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No Scientific Proof of the Efficacy of Prayer
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rus -- would you please comment on the below?


Doar wrote:
Fist and Faith wrote:
Well, in any case, I think it's interesting that those who knew they were being prayed for did worse. Laughing

Also, I think it's odd to test the power of prayer with something that was going to happen anyway. Even if we do define a miracle as something that happens 1 in 1,000,000 times (and I'm entirely in Malik's court on that), getting better from this surgery is not a miracle. They didn't say how many people in any of the three groups died from complications, but I'm sure the percentage of those who recovered is better than 1/1,000,000.


This was my whole point earlier, why pray?

God has a plan, as Christians are want to say. If something good happens, or what they preayed for comes true, they say "Praise God! He answered my prayers." If something bad happens, or they didnt get what they prayed for, God still comes out smelling like a rose, because they say "God works in mysterious ways" or "What you ask for may not be what you get" or some other similar sentiment.

SInce God has a plan, and is obvious about keeping to it, then I offer a conundrum: If you pray for something that is in His plan, its gonna happen anyway. If you pray for something not in his plan, you dont get it, or you get something else, presumable something that is in his plan.

Either way, God is sticking to his plan, and your prayer didnt affect the outcome either way. Therefore, it made no difference. Why Pray?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doar wrote:
Rus -- would you please comment on the below?


Doar wrote:
Fist and Faith wrote:
Well, in any case, I think it's interesting that those who knew they were being prayed for did worse. Laughing

Also, I think it's odd to test the power of prayer with something that was going to happen anyway. Even if we do define a miracle as something that happens 1 in 1,000,000 times (and I'm entirely in Malik's court on that), getting better from this surgery is not a miracle. They didn't say how many people in any of the three groups died from complications, but I'm sure the percentage of those who recovered is better than 1/1,000,000.


This was my whole point earlier, why pray?

God has a plan, as Christians are want to say. If something good happens, or what they preayed for comes true, they say "Praise God! He answered my prayers." If something bad happens, or they didnt get what they prayed for, God still comes out smelling like a rose, because they say "God works in mysterious ways" or "What you ask for may not be what you get" or some other similar sentiment.

SInce God has a plan, and is obvious about keeping to it, then I offer a conundrum: If you pray for something that is in His plan, its gonna happen anyway. If you pray for something not in his plan, you dont get it, or you get something else, presumable something that is in his plan.

Either way, God is sticking to his plan, and your prayer didnt affect the outcome either way. Therefore, it made no difference. Why Pray?

There is an element here that I would agree with, although it is too simplistic. In general, the model that would present a more comprehensible picture would be one where things happen naturally, where the free will of all creatures collide and events as we understand them result. The gift God gives us, is that in the events outside of free will He can, from time to time, insert miracle, an event from outside of nature that circumvents the internal laws. The gift is in allowing our prayers to act as a variable that can influence, or nudge natural events in the direction that we are praying for, IF it is something that He would allow. Parents can adjust outcomes for their children in a similar way. This explains both nature and a purpose in prayer.
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Last edited by rusmeister on Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
There is an element here that I would agree with, although it is too simplistic. In general, the model that would present a more comprehensible picture would be one where things happen naturally, where the free will of all creatures sollide and events as we understand them result. The gift God gives us, is that in the events outside of free will He can, from time to time, insert miracle, an event from outside of nature that circumvents the internal laws. The gift is in allowing our prayers to act as a variable that can influence, or nudge natural events in the direction that we are praying for, IF it is something that He would allow. Parents can adjust outcomes for their children in a similar way. This explains both nature and a purpose in prayer.


thanks for your comments/answers Rus!
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