would have been enough to break the Vow.

Amok was programmed not release his information unless the conditions were right while the Bloodguard simply wanted it to be concealed forever. Clearly they were worried about Elena's obsessive fixation with Old Kevin and hoped they could avoid it completely.

I actually enjoyed Amok's riddles. I also thought the Lords could ask the Bloodguard other questions about Kevin's Wards. Oh and what would have happened if Covenant had used the Power of Command to restore the Law of Death after Kevin reappeared to fight Elena? Leper Outcast Unclean!
_________________
"We do not follow maps to buried treasure, and remember:X never, ever, marks the spot."
- Professor Henry Jones Jr.

"Hither came Conan, the Cimmerian, black-haired, sullen-eyed, sword in hand, a thief, a reaver, a slayer, with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet."

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Earthfriend · Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2003 10:04 am Post subject:

Masterful job, Infelice! Very Happy

And that's an amazing idea - the Bloodguard subconciously seeking a release from thier vow...i'm going to have to mull that one over. Confused

After hundreds of years of service, maybe their wish for rest (ie death) did influence their thinking, but they'd be the last to admit it! Wink

_________________
Stone and Sea are deep in life,
two unalterable symbols of the world;
permanence at rest, and permanence in motion;
participants in the Power that remains.

Infelice · Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2003 2:01 pm Post subject:

Kinslaughterer · Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2003 2:09 pm Post subject:

Those Bloodguard got away with too much. The Lords would get upset and ask "you've known all along?" and they would reply in monotone "You did not ask". I suppose they were sort of like Amok.

Maybe they were jealous of Amok. He had effectively an undying Vow but he had all the freedom to roam.
_________________
"We do not follow maps to buried treasure, and remember:X never, ever, marks the spot."
- Professor Henry Jones Jr.

"Hither came Conan, the Cimmerian, black-haired, sullen-eyed, sword in hand, a thief, a reaver, a slayer, with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet."

http://crowcanyon.org/
support your local archaeologist!

JD · Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 6:16 pm Post subject:

Great job Infelice! I think the Lords overlooked the knowledge of the Bloodguard, many of the 500 at Revelstone were with Kevin when he ordered them away for the desecration. Maybe over the years many of the Lords just got so used to them being their protectors they took them for granted.

UrVilesilencer · Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 8:45 pm Post subject:

It also seemed like the Lords considered asking the Bloodguard questions about the other Wards to be rude or some kind of insult to their fidelity. Otherwise, it would seem like a logical question to ask them since there were probably Bloodguard with Kevin while he was hiding the different Wards all over the Land.

I'm sure that the Lords respected the wisdom of learning from mastering each of the Wards as intended. But with the knowledge of LF's posession of the Illearch Stone and his impending war on Revelstone, I would think that Elena might have considered asking the Bloodguard what they knew about other Wards if such a question wasn't just plain insulting.
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"A sin without volition is a slap at morality and an insolent contradiction in terms: that which is outside the possibility of choice is outside the province of morality."

caamora · Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2003 1:05 am Post subject:

Great post, Infelice! I knew you would do a great job! Indeed, I got goosebumps reading it, just remembering ..."Power of Command." and then Amok laughing.
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An old Cherokee is teaching his grandson about life. “A fight is going on inside me,” he said to the boy. “It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves. One is evil – he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority and ego.

The other is good - he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion and faith.

The same fight is going on inside you – and inside every other person, too.”

The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, “Which wolf will win?”

The old Cherokee simply replied, “The one you feed.”

Fist and Faith · Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2003 1:39 am Post subject:

Kinslaughterer · Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2003 2:10 am Post subject:

You are right FnF. I suppose I lose the feeling of humanity in the Bloodguard and treat them more like automatons than people. Truly there Vow was to defend the Lords and they viewed the Wards as weapons which they don't trust. Then again they have made a Covenantesque bargain where they give up responsibility for the land's direct defense by protecting the lords and allowing them to do the saving. However they came to realize this point by obeying Kevin during the Desecration and now they sort of relent, again Covenantesque.

Amok didn't have a Vow but he had certain parameters he had to follow upon his creation. He couldn't just tell them where earthroot was nor could all five hundred bloodguard march without orders to Foul's Creche although they would have certainly liked to have done that.
_________________
"We do not follow maps to buried treasure, and remember:X never, ever, marks the spot."
- Professor Henry Jones Jr.

"Hither came Conan, the Cimmerian, black-haired, sullen-eyed, sword in hand, a thief, a reaver, a slayer, with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet."

http://crowcanyon.org/
support your local archaeologist!

Fist and Faith · Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2003 2:18 am Post subject:

"Covenantesque" is a very cool word!! Smile

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We are not required to save the world. We are required to stand up as truly as we can for what we love. -SRD

Mi alasharia la shantih, Darling Silezia.
Isaiah ShadowLurker, mi alasharia la shantih, shantih.

Kinslaughterer · Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2003 2:21 am Post subject:

I suppose I had better patent that now then. Everytime some uses it now there should be one of those little "r" in the upper right hand corner. Maybe I could get some white gold royalties?
_________________
"We do not follow maps to buried treasure, and remember:X never, ever, marks the spot."
- Professor Henry Jones Jr.

"Hither came Conan, the Cimmerian, black-haired, sullen-eyed, sword in hand, a thief, a reaver, a slayer, with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet."

http://crowcanyon.org/
support your local archaeologist!

Durris · Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 7:49 pm Post subject:

Grimmand Honninscrave · Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:32 am Post subject:

The way I see it is the Bloodguard didn't break their vow until after Covenant forced the "Power of Command " out of Bannor. Elena was killed, the law of death broken, and Foul was still alive. They felt invaided and broke their vow of service. I don't think they wanted to find a way out of their vow. It was what they lived for. Parden the pun. Laughing

tonyz · Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 3:25 am Post subject:

Regarding the Bloodguard and the other Wards:

I'm sure someone asked. I'm equally sure that the Bloodguard gave them the same answer they did Covenant: we respect Kevin's intention that his power should not fall into unready hands. (And I'm very sure that the Lords respected that from the beginning, too. They're that sort of people.)
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Choiceless, you were given the power of choice. I elected you for the Land but did not compel you to serve my purpose in the Land... Only thus could I preserve the integrity of my creation.

TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd · Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:17 pm Post subject: