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Was SRD aware of the Insequent before the Last Chronicles?
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:06 pm    Post subject: Was SRD aware of the Insequent before the Last Chronicles? Reply with quote

Reading Fatal Revenant, we become aware that the Insequent have played an integral role in the history of the Land. They are longtime rivals of the Elohim, the Theomach was actually ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol and a mentor to Berek, and the Vizard was the inspiration for the Bloodguard's Vow.

My question is, did SRD just make these guys up when writing these Chronicles? Or did he always have it in his head that there was an entirely new race, a kind of ace in the hole that would explain some unanswered questions about the Land's past?

It's a little bit too easy, almost like JK Rowling's use of random magical objects in the last Potter book. Much has been made in these threads of how the Insequent are sort of deus ex machina-esque. I sort of agree. Nevertheless, I liked the Theomach a lot, and the Harrow will play an interesting role, no doubt.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Always wondered where SRD got the ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol or at least the name. I don't remember if that name came up first in the 2nd or the 1st Chronicles. (well at least the second one). But he must have had some bases for the name and what it was.

I also believe I read that he wanted to complete the Chronicles over 20 years ago but decided to write other books.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought the same thing about the name. But there are a lot of random names in the Chronicles. When Kenaustin Ardenol was first mentioned, I'm not convinced Donaldson had in mind the Insequent as a whole.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I searched back to a thread..
One where Fist and Faith wrote in May 2003.

Little did F&F know.. but he may had an insight.

Fist and Faith wrote:
Oh! How I love Amok!!! One of my top few favorite characters in TCTC, or anywhere else! So much shouldn't, I suppose, be said about him in this installment, so I'll just keep quiet.

But wouldn't it be SO awesome to see him hanging with a Forestal or the Elohim?!?! In no time, they'd be trying to kill him out of frustration. Throwing blasts at him, trying to hold him in various traps. And him laughing the whole time, "Your embrace, fair Infelice, seems less inviting than one would hope! hee hee hee" ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol himself would be grinning at the sight!


From:
Dissecting The Land
The Illearth War: Chapters 7 & 8
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I definitely have the feeling that this is a new race for Last Chronicles.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dlbpharmd wrote:
I definitely have the feeling that this is a new race for Last Chronicles.


I agree, which in itself is not annoying - after all the Elohim and Bhrathair were new races in the Second Chronicles.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thranathiril wrote:
dlbpharmd wrote:
I definitely have the feeling that this is a new race for Last Chronicles.


I agree, which in itself is not annoying - after all the Elohim and Bhrathair were new races in the Second Chronicles.

Thranathiril


However, we had references to both races in 1st Chronicles. There are no references to the Insequent prior to FR.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exactly.

For a series that's supposed to be the culmination of the Land and its history, it frankly annoys me that a whole new race of beings is thrown into the mix.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dlbpharmd wrote:
thranathiril wrote:
dlbpharmd wrote:
I definitely have the feeling that this is a new race for Last Chronicles.


I agree, which in itself is not annoying - after all the Elohim and Bhrathair were new races in the Second Chronicles.

Thranathiril


However, we had references to both races in 1st Chronicles. There are no references to the Insequent prior to FR.


Erk - really? I had forgotten that.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having a new race in an of itself is not a problem IMO. Indeed, think about how diverse our own world is. There are reasons not to like the Insequent, but the fact that they are new isn't one of them in my view. I wish we'd seen more new things, not less.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, SRD has said in the GI that when he wrote the First Chronicles, he wasn't thinking of any sequels. It was only after Lester Del Rey kept pestering him with apparently horrible ideas for a sequel that SRD says he conceived of the ideas for both the Second and Last Chronicles at the same time. When writing the Second Chrons, he was able to fortuitously take advantage of some details he had tossed off in the First Chrons. He also said that when writing the Second Chrons, he dropped in details that would enable him to write the Last Chrons, if he ever got around to writing them.

So it is probable that SRD didn't think of the Insequent when writing the original series, but he may have had them in mind when writing the second. If we never learn more about the Insequent than what is in FR, then yeah, to me they would also seem to be a sort of deus ex machina. But I think SRD's a better writer than that. There are two books to go, I'm curious to see how SRD will use them.

Edit: fixed grammar
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, I loved the revealing of the insequent. I like new stuff. Honestly though, I think he had them planned while writing the second chrons.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed CJ.. but SRD has an out. Blame it on the Haruchai! Shocked
I mean they seem to know alot of history and lays of the Lands, but they do not divulge that information unless they are pressed for it.

The name of the seventh ward.. Power of Command from TIW.
The long memories they have of their own history just recently made known.

What other lands were to the east of Guards Gap or the Westron Mountains?
Did they travel south or southeast before coming to the Land?
And the name of Kenaustin Ardenol honored before their meeting with Kevin?
With mental telepathy they posses, they are able to precisely retell their tales with the finest details.
What other information they know they never told or offered?

What made the Bloodguard/Haruchai so appealing in the Chronicles wasn't what were learned about them, it was what they never freely informed those who thought they knew them. They were a wonder.

With their self appionted status as Masters, I'm beginning to wonder if SRD isn't setting them up for a greater fall then the corruption of their Bloodguard Vow.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's perfectly reasonable to have someone living on the other side of the Haruchai; it's just that I don't like the Insequent so far. (What, a whole race of people with individual superpowers? One of them strong enough to blast a whole army of Demondim to nothingness? It just doesn't feel right.)
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, each Insequent has different powers. The harrow studied the demondim in order to understand them and in the knowledge he found was the knowledge of how to unmake them. They were, after all, manufactured creatures, not natural born. However, the Theomach and the Mahdoubt would have been unable to accomplish the unmaking of the demondim.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also got the feeling the the Insequent were a limited group, not an entire race. 'Cause otherwise, tonyz would be right. Thousands of people with the type of powers we've seen from the Theomach, Mahdoubt and Harrow wouldn't fit, for me.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really the Insequent don't have any powers, just the hunger for knowledge their entire race has in common.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:59 am    Post subject: Order in the Court! Reply with quote

Vain19 wrote:
Really the Insequent don't have any powers, just the hunger for knowledge their entire race has in common.


AH! and there it is..My angle on this issue of the Insequence beinf deux ex machina ..is that alot of folks are demonstrating their knowledge of Latin..woop!...Its Olde English they should be focusing on..Anyway,,From the perspective that everything in the Land has semi or quasi or both ,representatives in the Real world, it is fully understandable that Donaldson conceived of the outline or rough idea during 2nd Chronicles..imho,, the Insequent are an exaggerated and slightly distorted representation of ...Lawyers...maybe even more specific,,Divorce Lawyers( mahdoubt and Harrow), as V19 points out what Donaldson qualifies them as..seekers of knowledge..a freekin Lawyer!..One could say,, yeaa, but what about teachers or professors or scientistist...uummm..but what do they have to do with a parent in a custody battle over their child?.. Of course there is more to Last Chron than that aspect. Knowledge,,alone, and its accumulation over Time, is perhaps the bigger issue or picture. Its just so interesting how the Insequent are tied into all the various " Lore",,much like there are all kinds of lawyers....so who be The Judge in this Fantasy courtroom?..How about the Elohim?..non careing of one side or another, only caring about being Just,,??
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ur Dead wrote:
Agreed CJ.. but SRD has an out. Blame it on the Haruchai! Shocked
I mean they seem to know alot of history and lays of the Lands, but they do not divulge that information unless they are pressed for it.

The name of the seventh ward.. Power of Command from TIW.
The long memories they have of their own history just recently made known.

What other lands were to the east of Guards Gap or the Westron Mountains?
Did they travel south or southeast before coming to the Land?
And the name of Kenaustin Ardenol honored before their meeting with Kevin?
With mental telepathy they posses, they are able to precisely retell their tales with the finest details.
What other information they know they never told or offered?

What made the Bloodguard/Haruchai so appealing in the Chronicles wasn't what were learned about them, it was what they never freely informed those who thought they knew them. They were a wonder.

With their self appionted status as Masters, I'm beginning to wonder if SRD isn't setting them up for a greater fall then the corruption of their Bloodguard Vow.



i'm with you there ur-dead. good post.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:


With their self appionted status as Masters, I'm beginning to wonder if SRD isn't setting them up for a greater fall then the corruption of their Bloodguard Vow.


Seems to me ,,while the actual " fall" hasn't been executed.(unless Stave's mental reading of their thoughts and blocking his from being read is considered the "fall" or defeat).the set up is already well in place..They have denied choice..having ' choice" is a freedom..no choice = no freedom...Linden has already given them a tongue lashing for their God like arrogance,,,yet as predictable as the " fall" may be..I wonder if Linden will be instrumental in preventing or cushioning the " fall".(..the healing of Stave already approaches the conumdrum of the Honor Bound Haruchai,,The other Three guardian Haruchai heal on their own along with being in Andelain and some time..).There is a time and place for the Stoic.
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