Kevin's Watch Forum Index
 HomeHome   MemberlistMemberlist   RegisterRegister   SearchSearch   ProfileProfile   FAQFAQ   StatisticsStatistics  SudokuSudoku   Phoogle MapPhoogle Map 
 AlbumAlbum StoresStores   StoresItems Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The Illearth War - Chap 25 - The Seventh Ward
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Kevin's Watch Forum Index -> Group Readings -> 1st Chronicles
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Savor Dam
Will Be Herd!

MaleRanyhyn
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 5140

Thanks: 55
Thanked 81 Times in 77 Posts

Location: Pacific NorthWet
1248 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 2009 Watchies1 Furls Fire1 Love


PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cord Hurn wrote:
From now on, EarthBlood will no longer be a main ingredient in my Bloody Mary mix! Cheers (Unintended consequences, indeed!) Wink

I suspect the Power granted by this libation will not be that of Command...
Twisted Evil
_________________
Love prevails.
~ Tracie Mckinney-Hammon

Have patience with everything unresolved in your heart and to try to love the questions themselves as if they were locked rooms or books written in a very foreign language. Don't search for the answers, which could not be given to you now, because you would not be able to live them. And the point is, to live everything. Live the questions now. Perhaps then, someday far in the future, you will gradually, without even noticing it, live your way into the answer.
~ Rainier Maria Rilke
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
wayfriend
whilom witling

Male
Joined: 21 Apr 2004
Posts: 18857

Thanks: 11
Thanked 216 Times in 199 Posts

Location: The world of the Bowling Green Massacre
43176 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
3 Member of Linden's Army


PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fist and Faith wrote:
Elena, dumber than a bag or hammers, warned by many, fully aware that those with much greater experience with power and plenty of time to think of a good use for the Power of Command didn't use it, thought resurrection would be a good idea.

I cannot be as hard on Elena as all that. She had a theory, after all.
In The Illearth War was wrote:
"Thomas Covenant, I believe that there is immeasurable strength in the consummation of despair, strength beyond all conceiving by an unholocausted soul. I believe that if High Lord Kevin could speak from beyond the grave, he would utter a word which would unmarrow the very bones of Lord Foul's Despite."

Her theory was based on the premise that unrestrained passion was the key to illimitable power. I think it was a solid theory. Just a misguided execution.
Spoiler:
It took Mhoram another 7 years to figure out this same "knowledge of power" that Elena had discovered.


Last edited by wayfriend on Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Fist and Faith
Magister Vitae


Joined: 01 Dec 2002
Posts: 18134

Thanks: 98
Thanked 90 Times in 86 Posts


9051 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Foul Duck1 Lord Mhoram's Victory1 2011 Watchies


PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll never see her as more than an idiot. Too many - no less than Mhoram, the White Gold Wielder, and the living embodiment of the 7th Ward - warned and begged her. Kevin's soul was fairly holocausted when he decided to enact the Ritual of Desecration, and it's difficult to imagine what word he could utter that could be more powerful than that. He failed the Kobayashi Maru, and she thought he was more powerful as a result.
_________________
We are not required to save the world. We are required to stand up as truly as we can for what we love. -SRD
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger Phoogle Map
Thanked by: Cord Hurn
Cord Hurn
Servant Of The Band

MaleRanyhyn
Joined: 28 Oct 2013
Posts: 4862

Thanks: 970
Thanked 43 Times in 40 Posts

Location: Tucson, Arizona, USA
4217 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Plains of Ra1 Furls Fire1 Andelain


PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fist and Faith wrote:
I'll never see her as more than an idiot. Too many - no less than Mhoram, the White Gold Wielder, and the living embodiment of the 7th Ward - warned and begged her. Kevin's soul was fairly holocausted when he decided to enact the Ritual of Desecration, and it's difficult to imagine what word he could utter that could be more powerful than that. He failed the Kobayashi Maru, and she thought he was more powerful as a result.


While I think Elena is a terrific character creation by SRD, a vividly memorable personality, I basically endorse Fist's view of her. She was indeed warned repeatedly, and she foolishly ignored the warnings. Her thinking Kevin could save the Land was crazy. Crazy
_________________
Jehannum
The Celebration of Spring

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
wayfriend
whilom witling

Male
Joined: 21 Apr 2004
Posts: 18857

Thanks: 11
Thanked 216 Times in 199 Posts

Location: The world of the Bowling Green Massacre
43176 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
3 Member of Linden's Army


PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

... but it's an understandable mistake. She thought she found "the answer". In her excitement, she was so eager to try out her obviously awesome idea that she either forgot, or considered unimportant, those warnings. It's like a person so eager to try out their new sportscar that they leave their wallet home and forget to lock the front door. I wouldn't be the first one to throw a stone in this house - I've made similar (if far less consequential) errors in analogous circumstances.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
JIkj fjds j
j sfoO fp

Male
Joined: 22 Dec 2014
Posts: 1058

Thanks: 6
Thanked 17 Times in 16 Posts

Location: 24i v o ot
2875 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Elena was filled with too much hatred for Lord Foul. This unfortunately consumed her focus and impaired her vision.
Still, she was an extremely passionate defender of the Land no matter how unhinged she'd become. And with a deep love for truth and beauty at the very center of her core, her actions needed to be respected. She was the High Lord, by choice of the Council.

We might ask ourselves where her Hate actually springs from.
I find it interesting when Covenant challenges her reasons for summoning him to the Land, Elena says:
Quote:
Dukkha Waynhim gave up new knowledge of Fangthane's power.

What this new knowledge is I do not know.
That's not to say there was always some piece of information held back by the Council - (and SRD for reasons of story and plot).

It's also interesting how Covenant sees the Seventh Ward:
Quote:
It confronted him like a porous membrane in the foundation of time and space.

(An SRD turn of phrase for memory in the brain perhaps? A memory of the past or in the future?).

I like to think that the Seventh Ward was not actually the Blood of the Earth per se, but really just another test of truth - for those without desire for Power and Command.
Elena had the Staff of Law, there was never any need for anything else.


Last edited by JIkj fjds j on Sat Jun 18, 2016 4:59 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dlbpharmd
Lord

MaleRanyhyn
Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 14284

Thanks: 5
Thanked 51 Times in 50 Posts

Location: Jacksboro, TN.
14861 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH1 2007 Watcher of the Year1 2007 Watchies


PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cord Hurn wrote:
Morin's not drinking the EarthBlood to Command Kevin means that he fails to protect Elena and the Staff of Law, and this also has far-reaching, unforeseen consequences. Kevin must have sensed the potential for EarthBlood to be used for good, even if he didn't avail himself of it, or otherwise he wouldn't have created Amok at all.

How about this idea, wayfriend: the EarthBlood is drank to command the Earth to swallow and crush Fleshharrower's army completely. What could possibly go wrong? The Earth gets massive indigestion from swallowing so much evil that Covenant is compelled to bring it a oversized Tums antacid tablet from beyond the Arch of Time, to be slipped into it via Rivenrock? Wink

(Seriously, wayfriend, it's fun discussing this book with somebody, so thanks for your participation! I've enjoyed my latest re-read of TIW, and the revival of these TIW dissection threads was long overdue! We can agree on that much, can't we?? Mr. Green )


By that point, Kevin was consumed by the power of the Illearth Stone. While it's not entirely clear just how powerful the Stone is, it does seem to rank high on the list. I'm not certain any command by Morin would have been effective against Kevin at that point.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger Phoogle Map
dlbpharmd
Lord

MaleRanyhyn
Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 14284

Thanks: 5
Thanked 51 Times in 50 Posts

Location: Jacksboro, TN.
14861 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH1 2007 Watcher of the Year1 2007 Watchies


PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayfriend wrote:
... but it's an understandable mistake. She thought she found "the answer". In her excitement, she was so eager to try out her obviously awesome idea that she either forgot, or considered unimportant, those warnings. It's like a person so eager to try out their new sportscar that they leave their wallet home and forget to lock the front door. I wouldn't be the first one to throw a stone in this house - I've made similar (if far less consequential) errors in analogous circumstances.


Spoiler:
I would remind everyone that in the Last Chronicles, Linden is warned repeatedly by various powerful beings, but she also made her own choices, based on her passions and intuition. It worked out well for her, not so much for Elena.

_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger Phoogle Map
Cord Hurn
Servant Of The Band

MaleRanyhyn
Joined: 28 Oct 2013
Posts: 4862

Thanks: 970
Thanked 43 Times in 40 Posts

Location: Tucson, Arizona, USA
4217 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Plains of Ra1 Furls Fire1 Andelain


PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dlbpharmd wrote:
Cord Hurn wrote:
Morin's not drinking the EarthBlood to Command Kevin means that he fails to protect Elena and the Staff of Law, and this also has far-reaching, unforeseen consequences. Kevin must have sensed the potential for EarthBlood to be used for good, even if he didn't avail himself of it, or otherwise he wouldn't have created Amok at all.

How about this idea, wayfriend: the EarthBlood is drank to command the Earth to swallow and crush Fleshharrower's army completely. What could possibly go wrong? The Earth gets massive indigestion from swallowing so much evil that Covenant is compelled to bring it a oversized Tums antacid tablet from beyond the Arch of Time, to be slipped into it via Rivenrock? Wink

(Seriously, wayfriend, it's fun discussing this book with somebody, so thanks for your participation! I've enjoyed my latest re-read of TIW, and the revival of these TIW dissection threads was long overdue! We can agree on that much, can't we?? Mr. Green )


By that point, Kevin was consumed by the power of the Illearth Stone. While it's not entirely clear just how powerful the Stone is, it does seem to rank high on the list. I'm not certain any command by Morin would have been effective against Kevin at that point.



I believe that Amok stated that only the white gold and Lord Foul cannot be Commanded.
_________________
Jehannum
The Celebration of Spring

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
dlbpharmd
Lord

MaleRanyhyn
Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 14284

Thanks: 5
Thanked 51 Times in 50 Posts

Location: Jacksboro, TN.
14861 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH1 2007 Watcher of the Year1 2007 Watchies


PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're quite correct, Amok does state that. Hmmmm. Food for thought.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger Phoogle Map
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Kevin's Watch Forum Index -> Group Readings -> 1st Chronicles All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Page 5 of 5

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by Earthpower © Kevin's Watch