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The Vow of the Bloodguard
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Rau Le Creuset
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:59 pm    Post subject: The Vow of the Bloodguard Reply with quote

Whilst reading the today I stumbled upon an idea. I don't remember an exact point where SRD explains in what way this vow was created, they had vague explanations of why but never how. I was wondering if the Vow of the Bloodguard could have been made possible by ones use of the Earth Blood, possibly by one of the original Haruchai. I can't really think of another way this could have been possible. I seem to remember someone saying that it was earth power that made this Vow possible and isn't the Earth blood kind of like the stem cells of Earth power? as in using the earth blood invokes the use of pure earth power. This is just my idea what do you guys think? and if it mentioned in the book that they did use earth blood I guess iv just made myself look like a fool again... it happens.... alot. So yeah, what do you guys think?

I apologize in advance if this is a complete waste of the minute it took to you to read it. you will never get that minute back.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I remember correctly, the Vow was formed when the original contingent of 500 Haruchai came to Revelstone to challenge the occupants with battle. Lord Kevin met them, declined to fight in any way, and basically threw the gates open to them. After a few days of the hospitality of the Land, the Haruchai were so deeply impressed that they swore fealty to Kevin and the other Lords. The resonance between the passion that moved them to this oath and Earthpower is what created the Vow, enabling their millenia of sleepless, mate-less and (apart from violent ends) deathless service.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SD is right, I think that it's in Gilden-Fire that we get a real sense of how the Vow was sealed by Earthpower. In response to the beauty of the Land, the Giants, the Old Lords, and Kevin's gifts to them, the Haruchai swear the Vow for the first time, and as they swear it Earthpower responds by coming to the surface of the Earth and sealing the Bloodguard to the Vow.

If you have a copy of Gilden-Fire I think you'll find it there. If you don't get a copy, it's great!

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's very interesting.. the earth power responds to the Haruchai kind of like it did to Berek in the old times? I always thought it would be cool if the leader of the blood guard went with kevin to the earth chamber... that woulda been cool.. I believe in the illearth war it does mention that the Haruchai knew somethings about kevins last ward and Amok


damn, I really do need a copy of gilden-fire..
ebay beware, I am coming.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no record of Kevin ever visiting Skyweir. He learned of the Earthblood from his grandfather, Damelon, who set the forbidding bearing that Lord's name that protects the path to the cavern from intrusion. While he made the power inherent in Earthblood his Seventh Ward, he never tried to use it himself.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I think it's fairly clear when Covenant is questioning Bannor at Skyweir in TIW that no Bloodguard (or Haruchai) has ever been there before. It is implied that they heard talk of Earthblood from the Old Lords (maybe when Kevin was making his Seven Wards).

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the significant thing [or at least a significant thing] here is the already elevated [extreme, uncompromising - call it what you will] nature of the Haruchai. Had the Earthpower not 'risen' in the way that it did to create the sleepless, unaging, undying Bloogguard, then the Haruchai Vow would still have been as binding, as uncapable of compromise, as binding unto the point of death, as it was anyway. The effect of the Earthpower was an answer to the Haruchai extremity, a gift if you like [possibly one that they could have done without allbeit] and just added time to the length of service but little else. The nature of the service was entierly Haruchai and not formed by Earthpower. They swore endless service. To the Haruchai to be thwarted by death was no dishonour, and if they could have continued to serve beyond death they would have done so. Earthblood merely enabled them to do [perhaps wrongly] what they would have done if they could anyway.

[God how I wish we had met the Haruchai women!]
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

peter wrote:
They swore endless service. To the Haruchai to be thwarted by death was no dishonour, and if they could have continued to serve beyond death they would have done so. Earthblood merely enabled them to do [perhaps wrongly] what they would have done if they could anyway.

[God how I wish we had met the Haruchai women!]


On the first part...I think you are dead on target.
They would have come as close as they could to what the Vow/Earthpower enabled.
You actually make a pretty good general point, intended or not:
It is a fundamental attribute of Earthpower that it enables what the weilder wants/wills. That's why passion matters so much...and despair always a danger.

On the last thing, though: I suspect that, with the thoughts about Har. women I sense you having that no, you would NOT want to meet them. [unless you were a Har, too]...they would hurt you. A lot.
Laughing
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes the point about the response of Earthpower being almost tailored to the particular being in question did occur to me as I was making the post. The Haruchai are however somehow 'beings of Earthpower' already, in a way that the denizens of the Land [ie Stonedowners, Woodhelvenin and even Ramen to a point] are not. I don't know why this should be, if it is correct, or if it is just me that sees them as so, but whatever the case may be, it does seem to 'fit' with the response of Earthpower to the Vow.

[And what about the Giants - they sort of are beings of Earthpower - but then not so in other ways. It's actually quite difficult to reconcile the various 'types' we encounter in the first Chrons.]

Laughing V. - I don't know what kind of 'thoughts' you thought I was having about the Haruchai women, but I can at least asure you of the kind of thoughts they were not! I really am not that brave! No - I just feel [as I have said elsewhere before] the Haruchai were such a literary creation beyond comparison that there is no aspect of their culture and lives that I am not avid to hear about. [Of course if they are 'lush' then I'm not above hearing about that too Embarassed Wink ]
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

peter wrote:
I don't know why this should be, if it is correct, or if it is just me that sees them as so, but whatever the case may be, it does seem to 'fit' with the response of Earthpower to the Vow.


