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The Power That Preserves, Chapter 11: Ritual of Desecration
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 3:21 pm    Post subject: The Power That Preserves, Chapter 11: Ritual of Desecration Reply with quote

POWER

When last we left the brave defenders of Revelstone, they were under attack from a creeping doom unleashed by Satansfist. An infection of despair flowed into the Keep. There watching alone from the watchtower, Mhoram wrestled within himself:
Quote:
Then he could hardly master the passion of his futility, the passion which urged him to strike at his friends because it blamed him for failing the Land. A wild hopelessness moved in him, shouldered its way toward the front of his responses. And he alone of all the Lords knew how to make such hopelessness bear fruit.

But the High Lord remembered himself and his purpose. First the Keep must be freed of this virulent misery. Calling the Gravelingases together, Mhoram utters the true secret of his power:
Quote:
"We have mistaken our purpose. The Land does not live for us--we live for the Land. Gravelingases, you must turn your lore to the defense of the stone."

We live for the Land. The despair of its defenders should not destroy it.
Perhaps Mhoram was not the only one in Revelstone who needed such might. He who had suffered most in the Land, real or imagined, at the hands of Thomas Covenant, sought such authority:
Quote:
The roaming of Trell's eyes had an insatiable cast, as if they were going blind... Then, without hesitation, he became urgent. "High Lord, tell me your secret."
Mhoram was taken aback. "My secret?"
"It is a secret of power. I must have power."
"For what purpose?"

Revelstone was recovering due to the strength unleashed by the gravelingases. Earthpower was fighting the ill sent by Satansfist:
Quote:
"Do you feel it?"
Amatin nodded with tears in her eyes. Trevor grinned.
A change was taking place under their feet.
It was a small change, almost subliminal. Yet soon even the Hirebrands could feel it. Without either heat or light, it warmed and lit their hearts.

Revelstone would not yet fall to despair. A great feast was prepared and their strength surged. They looked into the eyes of Despair and it flinched:
Quote:
More and more people came, drawn by the music, and the Lords, and the reaffirmation of Revelstone's granite. Supporting each other, carrying their children, dragging their friends, they fought their fear and came because the deepest impulses of their hearts respodned to food, music, rillinlure, rock-- to the Lords and the life of Revelstone.

Despite their victory within, the defenders of the Land still faced a great army outside. Time passed as the Giant-Raver and his troops restored themselves and prepared for another assault. It would prove to be a terrible attack indeed. Satansfist resurrected the ancient dead to assail Revelstone as he had against Revelwood. Against such a force, the Lords and Gravelingases could not hold and the great tower of Revelstone was lost.
Mhoram and Trevor spoke about these forces massed against Lords Keep and glimpsed a terrible premontion of both the present and future.
Quote:
"I have felt it. Lord Foul holds the Staff of Law."

Something else was wrong but this ill came from within Revelstone and it was not the work of any Raver. The anguish of Trell was great:
Quote:
"While we watched over him from the doors, he wept and prayed, begging. High Lord, it is in my heart that he begged for peace. But he found no peace.

Trell broke his Oath of Peace and resigned himself to utter despondency. But from that he unleashed the power he sought from Mhoram:
Quote:
Hot waves of desecration radiated in all directions from the council chamber...
An inferno raged within it. Floor, tables, seats--all burned madly, spouted roaring flames like a convulsion of thunder. Heat scorched Mhoram's face, crisped his hair. He had to blink tears away before he could peer down through the conflagration to its center.
There Trell stood in the in the graveling pit like the core of a holocaust, bursting with flames and hurling great gouts of fire at the ceiling with both fists. His whole form blazed like incarnated damnation, white-hot torment striking out at the stone it loved and could not save.
The sheer power of it staggered Mhoram. He was looking at the onset of a Ritual of Desecration. Trell had found in his own despair the secret which Mhoram had guarded so fearfully, and he was using that secret against Revelstone.

Mhoram and Tohrm aided by Amatin and then Loerya fought Trell's desecration. With Mhoram's new power, that which could destroy or preserve, he supported Torhm. The combined strength of the Lords would prove victorious. Secrets would be revealed and faith would shine in a stone.
Quote:
In its center, the gem of the krill blazed with a pure white fire, as radiant as hope...
[Mhoram] With his new might, he gripped the krill and pulled it easily from the stone... He turned to his companions with a smile that felt like a ray of sunshine on his face.
"Summon Lord Trevor," he said gladly. "I have--a knowledge of power that I wish to share with you."


Perhaps the New Lords have proven themselves greater than the Old Lords. Perhaps Mhoram surpassed Kevin. This chapter is both emotional and thought provoking. I only hope I have done it justice.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have indeed!! Smile Thanks!! That's a LOT of stuff to sum up in a relatively short space. Well done.

There aren't many moments of triumph anywhere that can compare with Mhoram pulling the krill out of the table. Easily!!

I can barely comment on Trell. Here's a man who causes this moment:
Quote:
Covenant got to his feet. Glancing at Lena, he saw her face twisted with unhappy obedience; she clearly wanted to go with them. But Trell also saw her expression and said, "Accompany our guest, Lena my daughter. I will not be too busy to care for the stoneware."

Pleasure transformed her instantly, and she leaped up to throw her arms around her father's neck. He returned her embrace for a moment, then lowered her to the floor. She straightened her shift, trying to look suddenly demure, and moved to her mother's side.
And now to see him so entirely lost to himself. I can barely take it.

(But, MAN, he was rockin' the joint!!)
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
For four days and four nights, High Lord Mhoram did not leave his post. He rested and ate to sustain himself, but he stayed at his station by the refectory wall. After a time, he hardly saw or heard the people moving around him. He concentrated on the stone, wrought himself to the pitch of Revelstone, to the pulse of its existence and the battle for possession of its life rock. He saw as clearly as if he were standing on the watchtower that Satansfist's livid power oozed close to the outer walls and then halted - hung poised while the Keep struggled against it. He heard the muffled groaning of the rock as it fought to remember itself. He felt the exhaustion of the Gravelingases. All these things he took into himself, and against the Despiser's wrong he placed his unbreaking will.

And he won.


Quote:
Running from the east toward Revelstone was a rift of the clouds, a break that stretched out to the north and south as far as Mhoram could see. The rift appeared wide, assertive, but the clouds behind it were as impenetrable as ever.

It was so clearly visible because through it streamed light as green as the frozen essence of emerald.

Its brightness made it seem swift, but it moved like a slow, ineluctable tide across the ice-blasted fields beyond the foothills. Its green, radiant swath swept like a blaze of wrong over the ground, igniting invisible contours into brilliance and then quenching them again. Mhoram watched it in stunned silence as it lit the Raver's army and rushed on into the foothills of the plateau. Like a tsunami of malignant scorn, it rolled upward and broke across the Keep.

People screamed when they saw the full emerald moon leering evilly at them through the rift. The High Lord himself flinched, raised his staff as if to ward off a nightmare. For a horrific moment while the rift moved, Lord Foul's moon dominated the clear, starless abysm of the sky like an incurable wound, a maiming of the very Law of the heavens. Emerald radiance covered everything, drowned every heart and drenched Revelstone's every upraised rock in thetic, green defeat.

Then the rift passed; sick light slid away into the west. Lord's Keep sank like a broken sea-cliff into irreparable night.

"Melenkurion!" Quaan panted as if he were suffocating. "Melenkurion!"


Quote:
There Trell stoof in the graveling pit like the core of a holocaust, bursting with flames and hurling great gouts of fire at the ceiling with both fists. His whole form blazed like incarnated damnation, white-hot torment striking out at the stone it loved and could not save.

The sheer power of it staggered Mhoram. He was looking at the onset of a Ritual of Desecration. Trell had found in his own despair the secret which Mhoram had guarded so fearfully, and he was using that secret against Revelstone. If he were not stopped, the gates would only be the first part of the Keep to break, the first and last link in a chain of destruction which might tear the whole plateau to rubble.

He had to be stopped.


Quote:
Then something at Mhoram's side caught her attention. Wonder lit her face, and she turned him so that he was looking at the table which held Loric's krill.

The table was intact.

In its center, the gem of the krill blazed with a pure white fire, as radiant as hope.

Mhoram heard someone say, "Ur-Lord Covenant has returned to the Land." But he could no longer tell what was happening around him. His tears seemed to blind all his senses.

Following the light of the gem, he reached out his hand and clasped the krill's haft. In its intense heat, he felt the truth of what he had heard. The Unbeliever had returned.

With his new might, he gripped the krill and pulled it easily from the stone. Its edges were so sharp that when he held the knife in his hand he could see their keenness. His power protected him from the heat.

He turned to his companions with a smile that felt like a ray of sunshine on his face.

"Summon Lord Trevor," he said gladly. "I have - a knowledge of power that I wish to share with you."


------------------

What more can I say?

~Foamy~


Last edited by Foamfollower1013 on Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not a thing Foamy Smile

Oh, I sure needed this chapter after the depression of the previous few! Mhoram is the Man Smile
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kinslaughterer, you did a great job! This is one of the best parts of the whole book. The resolution of Mhoram's personal struggle regarding the "knowledge of power" he had is wonderful!

I really don't have anyone to talk about this stuff with so some of my understanding of the book is kind of underdeveloped, I think. What do you guys think is the secret knowledge that Mhoram was afraid of - the knowledge of the Ritual of Desecration? I think it is passion - well, maybe passion is not the right word, but it is something akin to that. The Oath of Peace rendered the lords kind of impotent. I think Mhoram discovered that allowing himself to really feel strongly about something allowed him to tap into his power and use it!

You guys are probably all thinking, "Duh! Has she even read these books?" But I am kind of an empirical person (black and white - have to see to believe type person) so sometimes my intuition doesn't work very well!!
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, Kins... great work.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Acutally Lorien, I think he was more afraid of his despair. Despair is what drove Kevin to do it the first time. Mhoram was at the brink of during that seige of Revelstone. Yet, when he saw that Trell was destroying the Close, with his own version of the ROD, Mhoram realized that he could also use the power of the ritual to save, and not damn. Another paradox of power. Mhoram discovered the crux of the paradox.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lorien,
We've discussed the nature of the Oath of Peace at least a couple times since I've been at the Watch. Unfortunately, it's difficult to figure. Let me try to give a quick rundown of my feelings on it.

I can see little difference between the way Kevin behaved and the way those who took the Oath of Peace behaved. We don't know too much about Kevin, but we know a few things. For example, when an army of strangers called the Haruchai decided to take Revelstone by force, an army that had less than no chance, Kevin could have:
-Destroyed them
-Driven them off
-Demonstrated his immense power, in the hopes of scaring them off
-Ignored them

But, despite the fact that his later actions would inspire the Oath of Peace, he was a good, peace-loving man. His very first attempt to resolve the Haruchai siege? He "declined to wage war with [them] lest [they] be destroyed" and "gave to the Haruchai gifts so precious" (The Council of Lords - LFB) that the Vow was the only response the Haruchai could give. This was not a man who was quick to anger and violence. He was closer in time, and every other way, to Berek, and he surely demonstrated that he lived by Berek's Code:
Quote:
Do not hurt where holding is enough;
do not wound where hurting is enough;
do not maim where wounding is enough;
and kill not where maiming is enough;
the greatest warrior is he who does not need to kill.
He didn't hurt when he easily could have. He didn't even bully or intimidate. He welcomed war-like strangers, and helped them in every way he could.

IMO, the New Lords could not master Kevin's Lore because they were afraid. They were always worried about gaining too much power, and losing control, so they always held back. Kevin doesn't seem to have been any more prone to "all violent, destructive passions, all human instincts for murder and ravage and contempt" (Variol-son - TPTP) than the New Lords. I just think that every time they studied it or tried to use it, they held back. Possibly even consciously, maybe thinking things like, "I must pay close attention, and find the limits of where I could lose control of this."
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And so, knowing this, we come to realize just how profound Kevin's despair was at the end. All his Lore, all his understanding of the Earthpower, it was not enough to rid the Land of Lord Foul. He ultimately had no other answer, in his mind...destroy the Land and destroy Foul. And only at the end did he realize he was wrong, he died with Foul's laughter ringing in his ears.

Is it any wonder the New Lords feared such power? I remember in The Illearth War, Covenant asked Mhoram why the lords were "so bloody weak". And Mhoram replied...

Quote:
"Now, my friend, you know we have found the Second Ward. The Two conatin much knowledge and must power, and when they are mastered they will lead us to the Third Ward. In this way, mastery will guide us until all Kevin's Lore is ours. But we fail--we fail to penetrate. How can I say it? We translate the speech of the Old Lords. We learn the skills and rites and songs of the Lore. We study Peace, and devote ourselves to life of the Land. And yet somthing lacks. In some way, we miscomprehend--we do not suffice. Only a part of the power of this knowledge answers to our touch. We can learn nothing of the other Wards--and little of the Seven Words which evoke the Earthpower. Somthing--ur-Lord, it is something in us which fails. I feel it in my heart. We lack. We have not the stature of mastery."


I think what it was that prevented them from penetrating Kevin's Lore, was fear. Deep ingrown fear. "If we know how to do this, we could do what Kevin did." Would any of us what to hold the power of complete destruction in our hands? I know I wouldn't. This alone gives me insight into Covenant's pysche...he too held what was considered ultimate power. "Save or Damn"...in one word. No wonder the New Lords failed in mastering Kevin's Lore. No wonder Covenant resisted their pleas to "save" the Land.

But, in the Close, as Trell was destroying the stone he loved, Mhoram saw Kevin. And it was at that moment that he knew that the power of the RoD is a double edge blade, like the krill. He discovered the secret...and he mastered it.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2003 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Furls Fire wrote:
And so, knowing this, we come to realize just how profound Kevin's despair was at the end. All his Lore, all his understanding of the Earthpower, it was not enough to rid the Land of Lord Foul. He ultimately had no other answer, in his mind...destroy the Land and destroy Foul. And only at the end did he realize he was wrong, he died with Foul's laughter ringing in his ears.

I have earlier argued that the RoD could have been part of a cunning plan of Kevin's, although I know very well that this is not so. (We have heard from Kevin himself on occasion.)

Still I do not think that the Ritual of Desecration was an all bad idea. If it had worked it would have been the greatest victory in the Land's history, and even though it did not work it still hurt Foul badly enough to keep him away for millenia. If it had worked it would have been a "small" price to pay to rid the world of Foul (IMO), remember that the earthpower surely was powerful enough to heal the damage done by the ritual and Kevin probably knew this.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2003 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey! I'm one of the people you convinced, and now you're backing off??? Smile

I'm not so sure you weren't right in your arguments. I do not think that Kevin enacted the Ritual before he tried, or ruled out, every other possibility. I think he knew, absolutely, that any other course of action would have lead to Foul's victory. Foul would have become absolute master of the Land. At least this way, though the Land was devestated, it had the opportunity to regrow, and those who came later would be able to learn again.

Yes, I think Kevin felt extraordinary despair. He may, indeed, have hoped that Foul would die, and when he realized that was not to be, he would have despaired. But even if he had only hoped for what actually happened... Well, who doesn't despair when they have to have the beloved family dog put down, or when drastic measures have to be taken to fight a disease. Despair isn't surprising in Kevin's case, I just don't think he necessarily enacted the Ritual because of it.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2003 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ooooohhhhhhh! Thank you all for giving me your ideas. I like the idea that the power was a 'double edged sword'. Furl's Fire said:
Quote:
...Mhoram realized that he could also use the power of the ritual to save, and not damn. Another paradox of power. Mhoram discovered the crux of the paradox.


That makes a lot of sense. And the idea that they were afraid. That they were holding back something - failing to understand- because of their fear. I would love to write more but time does not permit!

Later!
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2003 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fist and Faith wrote:
... Despair isn't surprising in Kevin's case, I just don't think he necessarily enacted the Ritual because of it.


Oh I do. If he wasn't so utterly overwrought with despair why didn't he come to find the crux of the power of the RoD, as Mhoram did? Oh, yes I believe that it was despair that caused him to desecrate the Land. All his Lore? All that Earthpower? And he could find no other answer? It was despair. Despair over letting Foul into the council, despair over not being able to stop his treachery, despair over being duped. So much of it, it's a wonder he didn't drown in it. If he wasn't so despairing, I believe he would have found the other answer, the one Mhoram found.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2003 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're right, Kevin despaired long before he enacted the Ritual. But I will not believe that he thought, "I've been such a fool!! How could I not have seen that it was Foul standing beside me?! I can't bear it! I'm destroying everything, and I'm not going to look for another answer first!" Foul was a Lord. (I'll bet the Last Chronicles reveal that he was second only to Kevin.) He knew how they would fight him - their abilities and strategies. And I assume he Corrupted many people of great power, even some Lords, turning them against Kevin. And he had the Ravers working for him. And he was beyond any power Kevin had, even the Power of Command. By the time Kevin found out what was going on, it was far too late. There was no possibility of defeating Foul. I'm sure he tried, long and hard. But in the end, he knew that he would lose, and the Land would be Foul's to do with as he pleased.

Mhoram did not face the same foe. He did not find an answer to Foul, he only found a way to defeat a Giant-Raver with a fragment of the Illearth Stone, without falling into despair. With the tools and knowledge that Mhoram had to work with, that was a feat beyond belief. But I don't think that Kevin, with the Staff of Law and/or the krill, and the full knowledge of the first six Wards, would have had much of a problem in that battle. Mhoram did not have to face the foe who could not be touched by anything less than the Ritual of Desecration, and even then, couldn't be destroyed. Covenant took care of the ultimate problem, the problem that Kevin had no help against. Mhoram is one of my favorite characters of all literature, and I would not DREAM of taking any respect away from him. But he was operating on a different playing field than Kevin. If Covenant had never come to the Land, Foul would have defeated Mhoram. I do not believe Mhoram would have gone the Ritual route. I believe that, even if he found himself in Berek's position, he would have gone down fighting. And two thousand years later, instead of the situation being like it was at the beginning of LFB, Foul would have still been torturing the Land and every living being in it. But Mhoram never had to face that choice.

Truly, if you have a different view of any specific ideas of mine, I'd love to hear them! Smile
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2003 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, you made my point better then I could. It was the despair that clouded Kevin's sight from seeing the "alternative". I know Mhoram wasn't as distraught as Kevin. I know that Mhoram wasn't fighting Foul, not directly anyway. Kevin was blinded by his despair and was unable to see the alternative to the RoD. The one Mhoram found...it WAS there. I'm not saying he didn't look for other answers, I'm sure he did. I'm sure he tried everything he could possibly think of, all failing. Which, of course, would add to his despair. And I'm not saying he went sobbing to Mt Thunder thoughtlessly and enacted it blindly. I'm sure he thought it was his only choice. What I am saying is...his choice was made through his feeling of ultimate failure. He truly felt it was the ONLY answer.

There is one question that I will ask. If he wasn't despairing, if he wasn't reeling from failure upon failure...why would he ask Foul...his sworn enemy...to enact the Descreation with him? Does this sound like someone who is still rational? It doesn't to me.

Power is a double edged blade. And I really think, that if Kevin wasn't so deeply lost in failure. He would have found the other side of that blade and used it.

I think in essence we agree Fist, I know Kevin tried everything... everything...he could think of to rid the Land of Foul. And he was Great. He was High Lord. He created the Seven Wards of Power. He should KNOW what he is doing. But, he failed. Such profound failure too. Despair led to the Ritual of Descreation.

(this is fun...gets my mind really going) Smile
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2003 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not really clear about what you mean. What answer that Mhoram found would have given Kevin victory over Foul? You've said all of the following:
Furls Fire wrote:
Mhoram realized that he could also use the power of the ritual to save, and not damn. Another paradox of power. Mhoram discovered the crux of the paradox.
...
And it was at that moment that he knew that the power of the RoD is a double edge blade, like the krill. He discovered the secret...and he mastered it.
...
If he wasn't so despairing, I believe he would have found the other answer, the one Mhoram found.
...
And I really think, that if Kevin wasn't so deeply lost in failure. He would have found the other side of that blade and used it.
Can you be more specific? I know that these things can be hard to define, but I'm just not following you. Surely, you don't simply mean Mhoram realized that such incredible power can be used for the Land or against it, but Kevin only thought it could be used against?


I think there's something else to consider: The Power of Command. If Kevin's thinking was merely, "If I can't save the Land, I'll destroy it!" the PoC could have wiped it out of existence. But that wasn't his goal, so he didn't use it. If he wanted to destroy Foul, but knew that the PoC couldn't do it (Which he did know. Amok said Kevin knew. And even if he hadn't, Amok's knowledge was given to him by Kevin. The fact that Amok knew the PoC couldn't destroy or command Foul means that Kevin also knew it.), he could not have thought that a lesser manifestation of Earthpower, the Ritual, could.

Kevin did not use the PoC because he knew that it was impossible to forsee the consequences. He actually found a better solution. That doesn't sound like someone who's lost himself to despair.

Again, my argument is that Kevin, though wracked with guilt and despair, had not lost his rationality/sanity to it; that he was still thinking clearly, and that what he did was a considered plan. Many would disagree with the plan, just as many disagree with things like dropping atomic bombs on Japan. But the belief that he should have fought to his last breath, knowing the Land would suffer forever after he was dead, instead of taking the extreme measures that he took to give the Land any chance in the future is not evidence that he was no longer rational. Kevin likely couldn't wait to die in the Ritual, because, though he thought it was the best answer - the only alternative to giving the Land to Foul - he couldn't help but feel incredibly bad because of it. The despair over such an action would be beyond belief, even if you knew there was no other way.


As for Kevin asking Foul to enact the Ritual, Foul told Covenant (Just how reliable is Foul as a source of information? We also get juicy info from ravers.) that Kevin "dared" him. My assumption has always been that the place the Ritual is enacted is the place hardest hit. If so, then Kevin wanted Foul right there with him.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2003 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All good points. About the power of the Ritual, yes, that is exactly what I mean. I will try to explain my thinking.

First, there is Trell. Trell is in the Close. He has unleashed the power of the Ritual, he is going to destroy Revelstone, he is in complete despair, his Oath of Peace forgotten, he is going to destroy it himself, better that then let the Raver do it. Trell LOVES Revelstone, he is a Gravelingas of the rhadhamaerl. Yet, he sees no other answer, he has lost all hope that the Lords can hold the Keep. So, he stands in the middle of the graveling pit and unleashes the power of the RoD against the stone he loves.

Then, there is Mhoram. Mhoram has been holding the secret to the RoD inside himself. He knows the power and knows how to invoke it. Yet, Mhoram is still bound by his Oath of Peace and is afraid to tell anyone about the power he has discovered. The Ritual of Desecreation destroys. But, then as he sees Trell unleashing it's power against Revelstone, literally melting the Close, he realizes that the power of the RoD doesn't necessarily just destroy. He searches his heart, searches the Oath of Peace, searches for an answer to the power. "Save or Damn." The power doesn't HAVE to destroy. He discovers the paradox of the power. He invokes it and moves into the fire of Trell's rage and despair. Yet, Mhoram is not despairing. Mhoram finds the "other side" if you will of the RoD. The other "edge".

Then, we have Kevin. What I mean about Kevin is...he was more like Trell than he was Mhoram. Kevin never swore an Oath of Peace. Although I am sure that he treasured Peace above all else. He was powerful, very very powerful. All the Wards, the PoC, etc...I'm sure he tried everything he could think of to destory Foul. Yet, he failed. Okay...So there he is, in his failure. He's looking out over the Land being ravaged by Foul. He HAS to destroy Foul. Nothing suffices however, he's tried everything. He begins to despair. And comes to the conclusion that if he destroys the Land, he destroys Foul as well. The Ritual of Desecreation. But, he's despairing.

Okay, he has the power of the RoD in his hand. Yet, he sees it only as the power to destroy. I believe, that if he wasn't despairing at the time, he would have seen it as Mhoram saw it. He would have discovered the paradox that Mhoram did in the RoD. And maybe, he wouldn't have had to destroy the Land at all, and still would have defeated Foul.

LOL..I don't know if I'm making any sense. Maybe I'm just talking in circles. Not sure if I can explain my thoughts about it any better then that.

But, like you, I have thought about all the other powers that Kevin could have and probably did invoke to win against Foul. Yet, they all failed. Which is why I believe that when he decided to use the RoD he did it out of despair.

Peace,
Furls Smile
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~this world was never meant for one as beautiful as you~

...for then I could fly away and be at rest. Sweet rest, Mom. We all love and miss you.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2003 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As for talking in circles, that's what these debates usually come down to. Smile Even if we both understand where the other is coming from, I believe one way, you believe the other. But as long as I'm having fun, I don't mind the circles. Smile

So, I think maybe I understand what you mean. If I do, here's why I think you're wrong. (You didn't think I was done, did you? Smile) Mhoram faced a being that was certainly less powerful than Foul, but still had to use his "new might" violently. He knew how to make barriers, like they made in TIW. He could have made stronger barriers than any since Kevin's time. But he didn't. He used his strength to fry the s.o.b.

Kevin obviously knew of other applications of power besides offensive ones. He knew all about the defensive shields. The New Lords could barely make scrub grass grow, but you know Kevin could. He even used the Staff of Law like Star Trek's universal translator! Kevin was used to thinking of power a wide variety of ways. But, like Mhoram and Knute Rockne, he knew that the best defense is a good offense. No trickery or defense could win. The only way to beat Foul was to
Kick!
His!
... (well, you know)
And I doubt anything could pack a bigger whallop than the Ritual of Desecration.

I agree that Kevin was filled with despair. But I think it sounded more like this:
"NO! PLEASE DON'T LET THIS BE THE ONLY WAY!!"

than this:
"I've tried everything there is to try, but I can't stop him! WELL THEN I'LL DESTROY IT ALL! IF I CAN'T SAVE IT, I'LL DESTROY IT!!"
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2003 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fist and Faith wrote:
And I doubt anything could pack a bigger whallop than the Ritual of Desecration.

I agree that Kevin was filled with despair. But I think it sounded more like this:
"NO! PLEASE DON'T LET THIS BE THE ONLY WAY!!"

than this:
"I've tried everything there is to try, but I can't stop him! WELL THEN I'LL DESTROY IT ALL! IF I CAN'T SAVE IT, I'LL DESTROY IT!!"


I think it was a little bit of both actually. And I agree that nothing was more powerful than the RoD, except the white gold and wild magic of course. But, Kevin didn't have that.

And I know what Mhoram did was on a much smaller scale then what Kevin had to deal with. But, the power was the same, it was there, the secrets of it hadn't changed.

Anyway, if I've learned one thing during this little forray into Desecreation it's this: NEVER argue with a Bloodgaurd. Smile huggles Fist! This has been GREAT!!
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~this world was never meant for one as beautiful as you~

...for then I could fly away and be at rest. Sweet rest, Mom. We all love and miss you.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2003 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe the Ritual eventually makes the inhabitants stronger but it serves Foul's purposes just as well. It's also interesting because it almost defines Foul's sphere of influence. Perhaps everywhere where people survived is outside his proverbial "jail cell". These areas are also very barren and desolate..so what ever beauty arises within the 'cell' must be destroyed.

Kin and variol son You've both done very outstanding jobs. Thanks!
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