It's not just you that sees them that way.
I'm pretty sure it is directly mentioned in the text somewhere that they have a connection with Earthpower [and it is definitely strongly implied several times/ways]...even if not directly partaking of Earthpower, their nature seems a ready and open conduit for it...like a lightning rod in the midst of a storm.
The whole species/Earthpower thing IS tangled. There's the Elo way, and the Rany way, and the Giants way, and the Sandies way...and the Forestals way?. Some are just by being what they are, some are acquired through Lore [though once the Lore is begun, they seem to "fuse" with it in a way]...

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like peters thought of the Haruchai being somewhat beings of earthpower, they are unnaturally strong, they seem to heal at an alarming rate, they even have telecommunication! They are most definatly different in some ways and I don't think that just living in mountains made them that way.

yes, assuredly so.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peter, we are not fooled. You have ever been clear about "every man over 40 is a scoundrel." You might not be foolhardy enough to pursue a lass of the Haruchai, but I certainly don't think (being a proven scoundrel myself) that you wouldn't have any thoughts.

Seriously, though, I join you in wishing that SRD had brought the story of these strong-limbed and hot-blooded females into his world-building as more than passing references. Haruchai male dispassion simply screamed to be counterbalanced by the passion he hinted at on the distaff side.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SD, stop teasing peter like that! Knowing his lascivious nature just mentioning 'ass' (in 'lass') and 'staff' (in 'distaff') in the same post as Haruchai women is likely to have the poor guy foaming at the mouth Laughing


peter wrote:
The Haruchai are however somehow 'beings of Earthpower' already, in a way that the denizens of the Land [ie Stonedowners, Woodhelvenin and even Ramen to a point] are not.

I have never thought of the Haruchai as beings of Earthpower.Spoiler:
It didn't really arise until the Last Chrons and seemed somehow connected with the whole Masters thing.
Yes, they seemed to recover and heal quickly but in the 1st Chrons I always put that down to the Vow (sealed and sustained by Earthpower). In the 2nd, I put their hardiness down to their harsh mountain existence (call it natural slection if you like!).

Spoiler:
There definitely does seem to be something distinctly different about the way SRD has treated them in the Last Chrons (and that may be another reason why I find the books so off-putting Confused ). It's almost as if their base material has been transmuted in some way. I would never have seen them as any different from ordinary people in the Land, especially since they eschewed lore.
I always saw their incredible strength and resilience as the result of extreme/harsh military discipline (a bit like the Spartans) rather than some extension of Earthpower.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Always, ALWAYS (at least for the next few months) spoil tag any and all references to the Last Chronicles! Whip

Wasn't really bad, or even spoilerish... just getting people use to the idea of not talking about the Last Chronicles when the Last Dark comes out... that, and I'm bored Razz
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing It appears I'm not the only one foaming at the mouth here U. Yes - it occured to me too that in but a few short weeks time the central reading event of my whole adult life will be brought to a close. Will these halls ring with the sound of my lonesome footsteps - somehow I suspect not.

I suppose the Ramen might refer to the Haruchai women as 'Tail of the Mountains' Big Grin

Another thing here [weak atempt at returning to topic here] is that I don't ever see the Bloodguard/Haruchai ever 'deighning' to stoop to the use of Earthpower as actively as drinking the 'Blood' would demand. The H. are so up themselves in their absolute belief in their capability of meeting any and every demand, that to actually solicit the help of Earthpower would, to them be as anathema as the use of weapons in fighting. That 'earthpowerliness' that I see in them is in the essence of their being - not something they have actively sought.
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'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'

We are the Bloodguard
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orlion wrote:
Always, ALWAYS (at least for the next few months) spoil tag any and all references to the Last Chronicles! Whip

Embarassed

Completely forgot that we weren't in the Last Chrons forum.

When I saw the post first I thought that you were winding peter even further up and that this is how the Haruchai women would treat him if he were ever to meet them* Laughing

u.

* I have a feeling he'd rather enjoy it Big Grin
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The same thought actually crossed my mind U. Laughing

[How well you know me by the way Wink ]
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....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
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We are the Bloodguard
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

peter wrote:
That 'earthpowerliness' that I see in them is in the essence of their being - not something they have actively sought.

Yes.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the Gradual Interview, Stephen R Donaldson wrote:
The Haruchai are magical--or magic-ful--people in the same sense that the Ranyhyn are magical horses.

(11/30/2006)

The Ranyhyn are mortal horses embued with a certain amount of Earthpower as part of their essential nature. (In this respect, they are more analogous to the Haruchai than to the Elohim.)

(02/15/2007)

There is Earthpower in the very nature of the Haruchai, as there is in the essence of the Giants.

(12/05/2007)

Characters like the Haruchai and the Giants and Anele, who are all in some sense inherently magical, live considerably longer than what we might consider “normal” for mortal beings.

(05/23/2008)

Like the Ranyhyn, if in an entirely different form, the Haruchai are Earthpowerful beings. Hence their great strength, their longevity, and their immunity to Kevin's Dirt.

(05/20/2009)

(Hmmm.... is it any wonder why the Haruchai were the perfect "food" for the Sunbane? Imagine if the Clave had the Ranyhyn ... :shudder:)
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting quotes, wayfriend. I honestly never got that sense. Okay, the Giants have qualities related to fire and stone (e.g Pitchwife's pitch), but I always associated that with their essential nature rather than some direct link with Earthpower. Anything 'magical', like their ability with languages, was as a result of the Elohim.

The Ranyhyn are a different story and were clearly 'magical' from the start. I'm not really convinced that the story backs it up either. Bannor changes I significantly after the Vow is broken and I didn't pick up anything real indication that suggested he was any more or less human than an ordinary inhabitant of the Land.

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